I need help picking a Bundesliga Club, but first, here is a little history on me so that you know where I am coming from: I began watching soccer during the 2002 World Cup. At least, that is the first time I remember caring in the slightest sense about soccer outside of my own playing days. Like any other kid, I rooted for the USA, but like most other Americans, I chose a second country. We, as Americans, choose a second country because we lack exciting play, tradition, and a real soccer experience; although that is improving. At that time, I had just learned that my family was from Germany and decided to follow them. They went to the final and lost to Brazil, but I found myself in enjoyment watching the Germans play. I didn't follow soccer again until the 2006 Word Cup, despite buying the annual FIFA video game. In 2006, I followed Germany closer than 2002, but it still didn't mean much to me. It was more about following what the rest of the world was, and feeling apart of it. This was also the beginning of my hate for the Italians as I noticed an absurd amount of diving. Again, I didn't follow it for a while. Then in my sophomore year of college, I moved in with two friends. One played soccer his whole life and is an avid USA National Team supporter and would occasionally watched a good club match on tv. The other is Belgian and from France, so naturally, he enjoys soccer and follows Barcelona to good extent. In May of 2008, I watched the Champions League Final between Manchester United and Chelsea FC. The match was a really exciting one that ended with penalties. Right after that ended, the 2008 European Championships were beginning and I decided to follow it because I enjoyed the Champions League final and I liked Germany. I followed very closely and really began to appreciate the beauty of soccer. Germany played well and were exciting, but lost in the final to Spain. After the Euro's ended, I didn't follow any club soccer. I really only knew 3 friends who liked soccer and none of them were big club league followers. In the beginning of my junior year, I became closer with two guys who are now some of the best friends I've ever had and they are responsible for my current soccer-obsessed self. They provided a ton of knowledge and history that really sparked my interest of the beautiful game, even if they tend to be biased.....but who isn't, right? Early 2009, I began to watch club games on tv. As I watched, I also tried to study up on teams and leagues. I wanted to pick a club to follow. I went about it the wrong way. I tried to find teams with cool stadiums, cool cities, nice uniforms, and other dumb things that should not go into picking a club. I wanted to pick a German club, but I couldn't find decent forums where I could talk with other people about the matches that were in English. They were all in German. Although, I've been following Big Soccer for a while without membership, but I found it long after I had chosen Chelsea as my club. Anyway, after realizing that it would be too difficult to follow a German club team with the lack of informational access, I decided to choose an English team. I knew I could follow it closely and I knew that the English league was known as the best in the world. I had looked a lot of clubs and I had come down to two clubs, Chelsea and Newcastle. I knew that I wouldn't stay interested if I chose a team that got relegated and Newcastle was on the verge of their eventual downfall at the time. I chose Chelsea, mainly because it was in London and they had Michael Ballack. Over the past 18 months, my opinion and knowledge of the game has changed severely. I used to hate the Italian game because of the empty stadiums, racism, diving, and corruption. And while those things still exist and take a toll on my interest of the league, the style of play, consisting of wonderful passing, is quite fun to watch. I used to have no interest in La Liga....and I still don't. Ok, so that hasn't changed. Sorry, but there isn't anything fun about a 2-team race every year. The style of play is fun to watch, but the league itself doesn't bring much excitement as far as a title race goes. Lately, I have found the Premier League a little more boring. Italy, Spain, and Germany are all creative, pass-happy leagues that have good academies and develop fun soccer to watch. England is long-ball happy and can be quite dreary. The only team that doesn't play to England's formula, is Arsenal, but they are simply a poor-man's Barcelona. Even high-scoring teams like Chelsea, although fun at times, can be quite boring with their set-up play. The individual talent in England can be exciting to watch when unleashed, but the majority of games are slow, with the occasional burst of excitement. Other leagues have continuous excitement throughout the match. And don't get me wrong, I have much respect for the Premier League and I do enjoy it, especially the atmosphere of the old pitches and the vocal supporters, but not as much as I enjoy the Bundesliga. I have found the Bundesliga to be the most exciting and promising league in Europe. The title is always up for grabs and it can almost go to anyone. The league's academy system is second to none in the world and is producing great talent to