[CDM76]

Lots of debate among our local referee pool regarding "doing the least to impact the game" which imo translates "let the players kick the crud out of each other".

A friend of mine watches a lot of UCSB college soccer and claims he can predict the style of the match by watching how the referee manages the first 10 minutes. According to him, the same UCSB players will vary from practically brawling to a very physically controlled style depending on the standard established by the referee.

I talk a lot ("arms down #7", "watch the feet #12") and call a pretty tight game. Generally, I'm calling fewer than 10 fouls a match but the kids lay off the holding, pushing, tripping and kicking pretty quickly because I don't give them much latitude.

Other referees in my area call a similar number of fouls but have a definition of trifling fouls that if I were on the field as a player would send me head-hunting (I'm a high school teacher and the U16 and U19 players I've spoken with share that perspective).

What do posters on this board see as the key issues of flow vs control?

How do you use voice, whistle and cards to maintain control without compromising flow?

Are referees who have a high tolerance of contact (only fouls that take an opponent to ground are whistled) doing American soccer a service or a disservice?

Does the lack of experience as players change how referees perceive fouls?

[LiquidYogi]

There's a Triangle somewhere with all the answers on it.

[Elizondo]

42.

[sm. town ref]

I've been waiting for a thread such as this for awhile now. And it's not just doing "American" soccer a diservice... but the game in general.

A quick back ground.... I'm a second year ref, but we've had some injuries to our "senior" ref's this year and I've been put in the position of one. I may have had a few games that were "over my head", but I got through them without too many problems.

I've been struggling with some of the same questions that you pose. Some players/coaches think I call it too tight at the HS level... I may or may not.

Like the OP, I will call few fouls.... most in the first 10-15 minutes. I'll mostly use my voice... "arms/feet down, play the ball". When two players are running side by side... elbows and/or hands battling for position, I'll let that go until one player "pushes off". I tend to call this more frequently than other refs, but I've found in my games, it can turn from a "push off" to an elbow in a short span of time.

Most players and teams adjust to what I call very quickly, so I must be doing something right. I'm still trying to find the space in the middle of "letting them play" and not killing each other.

My question(s) to those of you who have been around awhile:
Other than just plain experience, is there anything else I can be doing?

Should I ask for a chance to sit and watch a "competitive" game with a mentor/assessor to discuss what they see vs what I see??

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by sm. town ref

I've been waiting for a thread such as this for awhile now. And it's not just doing "American" soccer a diservice... but the game in general.

A quick back ground.... I'm a second year ref, but we've had some injuries to our "senior" ref's this year and I've been put in the position of one. I may have had a few games that were "over my head", but I got through them without too many problems.

I've been struggling with some of the same questions that you pose. Some players/coaches think I call it too tight at the HS level... I may or may not.

Like the OP, I will call few fouls.... most in the first 10-15 minutes. I'll mostly use my voice... "arms/feet down, play the ball". When two players are running side by side... elbows and/or hands battling for position, I'll let that go until one player "pushes off". I tend to call this more frequently than other refs, but I've found in my games, it can turn from a "push off" to an elbow in a short span of time.

Most players and teams adjust to what I call very quickly, so I must be doing something right. I'm still trying to find the space in the middle of "letting them play" and not killing each other.

My question(s) to those of you who have been around awhile:
Other than just plain experience, is there anything else I can be doing?

Should I ask for a chance to sit and watch a "competitive" game with a mentor/assessor to discuss what they see vs what I see??

Couple of thoughts:

1. I'm am not a fan of "hands/arms down." Highly skilled players play with their hands and arms, and this can be done without committing a foul.

2. Absolutely, yes, spend time watching games with senior referees and assessors. Associations should hold "games of the week" that are expected to generate talking points, and referees not working at the time should come out and watch & discuss. Veteran assessors and senior referees should lead the discussions. Best done in small groups divided up by experience level. The match should be taped and made available post match.

3. What you are experiencing sounds like a typical plateau in the development of a referee. You've figured out how to recognize fouls in a consistent manner, you're not afraid to announce those decisions, and so your games are "tight" and fairly consistent. You aren't going to have a lot of problems with this approach. However, the next step is to recognize when player and spectator enjoyment is increased by raising the foul bar, and doing so without your game falling apart. This is a difficult stage in referee development. It takes time (longer for non-players), lots of challenging matches, lots of feedback, and lots of thought.

[refontherun]

Originally Posted by Elizondo

Couple of thoughts:

1. I'm am not a fan of "hands/arms down." Highly skilled players play with their hands and arms, and this can be done without committing a foul.

2. Absolutely, yes, spend time watching games with senior referees and assessors. Associations should hold "games of the week" that are expected to generate talking points, and referees not working at the time should come out and watch & discuss. Veteran assessors and senior referees should lead the discussions. Best done in small groups divided up by experience level. The match should be taped and made available post match.

3. What you are experiencing sounds like a typical plateau in the development of a referee. You've figured out how to recognize fouls in a consistent manner, you're not afraid to announce those decisions, and so your games are "tight" and fairly consistent. You aren't going to have a lot of problems with this approach. However, the next step is to recognize when player and spectator enjoyment is increased by raising the foul bar, and doing so without your game falling apart. This is a difficult stage in referee development. It takes time (longer for non-players), lots of challenging matches, lots of feedback, and lots of thought.

I have been reffing for a few years. I've just started doing some competetive men's matches. I have to continuously remind myself to take my eyes of the ball, and look at the entire player. Looking for cleats up challenges, but seeing the nudging and tugging that goes on up above. Not only that, it is trying to "feel" the game and what the players want from you when judging those nudges and tugs. After all, it is their game, and I think that's where experience as a player has a great value.

[LiquidYogi]

Originally Posted by Elizondo

42.

I'm only 26 I swear!

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by LiquidYogi

I'm only 26 I swear!

That's a good age to delve into the answer to life, the universe and everything.

[nonya]

advantage...advantage...advantage....




*blow whistle*




(stop clock if needed)




card

[o5iiawah]

Had a good leaning game this weekend of a team of South Americans with a notoriously vocal enforcer captain who subs himself in when he's ready to kick lumps out of people. They played a team of jamaicans in the local O30 mens league.

Did the game with a state/aspiring national as my AR2 and he brought up some good points.

1. I knew the game was going to be hell to call and let this get to me from the start
2. my foul recognition was spot on (the sign of an 8 who is ready for 7) but anticipation and keeping eyes in the back of my head still isn't where it should be.
3. The players were very happy to play a physical game but neither team wanted to receive physical play. Every aerial ball usually involved players with their arms on each other but very little actual pushing, more for bracing one's jump which for guys who pay $200 a season and are grown individuals, i like to let go. Still, those incidents were met with screams and hollers for fouls which then resulted in retaliations.

The first 10 minutes really do tell you a lot about the game. If there is a team who is not skilled in the mix, they will usually result to hijinks to even things out. For them, you'll have to take your eyes off the ball a bit to watch the whole field of play. Generally I've found very skilled teams use soccer - not fouls to try and win the game.

Want 100 opinions on something? Ask 100 referees - Seriously..guys will tell you alot of different things. Go with what works for you and where you want to be with your refereeing career. If you're content to do sunday pub league games then you may need to develop a style different than if you wanted to track into more serious matches and a higher grade.
$.02