I just think that UVa has such a great tradition and it allows him to go out and recruit great players. But he does nothing with them except force them to plaly ugly soccer. Hunter Freeman is a good player, but there is no way that a back should set a record for assists. This happened because Gelnovatch makes them just send balls in from deep all game. It's pathetic soccer to watch, and I think UVa deserves better. Anyone agree with me or am I crazy?
yes, uva has a great tradition yes, they recruit good players yes, they play ugly soccer yes, freeman is a good player yes, gelnovatch's strategy consists of solely the long ball yes, it's horrid to watch the endless long ball without a target yes, they have better players that don't get playing time, because they don't play long ball yes, uva deserves better i'll add further, uva ... doesn't adapt new tactics within a game tends to panic when they go down a goal early loses games late because of lack of attention to detail is predictable to other coaches who they play 2-3 times in a season has mostly lived off the tremendous saves of their keeper burke the last two yrs HOWEVER, when you win the ACC two years in a row and make it to the final 8 in '04, then RESULTS supercede STYLE points in the eyes of the AD. 'I fired the coach because he didn't have good style' is not something to expect ANYWHERE in college soccer. And to paraphrase Gelnovatch 'You don't win games by making pretty passes in the midfield'. Besides (and perhaps more important to the athletic dept), from the revenue perspective even soccer at uva falls into the "don't care" category.
What he said. Freeman doesn't just hang out at the back of the field, he never has. He's back there when he needs to be but isn't afraid to move forward and help on the attack. The long ball stuff has become more prevalent over the last couple of years, their game has gotten uglier, but I don't see that as a reason to fire a coach.
The only reason I can think of to fire GG is that it would make things a lot easier when my terps play them. That should be all you need to know about his worth to the program. I don't hear anyone calling for Jay Vidovich's head down at WF although they haven't ever won anything. Be thankful for GG, who else has won two straight ACC Tourneys since Bruce Almighty?
Assuming GG stays, and I think he will based on the ACC's abnd other accomplishments, what he needs is depth. It seems UVA always has one or two (at times more) clearly infererior players out there, whereans teams like Indiana did not have any weak players that I could see. They were solid from top to bottom. The two big differences were that tewams like Indiana did not play the long ball unnecessarily, as UVA is wont to do, and teams like Indiana have solid players from top to bottom. UVA has had some good talent, but at the other end of thje scale there have been some guys out on the pitch who did not belong there.
That's real funny. That's the way his HS team played! Notorius running and long ballers. They couldn't string three passes together. You could get away with that in the 80's. Not anymore.
You're right about soccer falling into the "don't care" caterory, even at UVa. About results being more important than style. Gelnovatch was handed the keys to a ferrari when he took the job, and now it's a camaro. Winning a couple ACC championships and squeaking through to the quarters in the tournament is not a great track record when you consider what he inherited and the players that he has had. (Good goalkeepers and Kyle Martino, Alecko Eskandarian have had a lot to do with the little success his teams have had) And the style that he plays is not only ugly to watch, it's not even good long ball. His teams do amateur things on the field. For example: -Keeper has the ball, looking for people, nobody opens up into space -Someone will take the ball after an opposing team corner and try to run the length of the field and beat 3,4 defenders on his own -rushing the attack when you don't have even close to the numbers to mount a serious threat These are simple things that any coach should be able to take care of, but it happens all the time.
I definately agree that he doesn't make use of some of the players he gets. His lineup choices in the last couple of years, and even a few before that, have definately worried me a bit.
So if you are saying UVA doesnt have enough depth........then how do you expalin the 196 other teams in Divison I that clearly have have fewer quality players than UVA...........if you dont think they have depth you are either unrealistic, clueless or George Gelnovatch...put it this way, they have more depth than Indiana. I agree with what mnost of you are saying regarding UVa.....but to say they have no depth....I think most college coahces (even in the ACC etc) would love to have their "depth " problem
Martino and Eskandarian weren't even on the teams that WON ACC tournament titles the past two years. [begin rant] Look at the guy's record, look at the present situation of the college game. Compare it with college basketball and the affects of early departure to the NBA have. Compare GG's record and achievements with someone like Roy Williams or some other "famous" or very highly regarded coach with no national titles and you'll see how silly it would be to label a guy as a bad coach or to question his abilities just because he has kept the program nationally ranked and still highly regarded. The talent gap has closed significantly in soccer and when the seemingly best payers skip college altogether or leave early there's even more parity. With regards to the number of quality players that see a lot of bench time, GG is not afraid to give his players a dose of reality from time to time. I'm sure he has quite an ego and that may have something to do with why a freakishly skilled player like Joe Vide sees so little time. But also consider the rigors and physical nature of the college game these days. There are better players, and these better players also can mix it up physically. Finally, high school reputation does not always translate into the college landscape. That is not to say some mediocre or seldom-used college players with a huge reputation as a recruit cannot become a decent pro player. It may be he doesn't fit into the style of soccer being played. If Ronaldo went to England and was awful we'd be foolish to label him as a bad player, because just send him back to Holland, Spain or Italy and you'll see what you expected from him. That is a very extreme example, but there you go. Finally, look at how many times Arena's teams flopped out of the NCAA tournament early between the time his program was highly ranked and his first trip to a final. Man, they should have fired his ass [/rant over]
Other than your first quote, I completely agree. Or, I'll modify to say that the Dept. really did care about the Men's program at least when I worked there. I would say that the Mens team was 3rd behind football and basketball and that's saying a lot when you factor that UVA is a big school in a big conference. If they don't care now, that's only occured the last couple of years! George isn't a bad person and for the most part has a "normal" sized ego for an former athlete . However, when you consider the exposure he's had not only on the national level but the international level as well as the talent that comes to the program, it is perplexing that George's teams don't perform as well as we would expect. It is easy for one to come with excuses about Project 40 and kids leaving early, yet, top players still goto UVA year after year! To me the decline began when UVA lost in the National Championship in 1997! That team had some of the best players in the nation! The main reason they lost is because lack of preparation..among other things!
