http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/861510--text-of-richard-peddie-s-speech It's a long spread out read, I've pulled some of the interesting points. Regarding BMO field profit and TFC fans: "It has attracted worldwide attention for its events . . . its sell-outs and its rabid TFC fans. It has also been a profitable Toronto-MLSE partnership every year to the tune of $2 million. A return on investment for the City of Toronto managed by MLSE. 2010 will be a profitable year as well." Here's the kicker: "And our city building investment is not going to stop. Our soccer academy will be up and running in less than two years. With a wait list of 19,000 we need to expand BMO Field to 30,000 seats." Obviously there is no timeline here so I'm not suggesting that they're are taking out the cranes rignt now, but MLSE has made no bones about wanting and outdoor game at BMO and at it's current capacity it's hard to imagine it being worth it for them. I think this has partly to do with their sudden increased ambition to expand the stadium. Think of the dollars they would make charging 30,000 people Leaf ticket prices. The question I have is simple: Is this the right move? Do you like the idea of a 8,000 seat expansion for BMO? Do you believe that there is still a waiting list of 19,000 for TFC tickets? The startling decrease in physical attendance is something that many have mentioned recently, from the apparant "Go Train Incident" last weekend, to the late Toronto crowd excuses...has the novelty worn off? A few points to mull over. Discuss.
What GO Train incident? Just curious. If the team starts winning, there will be real butts in the seats and not just empty paid-for seats. That's all there really is to it. Unfortunately, making the playoffs would be novelty enough to get excited again. It's good business to take a few years to build toward a championship. Winning too quickly is terrible for the business side of things when the team declines. I do believe there is waiting list of 19,000 but I don't believe there is a waiting list of 19,000 that will pay $80/ticket. They need to expand at all price points and include some cheap seats. If all that's offered is prime expensive seating, many on that list will pass and see what they can get next year.
Watching the game on CBC on Saturday, they showed the sparsly populated East stand and made a comment about a "train issue" being the reason much of the crowd was late. I agree whole heartedly on the price point issue. But I'd find it very surprising if MLSE went the route of charging people less for these new 8000 seats. Look at the North Stand as a reference point. Plus they'd have to pay for the expansion cost....it could be pricey. As someone who'd debated the season's seat route, but usually buys singles....I'm taking a wait and see approach here.
I think it would be folly to do anything but plan for expansion until the team has turned the corner on the field. Additionally, it would also be folly to start taking prices up to any great degree at least until the team is a contender and even then still. To expand too early while the team is mediocre is to do nothing but ensure that TFC is playing in front of a half empty stadium. In and of itself, when the team on the field warrants a larger stadium, I've no issue with it. As long as those seats are pretty much filled, it's a good thing. The more money the team makes means the more amenable the corporate masters will be to spending more money on DP's IMO.
Ah, ok, well an issue is not the same as an incident. Unintentionally, I think you made it sound like TFC supporters may have created an incident on the GO Train. I'm pleased to hear that this was not the case. I guess we can assume that there was some sort of service disruption.
Exactly. In the past there has always been a supposed huge waiting list for seasons tickets, but MLSE has always remind numb to the idea of expansion...even the north end addition this year was almost an after thought with the grass. Why all of a sudden the urge to cater to masses? Especially when as you just said the product has been mediocre to the point that you've will have 5 coaches in 4 years? Is it possible that they want a winter classic so much they'd actually consider an expansion in order to land one? That seems a bit extreme....I dunno....it's just weird all around.
I don't think so. That would be pound foolish. That's one thing MLSE isn't. They also realize that they have other priorities at BMO such as ensuring that ticket demand remains stable. I do believe that raising the season ticket limit to 18k is very wise. I predict that north end will be snapped up. I love those seats. Obviously I won't be moving from the south but if I had to, the north would be a fine second choice. Better sight lines.
I don't buy the 19k waiting list. I thing it's bs. The stadium looks more and more empty with every passing game and even some of the most hardened supporters are sick of the ********ing nonsense that is this franchise. I say franchise, not club because this is nothing but a business to MLSE. The joke's on you. Anyway, I have a feeling 4 more tickets might be up for grabs next year. ******** this team.
The report I'm hearing is that either Peddie or Anselmi did indeed talk to Gary Bettman sometime this week about hosting a Winter Classic. They would raise the capacity to 30,000 seats but the new seats would only be for the hockey game.
wow, then the Leafs have this down pat, they should be really good at business and make lots of mon.......oh wait.
I've heard this as well, but the speech directly talks about expansion where TFC is concerned. I don't think MLSE would go through all the trouble of adding 8000 temp seats.....it would chew into their clean revenue from a Winter Classic...make them permanent and they can make more money off of them. Its the mlse way.
