I thought it would be worth bringing up, what does everyone think it would take to begin to fill the stands at Dicks? After going to the home opener last week against Chicago I was honestly a little embarrassed by the lack of any type of a crowd (11,641 officially) considering it was the home opener!?? I was disappointed with the attendance last season and so far we are off to an even worse start this year... Do you think it is because we have missed the playoffs since moving to Dicks, is it because we don't have any big name "star" (DP type players), is it because of a lack of advertising, ticket prices, etc... What does everyone think?
I just know the reason that I don't go to as many games as I used to. For me, it's all about how much it costs to go. I am a high school teacher. My wife is a stay-at-home mom. I have four children ages 8,6,4, and 2. When the Rapids were at Invesco, they allowed kids under 5 free, which was great for us, plus ticket prices were lower. We would get a half season pass every year. First year at Dick's we got the half season pass in the lowest price category possible, but had to pay for 4 tickets at the time. After that, we have only gone to a few games. I have been to one or two trying to get tickets for cheap from people trying to get rid of theirs before they go in. I have done a couple of buy one get one free deals, but that's really it. I just don't have it in my family budget to pay the face value prices. I will probably go to one or two games again this season trying to look for deals, but it's all about the price of tickets for me.
Taking out half of the seats (so that 9k would "fill the stands") would be the quickest solution? More seriously ... winning. Nothing succeeds like success. Moves towards winning? A top coach to replace our on-the-job training project and a DP, probably in the midfield and capable of making all of the players around him better.
Being a couple of thousand miles from Dick's, I viewed the match on Telemundo. The stands visible to TV were 75% empty. Unless the remainder of the stands were as packed as was the supporter's terrace, the true numbers most likely were in the 4 digits, perhaps the low 4 digits. The answer to your question is complex: 1) Easter week-end hurt attendance. 2) the Rapids must offer a product the fans are willing to come and see inorder to boost attendance. 3) Dick's has provided a sterile atmosphere. 4) Missing the playoffs year after year hurts. 5) Moreover, with scattered holes in the 1st choice selection & no credible back-ups, expectations for good football cannot be very high. 6) Advertising stinks, but what is there to hype? 7) Etc.
I'd say the history of the team was the #2 reason - the focus on the family market = the #1 reason and with it being Easter weekend - lotta families outta town. Here's something I just can't seem to figure - nobody really seems to excited about the team or the players. Despite Clark, Cummings, Mastroeni, and Casey - people don't get to amped for the players. It would seem to me, the last time people were excited about the actual players and the play of the team dates all the way back to 2005. I continue to say - the biggest mistake this team has done - is build the team around Mastroeni - specifically, a defensive player that provides zilch entertainment value. $300,000 spent on non-entertainment. Think of what that could buy us out there.
The beauty of this post is that it tells you exactly by what percentage to discount the negativity in WJ’s posts. I always figured it was 30% but now I see clearly its more.
I think this is part of it. It's not just that Mastro's a defender. Hejduk's a defender but he also has personality on the field. The team is totally devoid of charisma. The money players shun attention. The most exciting player is gee-wiz shy. Right now the only player who walks on the field acknowledging that there are fans in the stands is Kimura. Winning helps as well, but some of these guys look like their jobs a real burden to them.
Very insightful! The Rapids are devoid of charisma. MLS is limited in charisma. Having good players is a good thing. Having great payers is a better thing. But to get the "buzz", having at least one talismanic player, one charismatic player, one charismatic coach, one thoughtful, flamboyant GM, one interested and visible owner who tugs at fans heartstrings, who titillates reporters imaginations is crucial for team building & for league building. Love them or hate them these personality type permeate a community. Jerry Jones vs Stan Kroenke, José Mourinho vs Gary Smith, Thierry Henry vs the entire Rapids roster. Who has the buzz? Who excites you? Who could excite a community?
Personally I think a bigger mistake would be building a team around a marketable player instead of a good one. I have no problem with the Rapids decision to make Mastroeni a lynch pin of the team given his quality. Why spend $300K on marketable players iof the team is going to suck by playing them (Christian Gomez anyone?). Of course you could do both, but that would require a coach and FO capable of putting together a team like that, which has been the real failure of the organization.
