USSDA SoCal Division Data

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by scoachd1, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    I got a little bored with discussions where there is virtually no data to support or refute opinions one way or another and most of the people in the discussion have little to no first hand knowledge of the topic. So I decided to take a few hours to plop USSDA game data from my local region into and write a couple small programs to compile it. One game report was not turned in, one lacked 11 starters and a few others the minutes didn’t add up right, but overall the data seems pretty good.

    While there is probably nothing very earth shattering, I think data does show some very large differences in the way each academy program operates and may be of interest to people who are curious about the USSDA and some of the teams in it. If it seems worthwhile, I might add the MLS teams when the rest of the country starts playing more games.

    For starters here is a distribution of starts, roster sports (Teams nameup to 18 for each game), minutes and goals by age (as is listed in the game reports) for each of the U18 teams. This includes games through Feb 12. The teams point/game is listed in the lower left hand corner.

    Code:
    Galxy18	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    93	37	61	3484	27%	5
    94	89	135	7828	61%	19
    95	17	28	1547	12%	5
    96	0	0	0	0%	0
    2.46	143	224	12859	1	29
    Chivs18	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    93	28	55	2613	19%	8
    94	89	140	8029	58%	13
    95	37	54	3185	23%	21
    96	0	1	0	0%	0
    2.21	154	250	13827	1	42
    RSL18	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    93	47	70	4332	29%	17
    94	108	185	9717	65%	12
    95	10	12	801	5%	0
    96	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.27	165	267	14850	1	29
    Pats18	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    93	66	120	6218	45%	5
    94	88	117	7642	55%	19
    95	0	0	0	0%	0
    96	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.64	154	237	13860	1	24
    Arsen18	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    93	53	82	4950	33%	8
    94	103	169	9217	62%	12
    95	9	10	673	5%	1
    96	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.67	165	261	14840	1	21
    RSC18	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    93	22	52	2286	14%	8
    94	162	241	14362	85%	17
    95	3	7	270	2%	0
    96	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.53	187	300	16918	1	25
    Strik18	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    93	19	33	1510	11%	4
    94	110	186	10264	74%	13
    95	25	31	2098	15%	4
    96	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.14	154	250	13872	1	21
    Nomad18	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    93	61	76	5342	39%	8
    94	90	146	8184	59%	10
    95	2	15	249	2%	1
    96	1	1	90	1%	0
    0.71	154	238	13865	1	19
    Surf18	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    93	60	105	5276	33%	3
    94	116	177	10564	67%	14
    95	0	0	0	0%	0
    96	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.06	176	282	15840	1	17
    
     
  2. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Here is the U16 data:

    Code:
    Galxy16	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    95	104	159	8305	73%	30
    96	35	65	2768	24%	2
    97	3	7	269	2%	1
    98	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.85	142	231	11342	1	33
    Chivs16	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    95	84	116	6468	53%	15
    96	40	92	3553	29%	8
    97	21	28	1638	13%	8
    98	8	11	582	5%	1
    1.5	153	247	12241	1	32
    RSL16	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    95	158	227	12356	94%	24
    96	7	39	845	6%	6
    97	0	0	0	0%	0
    98	0	0	0	0%	0
    2.33	165	266	13201	1	30
    Pats16	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    95	107	169	8632	69%	13
    96	48	71	3831	31%	11
    97	0	0	0	0%	0
    98	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.5	155	240	12463	1	24
    Arsen16	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    95	158	252	12673	95%	41
    96	7	14	610	5%	3
    97	0	0	0	0%	0
    98	0	0	0	0%	0
    2.07	165	266	13283	1	44
    RSC16	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    95	163	256	12972	87%	23
    96	20	24	1503	10%	2
    97	4	14	466	3%	0
    98	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.35	187	294	14941	1	25
    Strik16	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    95	125	207	9929	81%	14
    96	29	42	2382	19%	2
    97	0	0	0	0%	0
    98	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.07	154	249	12311	1	16
    Nomad16	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    95	94	143	7440	65%	7
    96	49	87	3964	35%	3
    97	0	0	0	0%	0
    98	0	0	0	0%	0
    1.07	143	230	11404	1	10
    Surf16	Starts	Roster	Min	%	Goals
    95	142	234	11241	80%	24
    96	34	44	2839	20%	5
    97	0	0	0	0%	0
    98	0	0	0	0%	0
    2.00	176	278	14080	1	29
     