Very true. In fact, this is probably the main reason I don't go to more games. As it is, I've got about a three hour trip each way to see a game. I'd love to go two or three times per year (which is what my other commitments in life might allow). That said, I'm not willing to pay $70 per ticket (figure a minimum of two since I'm unlikely to go alone so $140) on top of everything else. Especially not to see a mediocre team play a generic opponent like Dallas or KC or Colorado or whoever to a 0-0 draw. There's a lot I can do near home for $200 (tickets plus gas, parking, etc.) that outweighs my desire to see TFC live. Now at $25 or $30 per ticket the equation starts to change. I realize I'm not TFC's target market but the ability to draw in fans from farther afield would certainly help fill a 30 000 seat stadium.
To my uneducated eye, the east side could easily come down and be replaced by a twin to the west stand. The east side is only made of steel girders as a base. The west side has a concrete base for the lower level, with steel girders used on the second level. Duplicating the west stand on the east side would allow MLSE to offer tickets at all price points from the cheapest ticket to private boxes. Furthermore, the south end is constructed the same way as the east side. They could do the same thing at the end and create a horseshoe. The supporters sections would not be affected since the current south stand rises to the same level as the lower stand on the west side. You would end up with a horseshoe that contained two levels of seating and a ring of private boxes.
Hi guys. I wandered in here because my newsreader happened to catch a tribalfootball.com (usually an unreputable source) article, and I was seeing what the verification was. Architecturally, I don't think there's any choice. Whether it's adding corners, an upper deck, or making one deck bigger, all the available options are basically adding cheap seats. And that's why I think the Winter Classic could be a tipping point. If demand exceeds supply, there's two ways to resolve it: create more supply, or charge a higher price. The former comes with a big capital cost, and adds mostly cheap seats, so TFC never had that much incentive to do it. Why not just charge more instead? (Don't get me wrong, you sell more beer in a 30,000 seater than you do in a 20,000 seater with expensive tickets, and you probably get more media coverage at that level of attendance, but I'm thinking it might not have been enough.) (Oh, also note, more supply will be created for next year anyway, as the league's schedule will be going to 34 games.) But the Winter Classic might provide the incentive. Even at a 30,000 capacity, that game would have so much demand that you could still charge a fortune for even the cheapest tickets. And of course the NHL wants a bigger audience, as the spectacle is part of the point.
Lol trust me MLSE has that covered on all fronts....they raise season tickets prices every year and we already have the most expensive tickets in the league by a fair margin. With regards to the actual expansion details, filling in the corners is a no-go, something to do with Canadian Fire code laws? (I'm not 100% sure about this...but I have read it somewhere in the past). A double tier on the east stand makes sense but then it would piss off some of the people who like the view of the skyline (I don't really get the preoccupation with the view of the skyline...but it's definately something people get passionate about...). So that leaves the south end being double tiered, which is probably the way they intended to go anyway....I'm just wondering what the plans are regarding infrastructure witihin the stadium, the bathrooms have enough problems supporting 20k. This is all speculative^ with all the turmoil with this team I don't see MLSE doing anything this off season...but this winter classic seems to have them salivating at the opportunity. $'s make MLSE get a chubby.
I think a full expansion of the East stand will require expansion of all of the accompanying facilities. To that end, mirroring the west stand is probably not the best route to follow since the west stand feeds all of its seats from a single level, limiting the available space for bathrooms and snack stands. The west stand also houses the major stadium facilities: offices, dressing rooms and media boxes, things that don't need to be duplicated on the east side. I fully understand why people have grown attached to the city view from the east side, I've sat up in the second tier of the west stand and it looks pretty cool and great on TV. But nonetheless that shouldn't get in the way of making a sensible expansion to the east stand. And of course, although a two-tier east stand wouldn't necessarily look cool on TV, but would give a better impression of the stadium as the east stand looks pretty bush league as it is right now.
Yeah, like I say, up to now it's always been the easier thing to do. They've had the waiting list that has allowed them to get away with it, and building more seats gets you more revenue but has a capital cost, where charging more gets you more revenue without a capital cost. It's kinda sad, but not really surprising to me, that this is the way they'd go.
Funny thing is the orginal CSA design implemented deeper seating in the North end and it looks like the West end wraps with the North... My estimates is that this stadium was about 30,000 seats give or take.
I'm on the 2nd level west side, and though the view is nice, I'd rather be looking at a second tier with almost-full seats on the east instead of a half-empty east side like now.
BMO is going to host the Pan American Soccer matches which should lead to expansion asap..ticket prices wont stop people from buying seasons seats, it has not stopped Leaf fans and they have been the crappiest sports franchise for over 43 years!! TFC will get better and BMO bigger.