One of truly great things about opinion is that each of us is entitled to our own. On this issue, I side with Deron and I am somewhat mystified by Jasonma. 1) Who among us advocates for a marketable player who is not believed to be a good player? 2) What is Mastroeni's "quality"? Mastroeni was never an exceptional talent, a lynch pin or a marketable player. He has always been a role player with limited skill and usefulness. He has never been a talismanic player or a charismatic player. On the pitch, at his best, he serves a role. Off the pitch he is invisible. His agent fooled an easily deceived Rapids FO that his aging one trick pony was being sought elsewhere. Thus, he became the Rapids “Face” to the community; a somber, brooding face never seen in the media. To the media, to MLS to the soccer world Mastroeni is boring! 3) Gomez was an MLS "star" never a soccer "star". Moreover, Gomez' real impact on the Rapids remains mysterious. Our "charismatic" coach was not interested in what Gomez could bring to the pitch, to the Rapids. Gomez had 20appearances for the Rapids, some 1st choice some off the bench. Gomez impact was minimal. Was that a reflection of Gomez or the Accent? 3) Must the choice be a good player or a marketable one? I think not. Currently, the Rapids have too few good players and no marketable ones.
Denver is a winners town. Win and people pay attention. Miss the playoff three years in a row and who cares. The Rapids could spend some money on marketing. While they have done some new things this year with the scavenger hunt, I think this team needs a professional re-introduction to Denver. Stop raising ticket prices. Read the chapter on elasticity of pricing in your college economics book. I think someone good at marketing can market a boring player.
For those interested here are some numbers. I've been tracking attendance for the past two seasons. In 2008 the average attendance was 13,659. Max was 18,776 and min was 10,609. In 2009 the average attendance was 12,319. Max was 19,680 and min was 6,234. Between the two years average dropped 9.8%. Max increased 4.8%. Min dropped 41.2%. In 2008 the season opener drew 18,713. In 2009 the season opener drew 11,885, a 36% drop. In 2010 the season opener drew 11,641, a 2% year-over-year drop and a 38% drop from two years ago. I don't have 2007 numbers for the opening of DSG Park. I'll have to go find them.
I'm equally mystified at the idea that building the team around Mastroeni was the biggest mistake the Rapids have made recently because Mastroeni isn't marketable. I don't go to the game to see marketable players, I go to see good soccer. (Well obviously I don't because I'm going to Rapids games, but you know what I mean). The NASL tried the marketable approach by overpaying for marketable players and it, along with other factors, led to the demise of the NASL. Marx, you say that Gomez impact was minimal, and I agree. But the Rapids used their DP slot to get a star player in the form of Gomez. If his impact was minimal then the strategy of getting s tar player to build the team around failed, which was my point. Its absolutely possible to get a star player that's marketable and good, but I can't think of a player the Rapids FO acquired that's accomplished that at any point in their history. Spencer was close, but never really was the sole face fo the team. Balboa achieved that, but he was the marquee player given to the Rapids (at Anshutz's insistence) when the league was founded, he was not acquired by the Rapids FO. Given the track record of the Rapids FO the choice seems to be between a good player and a marketable one. Given that, I'll take the good player every time. (and I disagree with your opinion of Mastroeni's quality, but that's off-topic for this discussion)
Ok, 2007 numbers: Average: 14,749 Min: 10,677 Max: 18,458 Drop in average attendance from 2007 to 2009: 16.5% I also do a forecast using the MS Excel forecast formula. Based on the attendance from 2008 and 2009 my forecast for 2010 average attendance is 10,887. I was 1,151 low on my forecast last year. So hopefully the average is more like 12K in 2010. I hope.