  3. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Thanks for the stats, scoachd1. Just a few random observations:

    For the U18s, Chivas USA has done the best job in getting minutes for '95s, but that shouldn't come as a surprise, as two of their best players, Marki Delgado and Ben Spencer, are '95s. RSC and Strikers have the fewest minutes for '93s. This is also not a surprise, as both clubs always have a disproportionate number of players from middle-class and upper middle-class backgrounds, and those players tend to finish high school and head off to college in greater %s.

    For the U16s, what caught my eye was RSL's giving 94% of the minutes to their '95s, and only 6% to '96s. This seems to run counter to the philosophy of other MLS DAs, including Chivas USA and the Galaxy. RSL seems intent on winning the So Cal Division and then making a big splash in the playoffs. They may be doing it for marketing/publicity reasons, to attract more out-of-town players to their isolated residency.

    Arsenal, as a non-MLS DA, is more predictably focused on winning, as only 5% of minutes have gone to '96s, and none to '97s. Kudos to Nomads and Pats, each with at least 30% of minutes going to '96s. Chivas USA has given the most minutes to '97s. As with their U18s, they have an outstanding young player in Jorgie Ruiz, a '97.
     
  4. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Re: USSDA SoCal Division Data - comments

    Here are the number of minutes for full-time players in a little under a half of a calendar year. The columns are Games, number of full time players, Ave minutes per player, Median number of minutes and the high and low for each team. If a player played on both the U16 and U18 team, the player is considered a U16 player and all the minutes are shown as part of the U16 team. If a U16 player played the entire time for the U18 team, then everything will be under the U18. Players on the roster who have not played are not counted in these totals.

    Code:
    Team      '	G	FT	Ave	Med	Hi 	lo
    GalaxyU18	13	24	471	421	957	135
    GalaxyU16	13	28	459	469	980	11
    ChivasU18	14	22	596	681	1289	51
    ChivasU16	14	25	500	492	1019	61
    RSLU18    '	15	22	617	615	1260	25
    RSLU16    '	15	24	578	513	1200	26
    PatsU18    '	14	22	626	513	1158	95
    PatsU16    '	14	20	621	652	1069	80
    ArsenalU18	15	23	614	571	1285	22
    ArsenalU16	15	23	607	589	1159	76
    RSCU18    '	16	23	716	638	1530	150
    RSCU16    '	16	19	793	783	1360	253
    StrikersU18	14	19	619	621	1260	15
    StrikersU16	14	21	670	702	1085	233
    NomadsU18	14	24	564	503	1260	8
    NomadsU16	13	23	511	341	1040	14
    SurfU18      '	16	24	660	510	1393	70
    SurfU16     '	16	19	741	700	1280	235
    
    Not to start further debate on the subject, this means that even the player who played the most minutes for the Galaxy U18 team played just a little over 10 full league games in about 24 weeks. When you consider these teams had 3 games bunched at the showcase in Florida and several other sets of games were two to a weekend due to required travel. These means if a kid was not in a game day line-up, he wouldn't be playing competitive games for a month. The reality is that this amount of games through the fall and winter season is not all that much different than the sparse college spring game schedule.
     
  5. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    I agree. The difference between Chivas USA U16s and Real Salt LakeU16s is pretty stark. When you consider Chivas also plays 97s and even 98s, the average Year of Birth for Chivas is actually 1996 for the year. What also was interesting to me was the large percentage of 95 on the Strikers u18s. Their U16 team is struggling and I'm sure the kids playing on the 18s can help them out.
     