play in front of the best attendance of any league in the world, with the cheapest prices of the major European leagues, in the best collection of stadiums a country provides, in a league that is has no shortage of excitement. I followed Chelsea as close as someone can, short of actually living in England, this past year. And when Chelsea finally won the title on the last day of the season, I wasn't excited. I was relieved that they didn't blow it. I chose a team that has been nothing but successful as long as I have known them. The day I chose Chelsea, Guus Hiddink became manager and Chelsea has been phenomenal ever since. When Chelsea loses, I'm pissed, but when they win, I'm simply relieved. I haven't been a Chelsea fan long enough to know their suffering. I know fans who have been following Chelsea long before Roman took over and so, they don't take wins for granted and they truly felt the joy when Chelsea won the league. I didn't choose Chelsea because they were the best. They weren't at the time; Manchester United was. I chose Chelsea mostly because of Michael Ballack and I knew they would be in contention and keep my interest because of it. However, because they have been so successful and because Roman will be around for a while and keep them this successful, I will never understand the suffering, and therefore, never feel the joy. I have come to decide that I am still young in my soccer fanhood and that it is time for change. I will always follow and support Chelsea and follow them closely, but to call myself a TRUE Chelsea fan would be a lie. It's a slap in the face to real Chelsea supporters and it isn't satisfying my love of soccer. Chelsea will always be a secondary team of mine and will always be in my heart as the club that began my soccer fanhood. But it is time for me to find MY club. A club that has loyal, vocal, and traveling supporters. A club that builds their squad the right way. A club that plays a style to my liking. A club that has players whom I respect. But most of all, a club that simply catches my eye more than any other. This isn't a decision that can be made lightly. I won't be picking a team before the start of the season. I know that I want to follow a club in the Bundesliga, but I don't know which one. My goal is to watch as many Bundesliga matches as possible this season, read as much as I can each week about the clubs and their fans, keep up with what is going on behind the scenes at each club, and look into their academies and their youth players. At the end of the year, I will decide which Bundesliga club I will follow. I know that whichever club I choose, every win will mean something and every loss will hurt. I know that I won't know immediate success and therefore appreciate success when it finally comes. The one Bundesliga club that I will not be a fan of, is Bayern Munich, for the same reason I will no longer consider myself a true Chelsea supporter. I am looking into numerous categories that I will take into consideration, but in the end, I believe that one club with catch my eye and I will simply KNOW that they are the club for me. This could even happen before the end of the season, but I don't want to make a quick decision and regret it. The things that I will really be looking into are: Fans- Loyalty? Size of fanbase? Vocal abilities? Class? Upper Management- Is the team in heavy debt? Is the club headed in the right direction? How is the youth system? Style of Play- I can appreciate all styles of play, but I like smooth passing, quickness, and possession (eg.: Arsenal, Barca, etc.). Formations- This isn't a big deal, I don't really have a preference in formations, but I would love to know what each team tends to play for my own knowledge. Players I Like- Obviously, I'd like to pick a squad with some young players that have exciting futures like Mario Götze, Lennart Thy, Lars Bender, etc. Other fun facts- I am always interested in fun facts about clubs. For example, I love that St. Pauli is known for being on the far left of politics (as I am). Things like that are always cool to know. So, I have trimmed my list to 12 clubs: Borussia Dortmund Hamburg Stuttgart Kaiserslaughtern St. Pauli Werder Bremen Hoffenheim Köln Schalke Borussia Mönchengladbach Wolfsburg Hannover If you are a fan of any of these 12 clubs, tell me what you can about the categories I shared and anything else you think I should know. I should add that history of success and winning is not of my concern. I am no glory-hunter. Thanks for all your help! -Hollyweird
