[NHFootyFan]

So I went back and looked and here's the lineup from the Rev's 2002 MLS Cup final

N.E. REVOLUTION--Adin Brown, Carlos Llamosa (Rusty Pierce 92+), Joe Franchino, Daouda Kante, Jay Heaps, Leo Cullen, Daniel Hernandez, Steve Ralston, Brian Kamler (Winston Griffiths 90), Taylor Twellman, Wolde Harris (Alex Pineda Chacon 76)

How does our current line up match up to this one?

A healthy Twellman, a younger and healthier Ralston, and ... meh... Brown is not much of a step down from Reis, and 2002 Jay Heaps is better than 2009 Jay Heaps...

The rest? Would you take Wolde Harris over Dube?

We got spoiled, we did. From 2003 to 2007 -- basically building up to and ebbing away from the 2005 squad -- the Revs were the most consistently quality side in MLS, with the possible exception of San Jose/Houston. No, we didn't win the damn Cup. But we progressed further in the playoffs, and consistently racked up more points, than any other club over that span.

Be interested to hear what others who had a closer view of the Revs at the time (I admit I didn't) think

[rkupp]

Originally Posted by NHFootyFan

... and 2002 Jay Heaps is better than 2009 Jay Heaps...

No way - Heaps is much better now than he was then. He hasn't showed any signs of slowing, and despite still making some of the same mistakes, he has gotten smarter, more consistent and *calmer*.

But since Heaps was on the left, it is really Heaps'02 vs. Alston and Franchino vs Heaps'09. I like the '09 lineup better. In fact, I like the whole '09 back line a lot better.

Originally Posted by NHFootyFan

The rest? Would you take Wolde Harris over Dube?

Yes. I don't remember how Wolde did that year (he had some stinkers), but he was more talented than Dube.

Cullen vs. Larentowicz - JL by a longshot. And DH vs. Joseph - no contest. Brown vs. Reis - a wash.

Wings and forwards are where that '02 team was better.

[Jayfil]

Originally Posted by NHFootyFan

(Winston Griffiths 90)

*sigh*

[patfan1]

Originally Posted by Jayfil

*sigh*

I had the same reaction.

[Revs in 2010]

Originally Posted by rkupp

No way - Heaps is much better now than he was then. He hasn't showed any signs of slowing, and despite still making some of the same mistakes, he has gotten smarter, more consistent and *calmer*.

But since Heaps was on the left, it is really Heaps'02 vs. Alston and Franchino vs Heaps'09. I like the '09 lineup better. In fact, I like the whole '09 back line a lot better.

Yes. I don't remember how Wolde did that year (he had some stinkers), but he was more talented than Dube.

Cullen vs. Larentowicz - JL by a longshot. And DH vs. Joseph - no contest. Brown vs. Reis - a wash.

Wings and forwards are where that '02 team was better.

Well said. The Red and Dread pairing so much better than Cullen and Hernandez that it's pretty much a wash with the equally large TNT/Wolde differential with EJ and Dube. Our current defense probably isn't better talent-wise, but the current group is both more athletic and has developed organization that is as good as what "LL cool Carlos" brought to the 02 team. Ralston and Kamler were significantly better than Mansally and Nyassi at that point in their careers (probably the high water mark for them both), so the 02 team was probably a bit better. This year's bench might be marginally better.

Now, if you want to compare to '05, I'm not sure there's a single position winner on the current squad.

[Revs in 2010]

Originally Posted by patfan1

I had the same reaction.

I can never hear the name Winston Griffiths without the picture running through my head (not just the crossbar, but the bottom of the bar) and a chill up my spine.

[NER_MCFC]

That 2002 team was truly magical for a couple months, but let's not pretend that they were actually very good. They came together at almost the last possible moment and took advantage of a truly pathetic division.

With the exception of Griffiths was there anyone on that team who could keep up with the person playing the same role now? Heaps was the fastest of that back line; I'm pretty sure he's the slowest on this one.

For me, this year's team is clearly better for two reasons. One, Joseph and Lawrentowicz are a huge upgrade from Cullen and Hernandez. Two, as a group the 2002 squad wasn't very skillful. They are largely responsible for the bunker ball criticism that has followed the Revs ever since, and they didn't really have a choice.

[peabrainedidiot]

Originally Posted by NHFootyFan

So I went back and looked and here's the lineup from the Rev's 2002 MLS Cup final

N.E. REVOLUTION--Adin Brown, Carlos Llamosa (Rusty Pierce 92+), Joe Franchino, Daouda Kante, Jay Heaps, Leo Cullen, Daniel Hernandez, Steve Ralston, Brian Kamler (Winston Griffiths 90), Taylor Twellman, Wolde Harris (Alex Pineda Chacon 76)

How does our current line up match up to this one?

A healthy Twellman, a younger and healthier Ralston, and ... meh... Brown is not much of a step down from Reis, and 2002 Jay Heaps is better than 2009 Jay Heaps...

The rest? Would you take Wolde Harris over Dube?

We got spoiled, we did. From 2003 to 2007 -- basically building up to and ebbing away from the 2005 squad -- the Revs were the most consistently quality side in MLS, with the possible exception of San Jose/Houston. No, we didn't win the damn Cup. But we progressed further in the playoffs, and consistently racked up more points, than any other club over that span.

Be interested to hear what others who had a closer view of the Revs at the time (I admit I didn't) think

with no TnT and Rally right now?
probably the 02 line up and I'd take wolde over dube any day of the week.
The only massive improvements to that line up are SJ and JL. Kamler was a huge part of that team though. He was fantastic for us for a few years. and man did I hate llamosa when he played here (wait, I mean sat on the bench here)

[frankieg73]

Those last couple of months (including the playoffs) in 2002 were magical. A mediocre MLS club that put it together at the last moment, back-doored themselves into 1st place in the East, and did just enough to get to the final, held in Foxborough. (I still miss the Old Foxborough Stadium.) That Ruiz goal hurt, but it was pretty.

While the 02 and 09 Revs' are comparable, the biggest difference may be that the 2002 team spent those last 2-3 months "on the same page." They fought for each other, for every dead ball, and played as a team. Until last Sunday there were plenty of moments where the 2009 Revs were 11 different players with 11 different ideas. Reis and Osei don't communicate, Jankauskas knows where a quality strike partner should be but Dube is elsewhere, Shalrie sends a pass down the flank but Mansally has stopped his run.

[frankieg73]

Originally Posted by rkupp

No way - Heaps is much better now than he was then. He hasn't showed any signs of slowing, and despite still making some of the same mistakes, he has gotten smarter, more consistent and *calmer*.

If you watched Jay Heaps in the Gold Cup, or last Saturday, is the 2009 Jay Heaps really better than the 2002 Jay Heaps? Maybe not worse, but certainly not better. His biggest 2009 contribution has been his experience.