TOA, the USL and MLS........the view from the Grassy Knoll.

the shelts · 13 Oct 2009, 07:40 PM

Just a hypothesis...........................

Lets say during the Seattle, Portland, Montreal and/or Vancouver MLS expansion talks a question from one of the teams says something along the lines of "why don't you work closer with the USL?"

Lets say during the Seattle, Portland, Montreal and/or Vancouver chit chats down in Tampa with Marcos one of the teams says something along the lines of "why don't we work closer with MLS?"

Suppose that the TOA is a group of owners who want to integrate closer into a single pyramid with MLS. It might make sense they try to throw there weight around. What doesn't make sense is Portland and Vancouver (possibly Montreal) luring 5 other teams and expansion owners into a 'league' that doesn't exist when they will be joining MLS in 2011 (possibly 2012 Montreal).

Portland and Vancouver (possibly Montreal) see a way to either keep or build a great youth system (this was a stumbling block with Vancouvers expansion).

MLS loves these developmental players and their 'peanuts-for-pay' contracts. MLS hates USL and the ability to pay more for the developmental guys. MLS sees a way to finally get one structured pyramid and USL finds a way to integrate into a established league.

So the peace talks between the USL and TOA would then include Sunil (who if he's doing his job would naturally be there) and Garber also.

or the whole thing is atypical of US soccer. A fiasco-wrapped-in-a-disaster-encircled-by-a-$***fight with no winners only losers and everyone pointing the finger of blame at the other.

VioletCrown · 14 Oct 2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the shelts

Suppose that the TOA is a group of owners who want to integrate closer into a single pyramid with MLS. It might make sense they try to throw there weight around. What doesn't make sense is Portland and Vancouver (possibly Montreal) luring 5 other teams and expansion owners into a 'league' that doesn't exist when they will be joining MLS in 2011 (possibly 2012 Montreal).

Your wild-ass theories might be contemplated with some interest if you didn't have glaring errors like including Portland in the TOA side of things.

It's also pretty tiresome for you to start a new thread when there's already an obvious place to put your ideas.

Paul Schmidt · 15 Oct 2009, 01:41 PM

Merritt Paulson has said that he is sympathetic with the goals of the TOA, but changing leagues isn't an option. I believe changing isn't easily considered because the contract with the city states "United Soccer Leagues" instead of just any old soccer league or outfit. I'd think the contract could be changed, but with so many irons in the fire right now, that's something for which Paulson would prefer not to spend valuable time.

drSoFlaFan · 15 Oct 2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Schmidt

Merritt Paulson has said that he is sympathetic with the goals of the TOA, but changing leagues isn't an option. I believe changing isn't easily considered because the contract with the city states "United Soccer Leagues" instead of just any old soccer league or outfit. I'd think the contract could be changed, but with so many irons in the fire right now, that's something for which Paulson would prefer not to spend valuable time.

I assume the contract with the city you speak of is for the use of PGE Park? If so let's say a TOA breakaway happens. Does Portland self relegate to USL-2 next season? Or not play? I doubt with the kind of fan support the Timbers have they'll not field a team at all. The only teams that aren't in the TOA camp, or sympathetic to the cause and likely to join the new league as well(FCNY and PR), are Charleston, Rochester, Cleveland, Austin and Portland. Barring an insane expansion there may not be enough teams to field a USL-1 next year. What do the Timbers do then? Granted, taking the year off isn't the worst thing in the world, since MLS is coming, but still, when you're pulling 10K fans per game shutting things down seems silly.

MLSinCleveland · 15 Oct 2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drSoFlaFan

I assume the contract with the city you speak of is for the use of PGE Park? If so let's say a TOA breakaway happens. Does Portland self relegate to USL-2 next season? Or not play? I doubt with the kind of fan support the Timbers have they'll not field a team at all. The only teams that aren't in the TOA camp, or sympathetic to the cause and likely to join the new league as well(FCNY and PR), are Charleston, Rochester, Cleveland, Austin and Portland. Barring an insane expansion there may not be enough teams to field a USL-1 next year. What do the Timbers do then? Granted, taking the year off isn't the worst thing in the world, since MLS is coming, but still, when you're pulling 10K fans per game shutting things down seems silly.

USL-1 could make it through 2010 with these 5 by adding NuRock's Birmingham team, the Ottawa Fury, and Crystal Palace Baltimore (who wants to go USL-1) and getting a couple of teams (likely GR and Indy) added to USL-2 quickly to get it back up to 8 (I don't see the Hogges answering the bell in '10). The prob;em would be the need for an 8th team in 2011 to replace the Timbers. Hopefully Hamilton would be ready by then and not going to the TOA league.

btw, I know that the Rhinos and Battery are persona non grata in the eyes of the TOA and would have no chance to but to play USL-Pro (i.e. USL-2) soccer if USL-1 can't keep going, but what about Cleveland and Austin? Which of the following do you think would happen in each of their cases if USL-1 goes bust?

a. team goes to TOA league
b. team goes to USL-Pro of own volition
c. team goes to USL-Pro because TOA won't take them
d. team folds

Remember, Cleveland is under new, local, ownership, so the ties to the USL may not be as strong as they were under AIS/CSF ownership.

btw, this question is directed at anybody with an opinion on the matter, not just the quoted poster.

the shelts · 15 Oct 2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VioletCrown

Your wild-ass theories might be contemplated with some interest if you didn't have glaring errors like including Portland in the TOA side of things.

It's also pretty tiresome for you to start a new thread when there's already an obvious place to put your ideas.

OK sorry Violet. Don't want you having to read more than one post. My bad. Next time you see my wild ass theory just jump to the next thread, thats the best and only advice I have for you.

I could point to your continual insistance that NYC2 and Atlanta were certain to be admitted to MLS in the last round of expansion. You would harp on how you knew the guy from Stoke who ran the USL 1 team and had inside info............none of which came to fruition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLSinCleveland

btw, I know that the Rhinos and Battery are persona non grata in the eyes of the TOA and would have no chance to but to play USL-Pro (i.e. USL-2) soccer if USL-1 can't keep going, but what about Cleveland and Austin? Which of the following do you think would happen in each of their cases if USL-1 goes bust?

I might agree with you that the Rhinos and Battery are in the other camp but this is one situation where I think each side needs the other. A breakaway league and USL-1 each trying to operate independant of the other is a nuclear option for both sides IMO. I think they both need the other and realize it.

City Dave · 16 Oct 2009, 08:36 AM

What if there were no hypothetical situations?

VioletCrown · 16 Oct 2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the shelts

OK sorry Violet. Don't want you having to read more than one post. My bad. Next time you see my wild ass theory just jump to the next thread, thats the best and only advice I have for you.

I could point to your continual insistance that NYC2 and Atlanta were certain to be admitted to MLS in the last round of expansion. You would harp on how you knew the guy from Stoke who ran the USL 1 team and had inside info............none of which came to fruition.

I've mentioned many times that my memory is crap.

So I'd love to have you point to where I continually insist "that NYC2 and Atlanta were certain to be admitted to MLS in the last round of expansion".

With my tendency to speak conditionally, I have a very hard time believing that I've done that. Especially continually.

I hope you're not confusing me with Alejo.