Sounds a lot like how I became a fan of the Bundesliga. I started following the MLS after forming a slight interest in the sport from watching the World Cup, and I noticed almost everybody has a English team they root for. I eventually just settled on following Manchester United mostly because it's one of the easiest teams to follow to be able to watch the games online for and like you, I liked to see them win but there was never a sense of accomplishment when they did. Over the course of 3 or 4 seasons, I watched them win the Champions League, top the Premier League, and nearly pull off a treble but during all of it, I never really felt any hardcore attachment to the team other than "this is who I root for, I hope they win". At least nothing close to the love I developed for DC United, who pretty much got me into the sport after just a few games in the hockey off-season. The summer after Manchester United won the league, I went down to Florida to visit my grandparents and one day I was wearing a ManU jersey someone had given me and my grandfather brought it up that he had seen them play a few times. I was kind of surprised because I didn't even know he watched football, all I had ever heard him talk about was golf. He told me about it for awhile, and then he started talking about the "home" team he used to follow, FC Nürnberg. He told me about going back in the 60's and watching them win the league. It was pretty amazing all the stuff he remembered, names of players and funny stuff about them, goals scored that turned the tides of games. I had never really thought about my last name and what it meant but we talked about it for awhile and he told me some about my great grandparents and about Germany and Nürnberg, it definitely changed my perspective on not just the country but Europe as a whole, before that day I had no plans or strong desire to visit. Anyway, when I found out I had family from Germany, I was lucky enough to find not only where they came from when they immigrated but that I still had family living there so needless to say hearing my grandfather tell me about it made me feel somewhat of an attachment to where they used to live in Nürnberg. When I got home, I looked up the club, read up on some of the history of the team and the city (found some really interesting stuff, like for instance, the club was formed on my birthday), and marked my calendar for the start of their schedule. To make a long story short, over the next few seasons I grew really attached to the team and something that originally started as a way to keep me preoccupied in the hockey off-season quickly became my main focus. I've been lucky enough to have visited the city, and seen the team play in the Frankenstadion, not to mention meet some of my family I might never have otherwise known about or met. I can't give much advice on any of the teams you mentioned but the best advice I can give is find a team that really means something to you, something you can personally identify with, because whatever team it is won't always be good no matter how good they are now (there is a fairly good level of parity in the Bundesliga aside from the obvious 2 or 3 powerhouse clubs) and they won't always have winning seasons (as an FCN fan I can attest to that, they hold the record for most times relegated and promoted ) but when you have a real connection to the team, it makes the good times all that much greater.
Thanks for the reply! I don't expect many people on the board to read my long post. I enjoyed your story and will keep it in mind. My family derives from Hannover, so I will definitely looking further into the 96. However, my family moved to San Francisco before any team in the Bundesliga was created.
Might post more later, but for now here's one topic for you to consider: How you are going to watch the games? Not sure about you, but for me I really want to watch every match. - Even if you have ESPN 360 and Gol TV, I'd say the best you will get, even if you pick a bigger club that is more likely to be televised, (like say Dortmund) is 50% of the time you can catch it through one of these channels. If you pick a smaller club you might get them 4-5 times the whole year. The one exception is Bayern who will be on 100% of the time, but they aren't on your list (thankfully). - If you have satellite there is a German Sports station that shows all the games. There's been posts about it on the forums you could find or else someone with it can explain. It is rather expensive I believe. I think it also shows some Bundesliga II matches (which would be a consideration when thinking of smaller clubs) - If you want to watch every match then the best option is to subscribe to the team's TV service. Costs vary by club (surprisingly Monchengladbach's is quite expensive) but generally ~$50 will get you a 12 month subscription that will let you watch replays of every match (usually up 1 hour or so after the game ends) and also plenty of post match comments and interviews, etc. You can also do smaller subscription plans of 3 or 6 months. Some people can't tolerate not watching matches live. It doesn't bother me in the slightest since the games in the US are on quite early and I prefer to watch everything later with a nice beer in my hand. But for some people they can't stand it. Also, if you select a club that could very well be playing in Bundesliga II in the near future, this option still works great. (Of the teams you are considering Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg do not have a TV service to my knowledge, also some such as Bayern I don't think have actual match replays but just highlights and news, so definitely research it before signing up) - Try to find the free streams out there through the menagerie of streaming sights. I hate the things because they are so unreliable. Streams going down, bad quality, viruses, etc. I think I get more frustration than enjoyment using them. It is better than nothing, but not by much.