1. Don't have to, because it is irrelevant. 2. Indiana didn't have any Rosenbaums on the pitch, at least in the games I watched. And UVA played 2 or three guys pretty regularly who are about that caliber. That, to me, indicates a depth problem. 3. I didn't say that have "no" depth. Indiana did not field any bad players. Neither did Duke. Neither did UCSB. That speaks a bit to their depth, I would say.
I disagree with Subbuteo The poster who said winning ugly is not good for the program is correct Winning with long balls and not possession soccer at U10, U16 or College has the same effect. The game is a game of technical skills of trapping and passing. The lack of the speed of play and possession soccer is the only thing that keeps more Americans from playing in Europe for million dollar contracts. UVA can recruit the best of the best but if not developing the technical aspect of the game the players will not be on Fox Sport World and the same can be said for finalist UCSB. I am surprised that Bruce Arena would not influence the UVA skipper to build up his attacks with the talent in the UVA midfield.
I like the comparison . I used to think the same thing. However, you cannot argue that GG puts up impressive numbers... Year Record Pct. Accomplishments 1996 16-3-3 .795 NCAA First Round ACC Runner-Up 1997 19-4-3 .788 NCAA Runner-Up ACC Champion 1998 16-4-3 .761 NCAA Quarterfinals ACC Semifinals 1999 14-9-1 .604 NCAA Quarterfinals ACC Runner-Up 2000 17-6-1 .729 NCAA Quarterfinals ACC Runner-Up 2001 17-2-1 .875 NCAA Second Round ACC Runner-Up 2002 15-7-0 .682 NCAA Second Round ACC Runner-Up 2003 11-10-2 .522 NCAA Third Round ACC Champions 2004 18-5-1 .783 NCAA Fourth Round ACC Champions Alltime 142-50-15 .740 I don't particulary care for GG as a coach, but numbers speak louder than opinions. GG will not be exiting UV anytime soon unless it is by his own free will, which I don't see happening.
I like how you distorted what I said in order to make a point. I said that good goalkeeping, Martino and Eskandarian were responsible for a lot of the success. You are right, Martino and Eskandarian weren't there for the ACC Championships, but Ryan Burke was certainly there. I regard him as a bad coach not just because I don't think the results his team gets are good enough. I mainly regard him as a bad coach because of what I see on the field.
Rats! I tuned in hoping you were recommending that GG be fired from the NATIONAL team. It pisses me off that he uses his NAT team coaching status as a recruiting tool for UVA.
You erred and I was pointing it out. Your post implied two very servicable pros, Martino and Eskandarian, were huge factors in the Hoos' ACC tourney titles the past two years. I wasn't distorting anything. If anything I was undistorting your distortions (not sure if that is even English right there). Sure, Burke was hot his freshman year in the ACC tournament with 11 saves in three games and two PK wins. I see your point about getting down on GG due to the product on the field. I, too, am not enamored with the program for the style of play in recent years and especially compared to what we saw under BA, but I do see that results are being had in an increasingly competitive college sport. I will gladly trade another NCAA title in return for some ugly-looking soccer. I would prefer pretty soccer AND an NCAA title, but until Bruce Almighty returns I won't expect to have my cake and eat it too I choose an NCAA title over pretty soccer at this point. I think I would pick a World Cup title over pretty soccer, too.
A student a UNC was a high school mate of Dane Murphy freshman who told him that GG told him if he came to UVA that he would be added to the U-18 NAT coached by GG This player had never been considered for any NAT and was added to the U-18......He was such a stud that he played a few minutes in 6 cupcake games....THIS IS ABUSE OF POSITION by a National Team coach.... By the way the asst coach at UVA was the Regional ODP coach I assume this is an attempt to elevate a Regional player to NAT status so GG can say he has signed another NAT and give his UVA player additional status and NAT training......How good is a NAT that plays a few minutes in 6 games
Ditto. You may win some games playing ugly soccer but your not gonna win a national title that way and your not gonna develop great players. Plus if it continues the more skilled players will stop going to virginia and will go some where else to develop.
The real interesting thing about this thread is that a few years back, people would have had all kinds of opinions of what to do, and most probably would have supported GG. But now those arguements are harder to support with examples of how good they are. And the reason is?? Because nobody cares about a losing program. IF, and a big IF, UVA every gets in a position to win one again, people will get motivated to talk about them. Until then, they are just another 8-20 tier program. Good, always will be good, but not good enough to advance to a final 4.
the player development point can go two ways: one way is GG is helping develop players if you look at the number who have gone onto pro careers. The flip side is they leave early because they are not developing in college.