  6. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Re: USSDA SoCal Division Data - comments

    Without getting into specifics, the Galaxy has more personnel issues going on than elsewhere. I guess they figure they can get away with this as they see themselves as the creme de la creme. I strongly suggest that any family considering going to the Galaxy should be aware of what they're doing. However, they do schedule non-DA scrimmages, perhaps more than other DAs, so I don't know how this impacts lesser-used players. On the other hand, RSC has done a pretty good job of distributing minutes.
     
  7. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Another interesting thing about the Chivas U16s is that with the exception of Pats, the Chivas 97's have more goals than every other teams 96s including the LA Galaxy's. They even have a 98 who scored a goal. Similarly Chivas 95s playing up on U18 have as many or more goals than almost half of the division.
     
  8. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Re: USSDA SoCal Division Data - comments

    Given the fact that they attract a lot of talented players it is likely people are going to be unhappy. When you add this type of schedule on top of it, the level of discontent is only going to get magnified. One of the things I'll probably put together is the number of drops for each team which will give some idea of the level of discontent.
     
  9. headerdunce

    headerdunce Member

    Dec 19, 2005
    Thanks for taking the time to compile this scoachd. It is very helpful and the data speak for themselves. Great job!
     
  10. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    I notice a definitive sample bias, an area bias, a few small yet significant collections errors, huge errors in your data analysis with misuse of mean, median, and mode errors, and a clear ulterior motive prior to data collection, and ignoring of other interpretative conclusions. There are other ways to look at the numbers than simply your single conclusion within the context of competitive soccer environment. The only way to measure discontent is to contact all 23 players directly. A player who has never played in a game may be very content in the free training and high competition, with the ability to improve and ultimately start every game next year. He may not want to pay for USYS team. Your correlation assumption that 'drop's correlate to discontent is incorrect. Be careful about your information bubble.
     
  11. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Mode errors. You are funny Dano.
     
  12. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Here is some information on goals for those who might be interested. Please be aware of possible sample bias, area bias, a few small yet significant collections errors, huge errors in data analysis with possible misuse of mean, median, and mode errors, and a possible ulterior motive prior to data collection.

    Code:
    Team	Player                   '	Year	Start	Min	Goal	Min/goal
    Galxy16	Villarreal, Jaime        '	95	10	768	13	59.1
    Arsnl16	Arriola, Paul            '	95	8	604	10	60.4
    Pats16	Pacheco, Brian           '	96	12	864	10	86.4
    chivs16	Lomeli, ROMARIO S        '	95	11	851	9	94.6
    Arsnl16	Garcia, Jose             '	95	15	1159	9	128.8
    chivs16	RUIZ, JORGE A            '	97	8	766	8	95.8
    RSL16	Navarro, Jose            '	95	13	1031	7	147.3
    Arsnl16	Gonzalez, Michael        '	95	7	504	6	84.0
    Galxy16	Dhillon, Justin          '	95	5	416	5	83.2
    RSL16	Pando, Dalton            '	96	4	467	5	93.4
    Surf16	Lopez, Benji             '	95	7	567	5	113.4
    RSL16	Brody, Andrew            '	95	14	1003	5	200.6
    Surf16	Kotselas, Kostas         '	95	5	451	4	112.8
    Arsnl16	Charles, Brian           '	95	4	518	4	129.5
    Galxy16	Ortiz, Mario             '	95	7	562	4	140.5
    Pats16	Torres, Brian            '	95	9	635	4	158.8
    namad16	Heine, Garrett           '	95	13	978	4	244.5
    Surf16	Turner, Michael          '	95	16	1265	4	316.3
    						
