[imasyko]

I've seen this happen twice now - once when I was centering just this past weekend and once last year when I was AR.

Goalie goes down to field the ball and attacker slides in feet first hard. CR blows whistle and runs in, both players get to their feet, goalie with the ball under his arm. Goalie is 'excitable' type who is obviously upset, and takes a run at the attacker, thumping him in the chest with his shoulder and pushing him - but only knocking the attacker back a step or so in the process.

The CR (I'm describing the incident on which I was AR), gives a talking to to both players and play continues. No cards - when I felt certain the attacker deserved a yellow and the GK could have seen red for striking him after the whistle.

When I asked the CR (an experienced college ref in our area) why no cards, he explained that had he given the attacker a YC, he would have had to give the GK red, which would have meant giving the attacking team a PK, since the keeper had committed a cardable foul while in possession in the PA. Is this correct - even if the GK foul occurred when the ball was 'dead'?

Then a similar situation happened to me in a game this weekend and got me thinking about it again. So I thought I'd throw it out to the to the cognescenti so I could learn something.

[PVancouver]

No.

[swoot]

If a YC was given to the attacker for a foul on the keeper, that would be the restart. The keeper's actions happened during a dead ball situation and would not change the resart. So a red card to the keeper would still leave the restart as a direct kick for the defending team.

[NHRef]

You left out some required information: Did the play stop when the attacker slid into the keeper? If the CR decided that that was a foul, then the "strike" by the keeper was during a dead ball, so there would be no PK. You can NEVER change the restart for something that happens when the ball is out of play, the restart is fixed once you stop play.

Few things CAN happen here and it depends on the player management ability of the ref combined with what happened, how it happened and how the game has been up to that point.

Sounds like a foul needed to be called for the slide into the keeper. Now preventing the keeper retaliating requires the CR to be there. Once the keeper does retaliate you have to decide what to do about it, see above about player management. Could be anything from:
- chew them both out
- caution the attacker, chew out the keeper
- chew out the attacker, caution the keeper (tough sell here)
- caution them both
- caution attacker and send off the keeper
- send off both

Comes down to the skill of the CR and exactly how bad the slide and shoulder push by the keeper were.

[glutenfreebaker]

I can only assume that he was whistling play to stop because of the attacker committing a reckless foul agaist the GK, ergo, his thought to caution him. If that's the case, then there can't be a PK for anything the GK does at this point, since the restart has to be a DFK coming out. It doesn't me they both couldn't be cautioned.

[imasyko]

Thanks for the quick replies - it did not seem correct to me that the attacking would be awarded a PK for a dead ball foul. And yes, the CR had blown the whistle to stop play before the GK pushed the attacker.

[IASocFan]

Originally Posted by imasyko

...
Goalie goes down to field the ball and attacker slides in feet first hard. CR blows whistle and runs in, both players get to their feet, goalie with the ball under his arm. Goalie is 'excitable' type who is obviously upset, and takes a run at the attacker, thumping him in the chest with his shoulder and pushing him - but only knocking the attacker back a step or so in the process.

The CR (I'm describing the incident on which I was AR), gives a talking to to both players and play continues. No cards - when I felt certain the attacker deserved a yellow and the GK could have seen red for striking him after the whistle.

When I asked the CR (an experienced college ref in our area) why no cards, he explained that had he given the attacker a YC, he would have had to give the GK red, which would have meant giving the attacking team a PK, since the keeper had committed a cardable foul while in possession in the PA. Is this correct - even if the GK foul occurred when the ball was 'dead'?

Then a similar situation happened to me in a game this weekend and got me thinking about it again. So I thought I'd throw it out to the to the cognescenti so I could learn something.

Why did the CR blow the whistle? Whatever the reason, the restart should be established! Unless it was for an unlikely foul by the keeper, there is NO PK!

What cards, if any, needs to be based on what the two offenses committed. I can see a talking to, YELLOW to both, or RED to both! Or an unequal carding! The CR needs to do what's RIGHT for THIS game and SELL his decision to the players. The better job he does of this, the easier the game will be for all concerned.


EDIT: I started this before any other replies, but got called into a meeting before I finished. Looks like others had a very similar response.

[blech]

Originally Posted by imasyko

Thanks for the quick replies - it did not seem correct to me that the attacking would be awarded a PK for a dead ball foul. And yes, the CR had blown the whistle to stop play before the GK pushed the attacker.

As reflected by the prior responses, it makes it easy if he's actually blown the whistle prior to the GK's push. Play is stopped and you don't change the restart. But just to be clear, even if the CR had not blown the whistle yet when the goalie retaliated, these are not simultaneous actions (one follows the other) and the foul by the attacker (assuming that's the call) should always act to prevent the award of a pk for a subsequent response by the goalie.