i read an ad on ESPN3 that they're going to have over 800+ matches in various European Leagues for this upcoming season, so that's a good source for catching good matches as I'd assume there will b quite a few Bundesliga and Pokal matches on there. As for choosing a team, I'd say Bayern but u've already eliminated them. But let the team choose u. there will definitely b that one team that catches ur eye and it will click and there u go. (plz don't choose Schalke tho, ppl here will post pics that will give u nitemares. at least they gave me nitemares just a warning ). good luck!
I watched the Bundesliga all season last year, but from an objective standpoint. I wasn't looking for a squad, I just enjoy the Bundesliga atmosphere and style of play.
Go and buy the Book TOR (History of German soccer)by Ulrich Hesse-Lichtenberger it's a great book gives you a nice history of the teams . Maybe you can choose one by their history [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Tor-German-Football-Ulrich-Hesse-Lichtenberger/dp/095401345X"]Amazon.com: Tor!: The Story of German Football (9780954013455): Ulrich Hesse-Lichtenberger: Books[/ame]
The best way really is to watch the league for a while and see which team sticks out for you. I know this is a cliché answer and probably isn't the one you wanted to see, but it really is the best way to find a team. For example, I am a Leverkusen fan because I am attracted to the way they play the game. They always get young players who provide good entertainment (Barnetta, Augusto, Derdiyok, Kiessling, etc etc.), they go towards goal, and are always competitive. Plus, when we finally do win something it will be so, so sweet. If you're going to insist on limiting yourself to those teams, it'll be tough to get every single point on your wishlist. Dortmund, for instance, has a huge following and the best stadium in the Bundesliga, but are debt-ridden. Schalke has huge support as well, but their financial situation isn't great either. Hamburg has a nice stadium and is in great financial shape but their management is far from ideal. Like I said, you're going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere. And now to the biased part of the post: support Leverkusen. Here's why: You'd fit right in, then. We're a competitive team but we just haven't been able to win that illusive piece of silverware (save for the 1988 UEFA Cup). Like I said, though, we are always in the hunt. In 2002, we finished second in the Bundesliga, the DFP Cup, and the Champions League. Talk about disappointment... Played and currently plays for Bayer Leverkusen. Lars Bender plays for Bayer Leverkusen. Furthermore, Leverkusen is basically the definition of "a squad with ... young players that have exciting futures." That's the club's philosophy. Here's a breakdown of the age of our players: 19: Jorgensen, Kampl 20: Risse, Kaplan, Giefer 21: Schwaab, Reinartz, Bender, Vida 22: Augusto, Hegeler, Sam, Derdiyok 23: Vidal, Castro And it goes on and on. As far as finances go, Leverkusen is in great shape. Management is also good (Rudi Voller). The only "down side" you could point to with us is a lack of a large fan base. See, we need you!
You make a good pitch for Leverkusen, I must say. The reason they weren't on my list was because of a major lack of atmosphere and fan support. But, I shall consider it.
Absolutely. However, I work in the film industry in Los Angeles and my schedule is always packed. But when I finally get an extended period of vacation, I plan on heading to Germany.