    Team	Player                   '	Year	Start	Min	Goal	Min/goal
    chivs18	Verso, MARK A            '	95	7	654	8	81.8
    Pats18	Casner, Robert "TJ"      '	94	12	996	8	124.5
    chivs18	RODRIGUEZ, ESTEBAN JR    '	94	13	1016	8	127.0
    RSC18	Manak, Manvir            '	93	6	638	7	91.1
    chivs18	Spencer, BEN Fritz       '	95	10	733	7	104.7
    chivs18	Delgado, MARCO ANTONIO   '	95	13	1170	6	195.0
    strkr18	Chasman, Matthew         '	94	10	752	5	150.4
    RSL18	Orrellana, Maikon        '	93	11	950	5	190.0
    Arsnl18	Enriquez, Jaime          '	94	10	1035	5	207.0
    RSL18	Salcedo, Carlos          '	93	12	1036	5	207.2
    Pats18	Escudero, Roberto        '	94	13	1158	5	231.6
    namad18	Gultoprak, Kaan Han      '	93	13	1182	5	236.4
    RSL18	Kelly, Dylan             '	94	4	501	4	125.3
    chivs18	Dheming, JOSE A          '	93	8	624	4	156.0
    strkr18	Stenberg, Jake Ryan      '	93	10	733	4	183.3
    strkr18	Jimenez, Jesus F         '	94	9	875	4	218.8
    Galxy18	Murphy, Drew             '	94	12	957	4	239.3
    Arsnl18	Gonzalez, Miguel A       '	94	11	973	4	243.3
    strkr18	Thierjung, Christian Ryan'	95	12	1005	4	251.3
    namad18	Carrillo, Manuel         '	94	13	1220	4	305.0
    Arsnl18	Camacho-Diaz, Nicolas    '	93	13	1249	4	312.3
    
    Very impressive performance by Jorge Ruiz who has 8 in just 766 minutes while essentially playing 2 year up. Also it is interesting that Chivas has 4 of the top 6 scorers at the U18 level and 3 of them are playing up. Chivas also has 2 of the top 6 scorers at the U16 level.
     
  13. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    One staple of discussions ranging from online places like bigsoccer to offline locations like your favorite bar is the relative quality of a league (Is MLS better than bottom level EPL etc.). Given that there is very little data know one really knows.

    For an extreme example, Chris Hernandez, the Academy player of the year played for the Union scored against Everton in a friendly last year. Obviously Everton plays at a higher level than does his academy, but how much so?

    One thing nice thing about the USSDA is that there is a lot of available data on goals and an increasing amount of interplay of its players at various levels. For example, 29 players in the California Division have played in both U16 and U18. So one way to compare leagues levels of play is to compare the goal scoring rates of players at various levels.

    Below is a table of players that have scored of the 15 players that have scored a goal at either of the U16 or U18 levels (doesn’t make much sense in adding minutes of goalkeepers or defenders that rarely score). As you can see, even with this small sample, we can see that it appears to be roughly 2.5 - 3 times harder to score at the U18 level than the U16 level.

    Code:
    [FONT="Courier New"]Team	Player                   	Yr	Min	Goal	Min/Gl	Min	Goal	Min/Gl
    RSL	Allen, Jordan            	95	703		N/A	304	3	101
    Arsenal	Arriola, Paul            	95	90		N/A	604	10	60
    Nomads	Benito, Edward           	95	46		N/A	537	1	537
    Pats	DELATORRE, Kevin         	95	87		N/A	385	2	193
    Galaxy	Dhillon, Justin          	95	474	2	237	416	5	83
    Galaxy	Espana, Angel Josue      	95	12		N/A	337	1	337
    RSL	Navarro, Jose            	95	90		N/A	1031	7	147
    Galaxy	Ortiz, Mario             	95	27		N/A	562	4	141
    Arsenal	Osorio, Misael           	95	428	1	428	399	1	399
    Galaxy	Raygoza, William         	95	748	3	249	160		N/A
    Nomads	Rivera, Salvador         	95	23	1	23	95		N/A
    Strikrs	Salcedo Borrego, Paul    	95	67		N/A	858	3	286
    Arsenal	Sanchez, Alejandro       	95	138		N/A	892	3	297
    Strikrs	Thierjung, Christian Ryan	95	1005	4	251	80	1	80
    Galaxy	Villarreal, Jaime        	95	86		N/A	768	13	59
            	Totals                	  	4024	11	366	7428	54	138
    [/FONT]
    Obviously there is the potential for any number of confounding factors such as more attacking oriented players from a lower level being moved to more defensive oriented positions on higher level team. Similarly if your data was limited to William Raygosa scoring plenty for the U18 Galaxy but none for the U16, you would falsely conclude that scoring at the U18 level is a lot easier than U16. But as the quantity of data from players playing in both leagues increases, clearer patterns of playing level will emerge.

