[Awe-Inspiring]

Was this year's Brazil World Cup championship team the greatest ever?

You can make an argument for it.

Their 18 goals for, 4 against is a differential of 14, the highest ever for a champion.

They won all of their games (only the '38 Italy, '70 Brazil and '98 France teams can also make that claim).

They did not need an overtime to win any of their knockout matches (since the Round of 16 format has been in place, only the '86 Argentina team can also make that claim).

They were the only team to give up a goal first and come back to win in regulation in the knockout round.

Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos and Cafu are legends; Ronaldihno showed promise of becoming one; Kleberson also displayed amazing skill.

On most of these boards, before this year's Cup the '70 Brazil team was the consensus greatest team ever.

In the aftermath of WC '02, the question must now be asked.

Was the '02 Brazil team the greatest ever?

[Samarkand]

Ahhh! yes, impressive statistics, but the difference is that the Brazil '70 team never looked like losing a game.

The '02 incarnation looked vulnerable against both Turkey and Germany in the semi and the final. There is even a case to be made that Costa Rica shook them up a little, and Belgium might have turned them over had what seemed a good goal not been disallowed.

The toughest game the '70 team had was the 1-0 win over England. The '02 team, while very good, did not have the same swagger.

[lanman]

Originally posted by Awe-Inspiring
...Their 18 goals for, 4 against is a differential of 14, the highest ever for a champion...

But not the highest ever.

In 1954 Hungary scored 27 and conceded 10 in 5 games for +17.
Also Brazil 1970 were +12 in 1 less game, which equates to the same average.

[Awe-Inspiring]

Originally posted by lanman


Also Brazil 1970 were +12 in 1 less game, which equates to the same average.

And admittedly the '70 Brazil team scored 1 more goal in one less game, by tallying 19 goals in only six games. And, true, the '70 team won each single-elimination game by at least two goals.

Arguments like these are why my thread title has a question mark in it. The '02 Brazil team's record was impressive and has not been the subject of much comment. However, examined in the perspective of this thread, what this team accomplished perhaps has been underappreciated.

Do those of you who say the '70 team gets the nod think the '02 Brazil team was the second-greatest?

And how would they have matched up were it possible for them to have played each other at their best?

[Bauser]

Brazil '02 avoided too many of the heavyweighters on the route to the title to be considered second best team in history. Stats and numbers are fine and fun to experiment with, but they never tell the whole truth.

[Sao Taffarel]

France also avoided the so called heavyweights butlooked what happended to them! Turkey are up to 7th in the FIFA rankings Perhaps thre is a new world order. Re the 1970 team, PERHAPS England gave them their toughest game, but the players might make a case for the QF v those 'orrible Uruguayans.

[Awe-Inspiring]

Originally posted by Sao Taffarel
Re the 1970 team, PERHAPS England gave them their toughest game, but the players might make a case for the QF v those 'orrible Uruguayans.

They'd probably make an even better case for the semifinal game, in which Uruguay was actually their opponent. They played Peru in the quarterfinals (and won decisively 4-2).