I got a little bored with discussions where there is virtually no data to support or refute opinions one way or another and most of the people in the discussion have little to no first hand knowledge of the topic. So I decided to take a few hours to plop USSDA game data from my local region into and write a couple small programs to compile it. One game report was not turned in, one lacked 11 starters and a few others the minutes didn’t add up right, but overall the data seems pretty good. While there is probably nothing very earth shattering, I think data does show some very large differences in the way each academy program operates and may be of interest to people who are curious about the USSDA and some of the teams in it. If it seems worthwhile, I might add the MLS teams when the rest of the country starts playing more games. For starters here is a distribution of starts, roster sports (Teams nameup to 18 for each game), minutes and goals by age (as is listed in the game reports) for each of the U18 teams. This includes games through Feb 12. The teams point/game is listed in the lower left hand corner. Code: Galxy18 Starts Roster Min % Goals 93 37 61 3484 27% 5 94 89 135 7828 61% 19 95 17 28 1547 12% 5 96 0 0 0 0% 0 2.46 143 224 12859 1 29 Chivs18 Starts Roster Min % Goals 93 28 55 2613 19% 8 94 89 140 8029 58% 13 95 37 54 3185 23% 21 96 0 1 0 0% 0 2.21 154 250 13827 1 42 RSL18 Starts Roster Min % Goals 93 47 70 4332 29% 17 94 108 185 9717 65% 12 95 10 12 801 5% 0 96 0 0 0 0% 0 1.27 165 267 14850 1 29 Pats18 Starts Roster Min % Goals 93 66 120 6218 45% 5 94 88 117 7642 55% 19 95 0 0 0 0% 0 96 0 0 0 0% 0 1.64 154 237 13860 1 24 Arsen18 Starts Roster Min % Goals 93 53 82 4950 33% 8 94 103 169 9217 62% 12 95 9 10 673 5% 1 96 0 0 0 0% 0 1.67 165 261 14840 1 21 RSC18 Starts Roster Min % Goals 93 22 52 2286 14% 8 94 162 241 14362 85% 17 95 3 7 270 2% 0 96 0 0 0 0% 0 1.53 187 300 16918 1 25 Strik18 Starts Roster Min % Goals 93 19 33 1510 11% 4 94 110 186 10264 74% 13 95 25 31 2098 15% 4 96 0 0 0 0% 0 1.14 154 250 13872 1 21 Nomad18 Starts Roster Min % Goals 93 61 76 5342 39% 8 94 90 146 8184 59% 10 95 2 15 249 2% 1 96 1 1 90 1% 0 0.71 154 238 13865 1 19 Surf18 Starts Roster Min % Goals 93 60 105 5276 33% 3 94 116 177 10564 67% 14 95 0 0 0 0% 0 96 0 0 0 0% 0 1.06 176 282 15840 1 17
Here is the U16 data: Code: Galxy16 Starts Roster Min % Goals 95 104 159 8305 73% 30 96 35 65 2768 24% 2 97 3 7 269 2% 1 98 0 0 0 0% 0 1.85 142 231 11342 1 33 Chivs16 Starts Roster Min % Goals 95 84 116 6468 53% 15 96 40 92 3553 29% 8 97 21 28 1638 13% 8 98 8 11 582 5% 1 1.5 153 247 12241 1 32 RSL16 Starts Roster Min % Goals 95 158 227 12356 94% 24 96 7 39 845 6% 6 97 0 0 0 0% 0 98 0 0 0 0% 0 2.33 165 266 13201 1 30 Pats16 Starts Roster Min % Goals 95 107 169 8632 69% 13 96 48 71 3831 31% 11 97 0 0 0 0% 0 98 0 0 0 0% 0 1.5 155 240 12463 1 24 Arsen16 Starts Roster Min % Goals 95 158 252 12673 95% 41 96 7 14 610 5% 3 97 0 0 0 0% 0 98 0 0 0 0% 0 2.07 165 266 13283 1 44 RSC16 Starts Roster Min % Goals 95 163 256 12972 87% 23 96 20 24 1503 10% 2 97 4 14 466 3% 0 98 0 0 0 0% 0 1.35 187 294 14941 1 25 Strik16 Starts Roster Min % Goals 95 125 207 9929 81% 14 96 29 42 2382 19% 2 97 0 0 0 0% 0 98 0 0 0 0% 0 1.07 154 249 12311 1 16 Nomad16 Starts Roster Min % Goals 95 94 143 7440 65% 7 96 49 87 3964 35% 3 97 0 0 0 0% 0 98 0 0 0 0% 0 1.07 143 230 11404 1 10 Surf16 Starts Roster Min % Goals 95 142 234 11241 80% 24 96 34 44 2839 20% 5 97 0 0 0 0% 0 98 0 0 0 0% 0 2.00 176 278 14080 1 29
Thanks for the stats, scoachd1. Just a few random observations: For the U18s, Chivas USA has done the best job in getting minutes for '95s, but that shouldn't come as a surprise, as two of their best players, Marki Delgado and Ben Spencer, are '95s. RSC and Strikers have the fewest minutes for '93s. This is also not a surprise, as both clubs always have a disproportionate number of players from middle-class and upper middle-class backgrounds, and those players tend to finish high school and head off to college in greater %s. For the U16s, what caught my eye was RSL's giving 94% of the minutes to their '95s, and only 6% to '96s. This seems to run counter to the philosophy of other MLS DAs, including Chivas USA and the Galaxy. RSL seems intent on winning the So Cal Division and then making a big splash in the playoffs. They may be doing it for marketing/publicity reasons, to attract more out-of-town players to their isolated residency. Arsenal, as a non-MLS DA, is more predictably focused on winning, as only 5% of minutes have gone to '96s, and none to '97s. Kudos to Nomads and Pats, each with at least 30% of minutes going to '96s. Chivas USA has given the most minutes to '97s. As with their U18s, they have an outstanding young player in Jorgie Ruiz, a '97.