    Furthermore players in the academy league such as Fagundez, Pfeffer, Leyva, Spencer all scored in MLS reserve games. Others such as Jack McBean of the Galaxy have played in them. If you get the minutes per game these players played, you can get an increasingly valid metric on the differences in scoring rates. So if anyone has data, it would be interesting to see.
     
  14. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    What do you mean I'm funny? Funny How? Like a clown. I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to amuse you! What is so funny about me. Tell me.
     
  15. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
  16. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Sorry, upon reflection I deleted the post. Anyway, I loved that scene, Joe.
     
  17. headerdunce

    headerdunce Member

    Dec 19, 2005
    The data show the extent of the Academy's failure to schedule enough games for its players. It's startling when you consider that these kids represent some of southern California's best players who played and practiced more when they were younger than they do now. No surprise that Pateadores won the Academy championship last year.
     
  18. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Over the 22 weeks from Sept 17th to the last game on Feb 17 there were 14 games and it seems as the stated ratio was a competitive game per week. Taking into account that they took off Thanksgiving, Xmas, and New Year weekends it does seem the schedule was a little thin having open 9 weekends because a few 2 games over a weekend occured. It looks like 3 games are scheduled for March and 4 each for April and May so that looks good. Before you jump to conclusions I would love for the DA to answer why. Instead of assuming they sat around lazily saying we're not gonna schedule alot of weekends this year ok?. Having 23 players on what is arguably the best youth team in the country talent wise explains why not all players will get 22 full games. Its simple math with 90 minute games 11 starters 7 available subs mostly mid to late game not all talented players will get that many full official games. Again you ignore all extenuating circumstances. They do schedule non-DA competitive games, If you look at the roster not all players are available each game and just sitting there. A few play often play with the first team, a few got games with U16s and are playing up, some went to Europe for training, and some have knocks and had moderately long term injuries; just like any soccer team. Very talented teams like Chelsea, Man City, etc have many talented players not getting games. There are solutions. Don't have 7 substitutes but I think that hurts development. Have a few less on the roster. But this makes the decision for the player and not having the player make the decision. If the player feels he is not getting enough competitive games he can work harder and get better or he can play with another team. Many players switch teams for these very reasons. Eric Gonzalez played with the Galaxy now plays with Chivas USA, Juan Cervantes plays for LA but his LA picture has him wearing a Pats Tshirt, and Abel Leon is wearing a Chivas Jersey. This is good for development. Players searching for better playing opportunities. You're only using one team or one conference and trying to make overriding conclusions based on a preconceived opinion. This is a legitimate issue but is minor considering all the advantages the DA brings to the table. You can ignore everything that contradicts your misuse of 'average' statistics when determining what is best overall training environment. The players by their actions will tell the DA and the DA will react. Not just the players you know but all of them nationwide. Now that they are in the midst of their first official 10 month playing season its common that issues arise and hopefully they can fix them quickly. So go ahead and cut a few more for a 18-20 player team and make sure they get official and unofficial top notch games. Its really not that complicated. I remember my parents drilling into me as a young child, instead of complaining about an issue go fix it.
     
  19. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    In order to fix something you need to understand the problem. Because if you don't the "fix" can actually make things worse. What we are doing is identifying problems because in this case, the "fix" has actually made things a lot worse for players in this area. Problems are actually a lot more complex than the single dimensional way which has characterized your view of player development throughout your posts.
     

Share This Page