I don't like the sound of this. A) Just bought my tickets, B) as discussed before in previous threads, this would be a VERY bad thing for MLS. MLS owners are still in the red collectively, the league can not afford the hit to the revenue stream - tickets, TV ad revenue, sponsor revenue, advertising revenue. This would be suicidal. Nobody cared when the WNBA went on strike but that league is supported 100% by the NBA. MLS does not have a grandaddy to take care of them. They need to get it figured out and the season needs to start in late March as planned.... FIFPro says MLS lockout possible NEW YORK -- Major League Soccer could be headed for a work stoppage next month. The sport's international union says management is threatening to lock out MLS players after the league's five-year labor contract expires Jan. 31. Full story - http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=721186&sec=mls&cc=5901
That'd be really cool for all of our MLS based USNT players. Nothing beats watching your world cup team come in fat, lazy, and angry about their contractual situation.
Has there been any use of the word "lockout" that didn't come from someone associated with the players' union? I'm just saying that when one side in a negotiation is bringing up something that the other side could theoretically do, they usually have an ulterior motive. And the fact of the matter is that the only people who have been talking about any sort of work stoppage are the players. The owners would be delighted if the league continued under the current CBA after January 31, since it's very friendly to them, and thus have no reason to lock the players out. Seriously, what reason do the owners have to lock the players out? It's not like the NBA and NHL lockouts, where the players were getting too big of a piece of the pie in the owners' minds. What I think is going on is that the MLSPU is actually thinking about going on strike and want to muddy things in the public's minds and want to put the seed of doubt in their minds that it would not be entirely the MLSPU's fault, when in fact it would be.
http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/september_15_2009_salary_information__by_club.pdf God, how could players like Geoff Cameron, Justin Braun, Wells Thompson, Shea Salinas, Brandon McDonald, etc. all making less than $35 K year.... (Cameron , McDonald and Braun currently with USAMNT) Dude, a junior does it here in Brazil playing in 1st division with 17 years.... And how come a player like Pablo Vitti and Fred, or even the poor Luciano Emílio making $300, $255 and $700 K/year respectively? Absurd! Players should have the right to negotiate their salaries.... By the way, how much is the minimum salary in the US? Now I understand how the USA even with the best athletes in the World has never translated it into the World of Soccer....
C'mon man. These players are only going to make what they are worth in the entertainment industry known as MLS. They don't bring in a lot of money, why should they get paid a lot of money?
1) if they could make more money, they would. Which is why they go to Denmark and why MLS still struggles with quality of play on a consistant basis. We won't see consistant quality until the salary cap is bumped up to 5 Million(4 players count 500K against cap, 4 players at 200K, other 15 or so players average 100K). That, by the way will happen in two years when the "haves" outweigh the "havenots" (Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Toronto, New York, Chicago, LA, RSL, Philly, Houston vs KC, Dallas, Chivas, Colorado, New England, DC, Columbus, San Jose). 2) The lockout isn't going to happen. If it were, there is no way the Hunts would be attempting to sign players (including Schellotto for Columbus) if they were just going to lock them out; too much of a waste of money. I took the signing of the Ghanian as the ultimate sign that there will be no lockout. I expect that some sort of two year extention will be signed so that the players can renegotiate when the league is rolling in cash after the 2011 season.
Bruno, a few questions for you, since you have a good understanding of things: 1. What is the average attendance for the top four or five teams in Brazil for their most important 15 home games (an estimate is fine)? 2. Selling players helps teams generate revenues which they can then use to pay their existing players their salaries. How many players have the top teams in Brazil sold to Europe for $5M+ in the last year. How many did MLS? 3. What are the TV ratings like in Brazil for an important game of the seleccao? Just wondering. 4. How many of the top ten most important teams in Brazil not have a jersey sponsor? How many of those make less than $2M a year from the jersey sponsor? 5. Is there a sport that comes close to soccer in Brazil in generating corporate revenue? In your estimation, in Brazil, what sport would rank about 6th or 7th in popularity?
