Of course I watch games. I've watched enough to see that Harden is a crap defender. Obviously I know that Eckersley's our RB, but often fullbacks can play CB as well. What I'm saying is that we could give Omphroy a chance and have Eckersley play CB for a game. Unless of course you have something against Omphroy, and want to see us continue to be stuck with Harden at CB
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) Have you watched enough to know that Omphroy hasn't even managed to make the bench yet this year? Not once. Does that give you a clue about how 'capable' he is? And what I'm saying is that your proposal makes no sense and is beyond silly. (There should be a sub-forum where you can post your lineups -maybe MLS: Fanciful Rubbish, or MLS: Silly Sandbox or some such.)
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) I think we all agree that Harden is poor, however you can't take your best player (Eckersley) out of his natual position, that just isn't a good solution. I'd personally rather see Harden play CB and Eckersley stay at RB than see Eck's move into an unfamilar position, even if it does mean playing Harden today. Otherwise we would end up with Eck's and Henry at CB, with absolutely no experience at all! No coach would do that to a team. So Harden needs to play tonight, unfortunately.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) Have you watched enough to notice that not a single youth player has been given a shot until there were no other options? EX: Henry doesn't start until Attakora, Cann, and Williams aren't able to play, Cordon doesn't play until there's no one else capable to play in the midfield, and the only games he's started were against Edmonton. Does that mean they were bad players? or is it just that Winter doesn't trust his young players in this league. It's true that I've only seen him play a couple times, but all those times I've been highly impressed with both his attacking attributes, and his ability to command the defense. I get the impression that the only reason Omphroy hasn't played is that there have been other, what Winter views as options at RB (Gargan, Harden, and now Eckersley). Just wondering, But have you even seen Omphroy play? Does anybody have any reason to believe that Eckersley can't play CB? so far the only argument I've heard is "he's a RB". Sorry, but that's not enough to convince me that he couldn't end up being the most solid CB we've ever had as well. not to mention the fact that he can distribute the ball well- something that none of our CBs can do well
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) Besides Cordon and Henry, I know that both Makubuya and Morgan have made the selection several times and have even had some minutes (as many as they could expect at this stage of their careers), so again you're talking rubbish. And no coach who's interested in keeping his job is going to play these kids in a meaningful match as long as he has better options, which he almost always will have. Their time will come (and not necessarily when you decide you'd like to have a look at one of them at the expense of one of our more experienced players). 'All those times' lol - sure, Omphroy's a regular Dani Alves! Yes, to answer your question I saw his two pre-season appearances (in the Orlando matches), and he wasn't any great shakes, I thought. TFC management apparently thought so too because he hasn't played since. Whether or not Eckersley can play CB is beside the point, as several posters have vainly tried explaining to you. I guess I don't really expect you to get it . . . so carry on mister Ajax.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) Thanks i will: unless you're expecting us to make the playoffs this season, then saying: is Rubbish. the whole point of this season isn't to make the playoffs, the point is to build the team for the future. how is this season going to have any impact on our future, if we insist on starting players who will be gone in a year or two anyways? Cordon played agains FCE, and came on as a sub in a few other games. Why? because there are so few MF options, and he was the last option. Henry didn't play until there were no other CB left on the team other than him and Harden. Makubuya came on as a sub in the first game of the season and hasn't been heard from since. Morgan came on in the second game of the season because our ONLY OTHER LB got hurt, and he hasn't been seen since. How does any of this make "Have you watched enough to notice that not a single youth player has been given a shot until there were no other options?" a rubbish statement? it only confirms it. Henry wasn't given a chance until all other CBs were injured, does that mean he's a crappy defender?
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) It is more complicated than merely "playing the young players" to develop for the future. If we put out a side of the youth players, and they got owned every week, this would destroy their confidence. Winter is being sensible, like any coach would, and gradually playing the young players, giving them experience and resting them when needed. Cordon, Henry, Makabuya, Morgan and others need to be slowly introduced to senior play. So, I'm fine with some of the senior/veteran players starting the majority of the games right now. I think we can see with Plata at the moment, that giving a young player TOO much playing time early can have a negative effect on them. A good example of a slow introduction of young players is the young twins Rafael and Fabio at Man Utd. Both players are CLEARLY better than O'Shae, Wes Brown, and Gary Neville...yet at the start of this season these three seniors were getting all the playing time. BothThe twins were slowly introduced into the first team, and by next season I expect both to be first choice full backs. Let's not destroy these kids at a young age, and Winter should keep playing the youth slowly as they develop, as he has been. And if this means only playing them when the veteran players are injured, then this is fine experience until they gradually become first choice players.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) thank you for at least coming up with reasonable points and not the "your an idiot for thinking slightly outside the MLS box and therefore you don't watch games" point that someone else came up with
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) Oh, so you mean he's doing the common practice for youth players across the ENTIRE PLANET? Seriously, why do we have to carry on with this argument when every single person on this board gets it except for one guy? Especially when it's just a repeat rehashing of the same, well understood, common-knowledge points?
