Could CONCACAF improve?

Discussion in 'CONCACAF' started by thebin, Jul 28, 2003.

  1. thebin

    thebin New Member

    Jul 28, 2003
    NYC
    Could CONCACAF improve

    if there were not so many minnows watering down the product? Has anyone ever considered combining all or several of the tiny Caribbean nations into a West Indies team to boost their position within both CONCACAF and the world? Before you laugh, realize that this is exactly what many of the islands do in their often preferred sport of cricket, where the West Indies are a world power- where say Antigua or Barbados could not be playing against a nation like India with its 1 billion people.
     
  2. thebin

    thebin New Member

    Jul 28, 2003
    NYC
    CONCACAF could improve

    if there were not so many minnows watering down the product. Has anyone ever considered combining all or several of the tiny Caribbean nations into a West Indies team to boost their position within both CONCACAF and the world? Before you laugh, realize that this is exactly what many of the islands do in their often preferred sport of cricket, where the West Indies are a world power- where say Antigua or Barbados could not be playing against a nation like India with its 1 billion people.
     
  3. sidspaceman

    sidspaceman Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 20, 2002
    AMÉRICA DE CALI
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I think that FIFA would frown on that idea.
     
  4. Green Tabasco

    Green Tabasco New Member

    May 3, 2003
    Re: Could CONCACAF improve

    That's a very good point.

    Concacaf:
    Canada
    USA
    Mexico
    Hoduras
    Belize
    El Salvador
    Nicaragua
    Costa Rica
    Panama

    Caribean:
    Cuba
    Haiti
    Dominican Republic
    Puerto Rico
    Bahamas
    Barbados
    Trindad and Tobago
    US Virgin Islands
    British Virgin Islands
    Bermuda
    All the rest

    I think it would be a very succesful. Concacaf gets 2 1/2 entries. Caribean gets 1 1/2. The halves have a playoff. What do you think?
     
  5. Beakmon FC

    Beakmon FC Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Jan 10, 2002
    The OC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Could CONCACAF improve

    One spot TOPS to the Caribbean.
     
  6. Green Tabasco

    Green Tabasco New Member

    May 3, 2003
    Re: Re: Re: Could CONCACAF improve

    I agree. But it would be a little unfair, that's why I gave them a half.
     
  7. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    ... mod's note ...

    Confederation specific topic are usually dealt with on the confederations boards. I should probably move this to CONCACAF. PM with questions.
     
  8. Shatta

    Shatta New Member

    Mar 3, 2001
    Inglewood California
    Minnows uh? Isn't that how they referred to the USA before you guys got a chance to grow on the world stage?

    Now everyone is mr elitist all of a sudden my my my.

    Wonder where the region would be if the Europeans had gotten their way with FIFA?

    Since Europe says the same of Africa I have an idea

    why don't we divide the world cup into 2 cups
    One for the Elite teams in this region, south America and Europe and the other for Africa, Asia and the Caribbean/

    How does that sound? That way us MINNOWS won't be able to water down your guys tournament.

    I wonder where football would be in this country if FIFA hadn't given this MINNOW a chance to hold the competition over the protest from Europe and other TRADITIONAL POWERS(oops I forgot the USA is in that group too)

    respect
     
  9. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Uh, "minnows" depends on the context. Within CONCACAF, at the present time, Mexico, the USA, and Costa Rica are the major powers, and lesser powers include Honduras, Guatemala, Canada, Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago, and El Salvador. Panama, Cuba, and Haiti have the potential to join the "lesser powers" of CONCACAF within the next few years. But objectively speaking, does anyone seriously think St. Lucia or Bahamas will ever even be strong enough to beat Jamaica's U-23 team?

    On the other hand, if all the English-speaking Caribbean nations except Jamaica and T&T were to field a combined West Indies team, I think they'd have at least a fighting chance to get into the Hexagonal (they'd likely be the third-best Caribbean team after Jamaica and T&T, ahead of Cuba).
     