Re: USSDA SoCal Division Data - comments Here are the number of minutes for full-time players in a little under a half of a calendar year. The columns are Games, number of full time players, Ave minutes per player, Median number of minutes and the high and low for each team. If a player played on both the U16 and U18 team, the player is considered a U16 player and all the minutes are shown as part of the U16 team. If a U16 player played the entire time for the U18 team, then everything will be under the U18. Players on the roster who have not played are not counted in these totals. Code: Team ' G FT Ave Med Hi lo GalaxyU18 13 24 471 421 957 135 GalaxyU16 13 28 459 469 980 11 ChivasU18 14 22 596 681 1289 51 ChivasU16 14 25 500 492 1019 61 RSLU18 ' 15 22 617 615 1260 25 RSLU16 ' 15 24 578 513 1200 26 PatsU18 ' 14 22 626 513 1158 95 PatsU16 ' 14 20 621 652 1069 80 ArsenalU18 15 23 614 571 1285 22 ArsenalU16 15 23 607 589 1159 76 RSCU18 ' 16 23 716 638 1530 150 RSCU16 ' 16 19 793 783 1360 253 StrikersU18 14 19 619 621 1260 15 StrikersU16 14 21 670 702 1085 233 NomadsU18 14 24 564 503 1260 8 NomadsU16 13 23 511 341 1040 14 SurfU18 ' 16 24 660 510 1393 70 SurfU16 ' 16 19 741 700 1280 235 Not to start further debate on the subject, this means that even the player who played the most minutes for the Galaxy U18 team played just a little over 10 full league games in about 24 weeks. When you consider these teams had 3 games bunched at the showcase in Florida and several other sets of games were two to a weekend due to required travel. These means if a kid was not in a game day line-up, he wouldn't be playing competitive games for a month. The reality is that this amount of games through the fall and winter season is not all that much different than the sparse college spring game schedule.
I agree. The difference between Chivas USA U16s and Real Salt LakeU16s is pretty stark. When you consider Chivas also plays 97s and even 98s, the average Year of Birth for Chivas is actually 1996 for the year. What also was interesting to me was the large percentage of 95 on the Strikers u18s. Their U16 team is struggling and I'm sure the kids playing on the 18s can help them out.
Re: USSDA SoCal Division Data - comments Without getting into specifics, the Galaxy has more personnel issues going on than elsewhere. I guess they figure they can get away with this as they see themselves as the creme de la creme. I strongly suggest that any family considering going to the Galaxy should be aware of what they're doing. However, they do schedule non-DA scrimmages, perhaps more than other DAs, so I don't know how this impacts lesser-used players. On the other hand, RSC has done a pretty good job of distributing minutes.
Another interesting thing about the Chivas U16s is that with the exception of Pats, the Chivas 97's have more goals than every other teams 96s including the LA Galaxy's. They even have a 98 who scored a goal. Similarly Chivas 95s playing up on U18 have as many or more goals than almost half of the division.
Re: USSDA SoCal Division Data - comments Given the fact that they attract a lot of talented players it is likely people are going to be unhappy. When you add this type of schedule on top of it, the level of discontent is only going to get magnified. One of the things I'll probably put together is the number of drops for each team which will give some idea of the level of discontent.
Thanks for taking the time to compile this scoachd. It is very helpful and the data speak for themselves. Great job!
I notice a definitive sample bias, an area bias, a few small yet significant collections errors, huge errors in your data analysis with misuse of mean, median, and mode errors, and a clear ulterior motive prior to data collection, and ignoring of other interpretative conclusions. There are other ways to look at the numbers than simply your single conclusion within the context of competitive soccer environment. The only way to measure discontent is to contact all 23 players directly. A player who has never played in a game may be very content in the free training and high competition, with the ability to improve and ultimately start every game next year. He may not want to pay for USYS team. Your correlation assumption that 'drop's correlate to discontent is incorrect. Be careful about your information bubble.