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) The point. . . isn't to make the playoffs? Where did you hear that? I don't think you heard it from anybody associated with the team. Anyway I predict Omphroy will be gone by next year. And you heard that here first. He's not part of the plan. He's not ready for prime time. He's extraneous. He's surplus to requirements. He doesn't fit our needs, current or projected. It confirms itself as rubbish (sort of like a self-rubbishing prophecy) by sidestepping the point of the discussion, which was that moving our best defender to another position just to shoehorn in a kid the coach doesn't rate is a ridiculous idea, and no coach in his right mind would do it. It means that Winter, unlike yourself, considers this season more than an audition for the draftees and the Academy players.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) the only reason I've been arguing this for so long is that I got kind of annoyed when i got called an idiot for thinking slightly outside of the MLS box by saying that a RB could play CB as well. I understand that young players have to be used carefully. When did i ever say the opposite? But is it that big of a stretch to suggest using a 22 year old player in A game in a season thats been thrown? that's all my original point was, i don't know why some people think it's so outrageously wrong
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) You've put Omphroy in almost every single one of your suggested elevens since the season started, and nobody understands this sad devotion to a player you've never watched. As far as "thinking outside of the MLS box" by switching defenders around in their locations, that's been standard operation procedure since 2007, and every season it has the same result; poor mistakes and goals conceded
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) the #1 priority for this year is to change the way the team plays, and to sort out who can and who can't play in the new system, and to bring in players who can. it's what Winter said when he came to the team. says who, you? if that's true, why did Winter draft him with his first pick? what happens when Eckersley's loan expires and he goes back to England, and Omphroy's been released as you predicted? then we'll have no one who can play RB it's one facking game in a season that's been thrown. yes, he's our best defender, which is why i suggested that he be tried in a position where he can better influence the game. reread the question, this has nothing to do with what i asked. i asked if Henry's a bad defender because he didn't play until just recently
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) I see that in spite of all the time wasted by people on this board trying to enlighten you, you still don't have a clue. Sorry guy but I can't really justify wasting any more time on you. 'The instruction of fools is folly.' Now please go watch the game and stop pestering people with your bloody nonsense.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) IS THAT A ********ING ANSWER TO MY QUESTION??? your right, i shouldn't waste any more time on an asshole like you who isn't willing to think outside the box even a little bit. thank you for playing the holier than thou card to try to pull out of the argument without answering any of the points I've put forward
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) You're not thinking outside of the box though, TFC have been playing defenders out of position since the first games we played, and it has almost always had disastrous results.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) The only point you're capable of putting forward is the one on top of your head. I can't do much about that.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) I guess your right that I'm not thinking outside the box. i could name quite a few defenders who have played several positions successfully. moving from RB RCB isn't that uncommon a move, so i don't really know why people are getting so pissed off that i suggested that Eckersley could play RCB. he could bring some much needed distribution skills to the central defense
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) and you're just pulling shit out of your ass. I can't do much about that. and you still haven't answered my question I've put forward several good points, but you've chosen to ignore them because you can't he bothered with a mear human like me
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) Are you having a go at me here? Are you suggestion I'm wrong? It IS common knowledge that the vast majority of professional football managers/coaches "on the entire planet" do blood their youth players slowly into the professional game. Occasionally you will get a youth player (16, 17, 18 years old) who is thrust into the first team and just plays maturely straight away, but this is rare. I can name MANY players from accross the entire planet that have been slowly brought into first team football! In fact, I'd say almost ALL footballers are brought into the pro game from youth slowly! If Winter thrust the entire youth team in to the first team right away, it would ruin at least half of them as they would become so disheartened that they would fail mentally to develop. I don't thik any of us want this to happen, do we?
Re: Back line difference As far as the "playing out of position" argument is concerned - really this has to be looked at on a player by player basis. We HAVE to assume that Winter and company try different options in training, and they will talk to players and see what they are capable of. IF a player is comfortable playing in a different position, then they will try it out in training and see if it can work. We need to assume that Winter has thought of the option of putting Eckersley at CB, but for whatever reason is not persueing this route. Having played football at various amateur levels myself, I can definitely vouch that playing at RB is VERY different to playing at CB. I've known a lot of players who can play RB or LB but are completely out of their depth at CB. I played RB for much of my youth, and I played CB a couple of times, but was hopeless at it! CB and RB is very different, so it takes a very talented and adaptable player to move from one position to the next easily.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) No, I'm agreeing with you. This stuff is such common knowledge (and not just in soccer, in pretty much every team sport) that I find it ridiculous that you had to state it to begin with.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) Your question was irrelevant to the discussion, a red herring if I ever spotted one. Do you understand why? lol.
Re: Pre-Match / Match / Post-Match Thread - Toronto FC vs. Seattle Sounders FC - June 18, 2011 (R) got it, sorry! I think I got home from the game last night thinking the world hated me! haha! I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was like that!
Re: Back line difference Three things: A) You can't just throw kids into the lineup, it ruins their confidence, the best method is to ease them in slowly a couple, at most, at a time. None of our academy products would be seeing anywhere near the minutes they are without the clear lack of talent/depth at several positions on the first team. B) Please keep it away from personal attacks. Talk to the points the poster is making. C) Repeating similar talking points again and again isn't helpful either. Continue as you were.