  10. Shatta

    Shatta New Member

    Mar 3, 2001
    Inglewood California
    Elninho I see your point and I agree that some of the smaller caribbean nations may never be as competitive as say a Jamaica or Trinidad due to population size and football infrastructure.

    However let us give everyone a chance to at least maximise their potential before we start closing the doors. Right now Jamaica and the rest of the caribbean are just starting out(we are babies in terms of football tradition) and we haven't seen the best of the caribbean as yet.

    why the rush to exclude these budding football countries. I do agree that the low end population size to be competitive in football seems to be around 2 million plus(see Holland and Uruaguy)

    Haiti
    Cuba
    Jamaica
    Trinidad?
    All have the potential to compete in the region
    (BTW what is the population of Costa Rica again?)

    respect
     
  11. yellowbismark

    yellowbismark Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Club Tijuana
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One would have to think Surinam has potential to be a good CONCACAF side. I mean, they have helped out the Dutch a whole lot.
     
  12. thebin

    thebin New Member

    Jul 28, 2003
    NYC
    Shatta use your brain for a second

    You need to settle down Shatta and get your panties out of a bunch. The USA was never a minnow, it was a sleeping big fish, one that is still partially asleep but showing signs of waking up. You are mighty defensive. This is not about closing any doors, but if you paid attention, opening doors for countries that have populations of well under a million in many cases. It is about giving them the very chance that you are spazzing out about me trying to take away. There is zero correlation between pre 1994 USA and say Antigua, whose population is less than a tenth of the US's smallest of 50 states. Do you think a country with a population of 50-300,000 is about to break out onto the world stage once FIFA grants them a World Cup? Beyond those countries, bigger ones like Jamaica and T&T might relish the opportunity to more fairly compete with giants like US and Mexico. Maybe not, but it is only a suggestion- and one that is far from fanciful since IT IS ALREADY DONE IN THEIR BELOVED CRICKET. Your analogy is absurd. The US was/is a world sports power, a wealthy nation with facilities at the ready, and a grass roots soccer base of tens of millions of youths before the USA Cup. Can you put your thinking cap on for a second and see how that makes it different from say Barbados? You seeing any differences here Einstein?
     
  13. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Re: Re: Could CONCACAF improve


    you have got to be insane - since when did these caribbean nations merit even half a spot?
     
  14. DaMunk

    DaMunk Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Philadelphia/STX
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    US Virgin Islands
    Re: Shatta use your brain for a second

    Maybe he's a little riled up due to your arrogant and condescending comments suggesting Caribbean people are a monolithic people.

    Just because
    does not mean that it would work or even benefit soccer. The best part of the World Cup is that every single member nation has the opportunity to win. There is a matter of pride in supporting YOUR country that YOU are displaying, why not let Shatta express his national pride?

    BTW, the US couldn't buy an international win 25 years ago. Amazing what a nation can do with a little bit of time to develop.
     
  15. thebin

    thebin New Member

    Jul 28, 2003
    NYC
    I didn't say they were a monolithic people- you did shithead. Don't put racist words in my mouth punk. The whole point about the WI Cricket team is these people are already in the habit of supporting the WI in international competition just as you support your country now. And neither you nor he have any friggen right to start calling me arrogant or condescending just because you disagree with me- that makes you the arrogant and condescending one. It was a suggestion for countries that are way to friggen small in population to be analogous to the pre-WC US. Get your head out of your ass and get off your high horse while you are at it.
     
  16. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've never understood why Suriname, Guyana and French Guiana aren't CONMEBOL teams, they're clearly in South America.
     
  17. yellowbismark

    yellowbismark Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Club Tijuana
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know why it's like that, maybe it's because CONMEBOL didn't want those teams weighing down the rest of the confederation.

    Then there is Israel and Kazakhstan who are in UEFA too...
     