Here is some information on goals for those who might be interested. Please be aware of possible sample bias, area bias, a few small yet significant collections errors, huge errors in data analysis with possible misuse of mean, median, and mode errors, and a possible ulterior motive prior to data collection. Code: Team Player ' Year Start Min Goal Min/goal Galxy16 Villarreal, Jaime ' 95 10 768 13 59.1 Arsnl16 Arriola, Paul ' 95 8 604 10 60.4 Pats16 Pacheco, Brian ' 96 12 864 10 86.4 chivs16 Lomeli, ROMARIO S ' 95 11 851 9 94.6 Arsnl16 Garcia, Jose ' 95 15 1159 9 128.8 chivs16 RUIZ, JORGE A ' 97 8 766 8 95.8 RSL16 Navarro, Jose ' 95 13 1031 7 147.3 Arsnl16 Gonzalez, Michael ' 95 7 504 6 84.0 Galxy16 Dhillon, Justin ' 95 5 416 5 83.2 RSL16 Pando, Dalton ' 96 4 467 5 93.4 Surf16 Lopez, Benji ' 95 7 567 5 113.4 RSL16 Brody, Andrew ' 95 14 1003 5 200.6 Surf16 Kotselas, Kostas ' 95 5 451 4 112.8 Arsnl16 Charles, Brian ' 95 4 518 4 129.5 Galxy16 Ortiz, Mario ' 95 7 562 4 140.5 Pats16 Torres, Brian ' 95 9 635 4 158.8 namad16 Heine, Garrett ' 95 13 978 4 244.5 Surf16 Turner, Michael ' 95 16 1265 4 316.3 Team Player ' Year Start Min Goal Min/goal chivs18 Verso, MARK A ' 95 7 654 8 81.8 Pats18 Casner, Robert "TJ" ' 94 12 996 8 124.5 chivs18 RODRIGUEZ, ESTEBAN JR ' 94 13 1016 8 127.0 RSC18 Manak, Manvir ' 93 6 638 7 91.1 chivs18 Spencer, BEN Fritz ' 95 10 733 7 104.7 chivs18 Delgado, MARCO ANTONIO ' 95 13 1170 6 195.0 strkr18 Chasman, Matthew ' 94 10 752 5 150.4 RSL18 Orrellana, Maikon ' 93 11 950 5 190.0 Arsnl18 Enriquez, Jaime ' 94 10 1035 5 207.0 RSL18 Salcedo, Carlos ' 93 12 1036 5 207.2 Pats18 Escudero, Roberto ' 94 13 1158 5 231.6 namad18 Gultoprak, Kaan Han ' 93 13 1182 5 236.4 RSL18 Kelly, Dylan ' 94 4 501 4 125.3 chivs18 Dheming, JOSE A ' 93 8 624 4 156.0 strkr18 Stenberg, Jake Ryan ' 93 10 733 4 183.3 strkr18 Jimenez, Jesus F ' 94 9 875 4 218.8 Galxy18 Murphy, Drew ' 94 12 957 4 239.3 Arsnl18 Gonzalez, Miguel A ' 94 11 973 4 243.3 strkr18 Thierjung, Christian Ryan' 95 12 1005 4 251.3 namad18 Carrillo, Manuel ' 94 13 1220 4 305.0 Arsnl18 Camacho-Diaz, Nicolas ' 93 13 1249 4 312.3 Very impressive performance by Jorge Ruiz who has 8 in just 766 minutes while essentially playing 2 year up. Also it is interesting that Chivas has 4 of the top 6 scorers at the U18 level and 3 of them are playing up. Chivas also has 2 of the top 6 scorers at the U16 level.