I saw that Josh Lambo makes $103,000 a year. Bruno - how much does a third-string player on a professional volleyball team in Brazil make? For that matter, how much do you estimate the third string goalkeeper makes on one of the teams with the lowest attendances in Brazil?
I don't think you should use Ga players as a reference. Those players are all paid more than a typical first year player out of college in order to get them into the league and not look abroad and for giving up their college eligibility.
You are right. He is not a typical case. But MLS and soccer in the US is not a typical situation as compared to other soccer leagues in the world, either. So we either draw up comparisons or we don't. In my estimation, Bruno's comparison of MLS' salary structure with Brazil's (as an argument in favor of higher salaries for players here), was apples to oranges.
OK, long rant here. Many college graduates only make $125K when they are 40 years old with almost 20 years work experience, I don't have much sympathy for the players overall. If you are 20 years old and play soccer for a living in MLS and only make $35K, guess what, that is already more than most people in the U.S. make and you still have a lot of earning potential to vastly increase your salary. I understand where the players are coming from but they can't compare themselves to other leagues and other salaries internationally and certainly not other sports leagues in the U.S. Even if they want to do the latter, MLS right now is like NFL in the 40s and 50s or the NBA in the 60s (when some teams played in small college gyms). There is going to need to be a period where it is just pure entertainment, players make some $$ but not much, and the league grows. I am 40, not sure the age of most of you here, but the NFL my dad watched growing up, those guys had off-season jobs they worked for 7 or 8 months a year as they didn't make that much at all playing football. They play in the U.S., the pie is much smaller, the overall revenue is much smaller. If you were good enough to be playing in a different league you'd be there already, or you can finish out your contract then go play there. I do think there should be an increase in the salary cap by roughly doubling it, that doesn't mean every team will hit that mark however. And I think the players deserve some of the things they are asking for certainly, but the reality is right now many owners are still losing $$ and betting on the future of the league. TV ratings on ESPN continue to struggle, soccer fans in the this country will show up 70K strong to watch Chelsea play America but 7K strong to watch FC Dallas play NY Red Bull. It is just the economic reality. What the players make and their rights as players for Real Madrid playing Barcelona at the Nuo Camp has NOTHING to do with MLS. For the record I don't think there will be a lockout or work stoppage or anything like that. Believe it or not, and the players need to understand this, MLS teams could actually go find players of even quality (on average) to play for their current salary or less. How much do you think a player playing on a a 2nd division team in Argentina or Brazil makes? How much do 1st team players in good African leagues make? How much do footballers in Australia, Japan, and Russia make? I don't know with any certainty but I'm betting there are some damn good players in the Russian Premier League that only make $50K US per year. The only comparison is not to the top Euro leagues and the NFL and NBA domestically. And so what if you can go to Norway or Sweden and play? So you go over there and make $250K, after you figure in taxes and cost of living that is like $100K here, and the fact of the matter is those leagues and teams already have a good # of players and others in development, more supply of players will only decrease the wages. MLS quality is improving by leaps and bounds but still your avg. MLS player could simply not play for the top teams in many of the Euro leagues, even the smaller Euro leagues, they would be an avg. player on an avg. 2nd division team. According to all the google search info. I could find the NFL 1990 average salary was $356,382 the 1989 NFL average was $299,616, now of course you need to adjust those #s for inflation but think how big the NFL was in 1990 and look how low that annual salary is compared to today given the explosive growth of the league. Right now the EPL/BPL is the biggest richest league in soccer (I think) and the NFL sends 2 teams over to Wembley to play a game every year, it sells out and is a big time. Much like big Euro superclubs coming over here in the summer to play exhibitions. Now, ask yourself, how much do you think players would make if they started an American football league in England? I'm betting those guys would make $30K per year, while a 17 year old reserve player for Chelsea makes $100K per year. I liken MLS to the CFL - Canadian Football League, in terms of relative popularity, revenue stream, etc. According to everything I can find on the net the annual CFL salary is ~ $100K, if that $100K is in Canadian $$ then that is about $96K US, and I don't think the CFL players expect to be getting paid like their NFL counterparts any time soon. Football is, by far, the most popular north american sport and there are some GREAT players in the CFL that were all-stars in college, and look at the CFL pay structure, as hockey is much more popular there. Hopefully it'll all work out. I think the players union will be in a much stronger position for the next CBA and will get what they want/need, but not this time around. I really like and support MLS all I can and want it to be successful for the long haul, hopefully it won't be jeapordized with this CBA negotiation.