  18. yellowbismark

    yellowbismark Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Club Tijuana
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyways back to the subject,

    I think CONCACAF HAS improved a lot even in the last few years. The US of course, and then places like Jamaica have also risen (though I don't know if they have hit the top of the curve or have more potential). And then Honduras and Guatemala are getting good as well. I think Canada may be a sleeping (quasi) giant. They produce loads of good players, they need their own league, and few pioneers like the US had. They could be very competitive though if they ever get a league together.

    I think there is some potential. There seems to be a core of about 8 teams (US, MEX, CR, HON, JAM, TT, CAN, and GUA). If another 3-4 teams can step up, then things could get real interesting. Candidates would be El Salvador, Haiti, Cuba, Barbados. I think the Gold Cup has the potential to have some neat matches, just get rid of the 4 groups of 3 thing.
     
  19. DaMunk

    DaMunk Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Philadelphia/STX
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    US Virgin Islands
    Two words:

    ANGER

    MANAGEMENT
     
  20. Jimjamesak

    Jimjamesak New Member

    May 3, 2003
    Anchorage Alaska
    Hmmmmmmm, Israel playing with Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon... Not a very good idea, keep Israel in UEFA and not have any trouble. And for Kazakhstan they were a former Soviet Republic... That's all I got.
     
  21. thebin

    thebin New Member

    Jul 28, 2003
    NYC
    T&T's biggest limitation is clearly its population at 1.1 million which is arguably below the threshold for being able to produce a WC-finals run. Barbados has a population that is 1/3 that of T&T. There are about a dozen Caribbean nations that have populations of under 500,000. Those nations will NEVER be able to make World Cup runs as is. It is they who might do well to band together and thus replace several weak sister teams in the region with one team that would probably have a fighting chance. I refuse to believe that the people of these island nations would rather get their lunch handed to them on the field than form a cricket like WI team that had a chance of doing something.
     
  22. Touches

    Touches New Member

    Feb 14, 2001
    good question but the minnows get weeded out

    thebin

    good question , but really the minnows as you call the smaller nations get weeded out early due to seeding. The traditionally bigger teams get placed into the semi-final WCQ groups, whereas smaller teams have to play home and away ties before they reach the semi-final stage.

    Result the cream risies to the top.

    First off the West Indies refers to the group of English speaking islands.

    West Indian countries all have a sense of national pride and they all try to go it alone...Why shouldnt they. Unification of the caribbean has been attempted at many levels, business, sport etc.but it has never been successful..what is termed as caricom and a West Indian Federation was attempted many years ago.Jamaica decided they didnt want to join so 10-1....equals 0.

    Cricket which you pointed out has its share of problems as the players on teams are selected and some islands feel discriminated against.
    Games are played in various islands and there are too many issues involved.

    For Football..how could it be practical to fly in players from Europe and the Cbbean to get in a match far less a training session. How would fringe players be assessed. Would only professional pros make the squad, and then you have the question of bigger islands with more history such as TT and JA and their pros having preference over smaller island nations, such as Bdos and St.Kitts who have pros as well.coaching and scouting will also be a problem. Dont forget the non-english speaking nations such as haiti who have already qualified for the World Cup, how would they be affected...when they are not part of the West Indies

    Its just the opening of a big can of worms..let each nation participate and try their best.
    Barbados beat costa rica at home and while the US made it trough in the last qualifiers Barbados did manage to put up some resistance.

    You have to realise football and sport in general does not have the Funding that the US has
    that is the ONLY reason these teams are competitive, inject some money into their programmes and they will be able to compete, Physically they are bigger than their central American counterparts and believe me the desire to succeed is certainly there.
     
  23. thebin

    thebin New Member

    Jul 28, 2003
    NYC
    Good points Touches. I never pretended it was a no-brainer, it was just an idea to spark conversation. I guess I just thought that Concacaf would appear stonger, if not be stonger, if you turned several of its tiny nations into one medium sized power. Although your point is well taken that this would be tough to oull off in practice.
     
  24. They are at CONCACAF bacause the travel is shorter and cheaper to Caribbean nations than, lets say, Buenos Aires.
     
  25. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Culturally, those nations are closer to the Caribbean than South America.
     

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