Average by season: 1996 10213 1997 11835 1998 14812 1999 14029 2000 12580 2001 16481 2002 20690 2003 16772 2004 14195 2005 13638 2006 12056 2007 14749 2008 13659 2009 12331
The trend line has us with +/- 8k attendance and as a USL expansion team in 2014? (But not in Omaha.) ;>)
I don't think anyone thinks it's an either/or choice. However, pretty much all pro clubs in all sports have a hard enough time identifying good players and acquiring them without overpaying (in salary, trade price, transfer fees, etc.). Trying to factor in marketability as well seems to reduce the likelihood of good judgments.
Maxwell - you baffle me with this!!! The team that payed for marketable players set the still standing attendance record at Giants Stadium!!! NASL failed because it didn't have equality - so the Cosmos were able to do it ... no others were. In MLS, the teams that have gone out and gotten marketable players (Ljundberg, Blanco, Beckam ...) have done fine at the ticket booth. The Rapids CAN go out and get ONE marketable player - the league is set up for it - our owner can afford it. Yes winning will help (but how long do we need to keep winning to undo the previous decade and reverse the trend?) Deron is right - it is about charisma. In the past, we've had Henderson, Balboa, Cannon, Limpar, Spencer, Dely Valdes, Harris, Chung, Valderamma, Bravo, Cookie, Paz ... Those guys are beloved players. They also were full of charisma. Think of how excited people were for Grimandi (the prick!) Certainly Omar and Clark could follow suit ... but fans aren't as into them as those past players why? Could it be that our central midfield lacks creativity and our game plan is up the wings and over the top and that's not a brand of soccer that doesn't provide excitement? I'm not sure. I'm struggling to figure out why I'm not fully enthralled by the team myself! It's been this way since FC was appointed coach. It's complicated. It's 15 years of history. It's KSE's track record outside of building the stadium. It's a crap load of things! I'm afraid at this point, if we don't have a KILLER season - a DP may be needed to get things on track. Not to win ... but so send the message - stir the pot - wake up some sleepers. If we have a good season in the standings this year - I think the only thing it's going to do is stop the bleeding. A big signing could actually turn the trend in the other direction (along with winning). Trade Mastroeni - put that $300K into paying a good marketable player $1M and you'll need only to generate an average of 2,500 tickets a game to pay for it! A lot less if that guy is someone that can sell shirts.
A team. Take a look at what some of the other teams tried to do in order to keep up. The players they brought in and the prices they paid to get "marketable stars". Yeah, but do you trust Plush/Bravo/Smith to get a marketable star that actually appeals to soccer fans in Denver AND improves the team? Based on their track record so far I don't. Wait, wait, wait. Most of those names I could dig into the archives and find plenty of posters who don't think they were major components of the team (Harris, Cooke) or stars that would get fans to come see them (Paz, JDV). I'll admit to forgetting about Valderamma, that is the one time the Rapids FO has pulled off a star player that also helped the team. Who you going to trade Mastroeni for and get equal value? Who's going to want to take on his salary at this point? And who do you replace him with? Unless you're changing the coach as well he's still going to want two defensive/holding midfielders out there. We traded LaBrocca away. Who goes into that slot? Unless you're trading Pablo for draft picks and allocation money you're also going to have to cut somebody to bring in that DP. Who gets cut? And outside of Beckham and Blanco have any DP's raised attendance by 2500 a game from their first game? I'd look it up if MLS's website wasn't so fracked, but I doubt it. So we'd need to sign somebody on Beckham or Blanco's level for $1M a year. Got anyone in mind?
With the change in rules they can go out and get three. But will they? No. They'll continue to watch the people through the gates dwindle until the team is moved. Moved to Omaha right?
When LA signed Beckham, quite a few people - including some in here - thought it was a mistake and were critical of it...
Whoa! Did I say this? When did I say this? IMO, the biggest mistake the Rapids made historically had been selling the franchise to Kroenke. All other mistakes pale by comparison. Entrusting the Rapids to a FO headed by suits who don't understand soccer &/or speak soccer was an egregious mistake. The hiring of every coach in Rapids history has been a mistake. Hiring Smith & the method employed for hiring him was a mistake. Hiring Bravo was a mistake. Trying to build a team around & market around Mastroeni, or any player of his quality and media appeal, would have been a mistake. And a lot more!