1 to 5 scale! (Will do more in increments, this is kinda fun!) Hamburg Fans: 4 (Passionate, but a bit spoiled. Doesn't take kindly to underperformance) Upper Management: 1 (Hoffmann is a buffoon, and that isn't just about Veh and Reinhardt) Finances: 5 (Along with Wolfsburg they have the most money after Bayern) Style of Play: 3 (I'd say a 4 for the first half of last season and a 2 for the 2nd half. They're capable of being exciting and have the roster for it, but my god were they boring in the last few months with Labbadia (this could be due exclusively to the players quitting on him though). Unclear how it will pan out now with Veh in charge) Players: 3 (They buy talent. They don't produce it. See exhibit A (Sidney Sam). However, they do have some characters like Frank Rost (although he will be less in the spotlight now with Drobny coming), veterans like Ze Roberto, Jarolim and Nistelrooy. They also have a couple exciting younger players like Elia, Berg, Pitroipa.) City: 5 (Really cool place to visit. Classy) Schalke Fans: 5 (Crazily supportive, capable of dealing with the hardships that come with being a Schalke fan, the support after the Bremen loss for finishing 2nd in BL was touching and show cases the love of the fans for their club. Downside? Often criticized as not being the brightest bunch) Upper Management: 3 (Sort of a pendulum here, actual management is not too brilliant putting the club in their current debt laden situation through the stadium deal, but they have put Magath into management. Of course...who knows when Magath will leave for greener pastures) Finances: 2 (Riddled with debt, nearly went bankrupt, if not for the auto CL qualification they would probably be holding a fire-sale on half the roster this summer. Still, they have *some* money to play with and are better off than a lot of clubs) Style of Play: 1 (Tactically disciplined, defensively organized and strong at playing the long ball and scoring off set pieces. Lots of 1-0 and 0-0 can occur. This would be the opposite of the open, free flowing, possession game you like. Could change in the future though considering lots of youths rising into the 1st team) Players: 4 (Many talented youngsters with a couple of veterans. Howedes, Rakitic, Moritz, Kenia, Matip, Papadopoulos, etc. And that doesn't even name several strong ones out on loan like Holtby. The future looks good) City: 1 (Have not personally been, but considering it is avoided like the bubonic plague... At least it has a nice stadium I suppose)
I'm liking Stuttgart. I love their young players like Ulreich, Rudy, Gebhart, and Khedira, just to name a few. I'm a big fan of Pogrebnyak as well. Can someone tell me more about their supporters and general thoughts on the club?
Well, IF you get a chance...try to make a trip to the Westfalenstadion in Dortmund. It is a total mind blowing, face melting experience!!! Also, if you like upcoming players, take a look at Mats Hummels, Sven bender, Kevin Grossgreutz and Mario Goetze from Dortmund. Other players to watch from BvB...Nuri Sahin and Lucas Barrios.
last season we played a 4-2-3-1 with pressing style. The problem with Dortmund is that the style of play by Klopp usually has us exhausted by the end of the match. I think someone had stats that indicated that if all matches ended in 70 minutes rather than 90, we would have won the league. I think we played fast with pace and but everyone contributed very much to defense as well. the style was similar to Germany without all the talent. I hear we might be looking at a 4-4-2 for next season as we will have Lewandowski and Barrios up front as strikers. We'll see...
Well, Borussia appears to be the favorite at the moment. I like everything about BvB except their debt, but they seem to be heading in the right direction. I think I will be following 4 teams in the upcoming season: BvB Werder Vfb Cologne If I end up picking Dortmund, I will be coming to the Dortmund forum asking about all of the traditions, songs, and other things I should know, aside from the history, which I can read up on.
You may feel free to post there any time if you like. We are a pretty mellow sort of bunch but there are some posters there like Footyfan1 and Smithfan that have a wealth of info... Are there any here to begin with???
Their hymne is really moving and their supporters are truly admirable considering their lack of success.
Stuttgart fans are good. Not in a category like Frankfurt, Schalke, Dortmund, but you have to understand there are actually other things to do in Stuttgart than just football . Definitely a team that sells out. They are in the process of increasing their stadium capacity, which is supposed to be done 2nd half of 2011. They have a new sponsor, Gazi, who is like a Turkish food vendor. Last 2 years they've tanked the first half of the year and then went on a rampage the 2nd half. Maybe this year they can be more consistent. They topped the table in points if you just looked at the 2nd half of last year's season.