First of all, we will compare economically Brazil VS USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita Both lists Brazil has around $8 - 8,4 K year. Both lists the USA around $47 K year. I believe players in Brazil Volleyball NT that are currently playing in Brazil should make around $60 K dollars year (or more) I read in Europe they were paying until $500,000 euros year. Average in the Superliga Masculina de Vôlei (national league) should be around 10 times the minimum salary in Brazil ( BRL $ 530,00 = USD $ 296,85/month), which would be around USD $ 3864,68 K year. So, ten times it, would be around USD $ 38,6468 K year. And another point is the avarage crowd. Volleyball is played in gymnasiums, and the avarage crows is around 3-5 K people every game. FC Dallas had an average around 13K people last year, hadn't it? I think so. And I think this just because the US has the best athletes in the World in every sport. Could you imagine a player like LeBron James playing soccer? He would be amazing. Imagine now Michael Jordan playing soccer. World class player he would be. And another point. IMO, it's almost unacceptable a proffesional team doesn't having a shirt sponsor. Even in brazilian 2nd division, 3rd division, every team has a sponsor. It could not be that much, but there is always someone paying to stamp his company's name in a soccer team jersey. Always. Even the neighborhood team has a sponsor (probably someone who paid the uniform).
Thank you, I really enjoyed your post! You got it right. I know MLS has a lot to grow, I just read that NT players like Cameron, McDonald, etc were doing that and I said that....but I lovo the structure of MLS. I just think some players are overpaid (like Fred) and some are underpaid.
Anything over about 23k a year is a livable wage in most parts of the country. As a recent college grad who has seen just what the entry level market looks like right now, I have absolutely no sympathy for a 2nd round draft pick who gets paid a living wage to play soccer for a few hours a day.
I have to think about this one a little more, but my first thought on using GDP as a barometer for soccer salary comparisons might not be the best idea. For example, Norway has the second highest GDP in the world. Should we expect average soccer salaries in Norway to be higher than those in England, Italy, and Spain? Of course not, because the business of soccer in England, Italy, and Spain is much more luctrative in those countries than in Norway. So the average salary in pro volleyball in Brazil is about the minimum salary of MLS in the United States. So bascially, US soccer players are paid better than Pro volleyball players are paid in Brazil. Announced? or actually sold? Announced was 12,441. But only counting games at Pizza Hut Park (subtracting the doubleheader with Mexico-Colombia at the Cotton Bowl) it was in the 9k range. And that's announced. Absolutely. No doubt. The US would be a world power in soccer. But do you think professional soccer in the US at the moment can afford to pay the top athletes in the country $10M - $20M a year to compete in soccer? You argue that the players in MLS need to be paid more, the the starting salary is too low, etc. Let me ask you this - within the current economic realities that soccer faces in the United Sates, how long do you honestly think it would take for MLS to go broke if the top 1% of its players were paid like Michael Jordan or LeBron James? Bingo. Exactly. And that right there helps explain the difference between the state of Futebol no Brasil and Soccer in the United States. And that is why, as you said, any 17 year old player in Brazil can make more than the average starting salary for an MLS player in the US. Like JPB so eloquently explained, soccer just ain't there yet in the United States.
That's the key point of your good post. Because of this fact, players will get payed what they deserve to get paid. It's not like the NHL, NBA, NFL and MLB where there is only one game in town. In MLS if a player is getting screwed salary-wise, he'll just leave. And if there is a lockout, many will leave. I suspect many won't come back either and management surely knows this, so there won't be any lockout.