One staple of discussions ranging from online places like bigsoccer to offline locations like your favorite bar is the relative quality of a league (Is MLS better than bottom level EPL etc.). Given that there is very little data know one really knows. For an extreme example, Chris Hernandez, the Academy player of the year played for the Union scored against Everton in a friendly last year. Obviously Everton plays at a higher level than does his academy, but how much so? One thing nice thing about the USSDA is that there is a lot of available data on goals and an increasing amount of interplay of its players at various levels. For example, 29 players in the California Division have played in both U16 and U18. So one way to compare leagues levels of play is to compare the goal scoring rates of players at various levels. Below is a table of players that have scored of the 15 players that have scored a goal at either of the U16 or U18 levels (doesn’t make much sense in adding minutes of goalkeepers or defenders that rarely score). As you can see, even with this small sample, we can see that it appears to be roughly 2.5 - 3 times harder to score at the U18 level than the U16 level. Code: [FONT="Courier New"]Team Player Yr Min Goal Min/Gl Min Goal Min/Gl RSL Allen, Jordan 95 703 N/A 304 3 101 Arsenal Arriola, Paul 95 90 N/A 604 10 60 Nomads Benito, Edward 95 46 N/A 537 1 537 Pats DELATORRE, Kevin 95 87 N/A 385 2 193 Galaxy Dhillon, Justin 95 474 2 237 416 5 83 Galaxy Espana, Angel Josue 95 12 N/A 337 1 337 RSL Navarro, Jose 95 90 N/A 1031 7 147 Galaxy Ortiz, Mario 95 27 N/A 562 4 141 Arsenal Osorio, Misael 95 428 1 428 399 1 399 Galaxy Raygoza, William 95 748 3 249 160 N/A Nomads Rivera, Salvador 95 23 1 23 95 N/A Strikrs Salcedo Borrego, Paul 95 67 N/A 858 3 286 Arsenal Sanchez, Alejandro 95 138 N/A 892 3 297 Strikrs Thierjung, Christian Ryan 95 1005 4 251 80 1 80 Galaxy Villarreal, Jaime 95 86 N/A 768 13 59 Totals 4024 11 366 7428 54 138 [/FONT] Obviously there is the potential for any number of confounding factors such as more attacking oriented players from a lower level being moved to more defensive oriented positions on higher level team. Similarly if your data was limited to William Raygosa scoring plenty for the U18 Galaxy but none for the U16, you would falsely conclude that scoring at the U18 level is a lot easier than U16. But as the quantity of data from players playing in both leagues increases, clearer patterns of playing level will emerge. Furthermore players in the academy league such as Fagundez, Pfeffer, Leyva, Spencer all scored in MLS reserve games. Others such as Jack McBean of the Galaxy have played in them. If you get the minutes per game these players played, you can get an increasingly valid metric on the differences in scoring rates. So if anyone has data, it would be interesting to see.
What do you mean I'm funny? Funny How? Like a clown. I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to amuse you! What is so funny about me. Tell me.
The data show the extent of the Academy's failure to schedule enough games for its players. It's startling when you consider that these kids represent some of southern California's best players who played and practiced more when they were younger than they do now. No surprise that Pateadores won the Academy championship last year.
Over the 22 weeks from Sept 17th to the last game on Feb 17 there were 14 games and it seems as the stated ratio was a competitive game per week. Taking into account that they took off Thanksgiving, Xmas, and New Year weekends it does seem the schedule was a little thin having open 9 weekends because a few 2 games over a weekend occured. It looks like 3 games are scheduled for March and 4 each for April and May so that looks good. Before you jump to conclusions I would love for the DA to answer why. Instead of assuming they sat around lazily saying we're not gonna schedule alot of weekends this year ok?. Having 23 players on what is arguably the best youth team in the country talent wise explains why not all players will get 22 full games. Its simple math with 90 minute games 11 starters 7 available subs mostly mid to late game not all talented players will get that many full official games. Again you ignore all extenuating circumstances. They do schedule non-DA competitive games, If you look at the roster not all players are available each game and just sitting there. A few play often play with the first team, a few got games with U16s and are playing up, some went to Europe for training, and some have knocks and had moderately long term injuries; just like any soccer team. Very talented teams like Chelsea, Man City, etc have many talented players not getting games. There are solutions. Don't have 7 substitutes but I think that hurts development. Have a few less on the roster. But this makes the decision for the player and not having the player make the decision. If the player feels he is not getting enough competitive games he can work harder and get better or he can play with another team. Many players switch teams for these very reasons. Eric Gonzalez played with the Galaxy now plays with Chivas USA, Juan Cervantes plays for LA but his LA picture has him wearing a Pats Tshirt, and Abel Leon is wearing a Chivas Jersey. This is good for development. Players searching for better playing opportunities. You're only using one team or one conference and trying to make overriding conclusions based on a preconceived opinion. This is a legitimate issue but is minor considering all the advantages the DA brings to the table. You can ignore everything that contradicts your misuse of 'average' statistics when determining what is best overall training environment. The players by their actions will tell the DA and the DA will react. Not just the players you know but all of them nationwide. Now that they are in the midst of their first official 10 month playing season its common that issues arise and hopefully they can fix them quickly. So go ahead and cut a few more for a 18-20 player team and make sure they get official and unofficial top notch games. Its really not that complicated. I remember my parents drilling into me as a young child, instead of complaining about an issue go fix it.
In order to fix something you need to understand the problem. Because if you don't the "fix" can actually make things worse. What we are doing is identifying problems because in this case, the "fix" has actually made things a lot worse for players in this area. Problems are actually a lot more complex than the single dimensional way which has characterized your view of player development throughout your posts.