[sumthingspecial]

i randomly started thinking about this just now. before i kept myself from forming an opinion, as i never sat down and factored in all the .... factors. well i still haven't and it won't change anything regardless what i think. still, its 4am and i'm pissed

zenit's match is coming up. they're 10 points behind kazan. why the ******** is it 6+5? 5+6 ain't good enough? the problem with our league is THE LEAGUE. It sucks. What do you need to improve it? Perhaps hope Zenit get into a CL spot, buy a $25m striker by then, and do some damage..

With all due respect to Kazan, they are built to win the league, not compete in europe. while pretty boy teams like zenit or spartak don't have the grit to be #1 after 30games. although i guess you never know..

What the ******** was my point?

oh yes, league..improving.. first by bringing in top class players to get into the CL 1/8 finals or whatever and then having more top class players come in as a result of that fame

the russian national team already has a wealth of average players to choose from. the kind that belong on wales, or andorra. the problem is quality not quantity. look at the strikers situation. are we going to just forget about them and put saenko up there on the wing with kerzha?

so what do they do, they put a cap. all teams want the best players, but can't buy brazilians. there's a limit = the prices for the best russian players goes through the roof. the big teams end up with the best ones, while everyone else is left with scraps.

our "stars" are left playing against samara, and this is supposed to prepare them for the world cup? there is interest from abroad, from teams like everton in very competitive leagues, for some of our players, but they're too ********ing expensive! because how is cska suppose to cause damage in europe or even in the league without ignashevich? but no, the sad part isn't cska's lack of depth. it's that because he plays for them, the majority of the time hes facing mediocre teams with strikers like jan koller, (or worse). thats not challenging him enough.

as for the strikers, lets just say facing those team's cbs are not doing wagner love's brazilian career any favors

isn't the logical path to improving the level of players, to improve the level of play?

even if there were only 4 nationals on each of the 16 squads, that's 64 players for hiddink to choose from. considering there's about 1 zidane or maradona, per decade out of those billion or so people born, it would be nuts to think that by changing it to 6 per team (16x6 = 96 total players) it would increase the chance of hitting a jackpot

i didn't count subs, etc but the argument still stands

if you don't want scrubs taking their place against much better foreigners, and rather have good players complementing good foreigners, then improve the lower divisions and their facilities. build academies. but this nationalism disguised as investment in sport is an insult to my intelligence (or that of which i have at this time of night)

when fifa/uefa orders it, fine, even better. level playing field. but until then, we're getting screwed because some grandpas still living in the soviet union said so.

your thoughts

[Zenit]

Originally Posted by sumthingspecial

if you don't want scrubs taking their place against much better foreigners, and rather have good players complementing good foreigners, then improve the lower divisions and their facilities. build academies. but this nationalism disguised as investment in sport is an insult to my intelligence (or that of which i have at this time of night)

This is the primary reason I don't care for the 6+5 rule - it smacks of trying to improve the domestic player pool, yet does nothing to address the root issue at the basic level. The academies, even at the big clubs, are a shell of their former selves - with big money comes irresponsibility and downright laziness, where it is easier to pay money for 2nd choice South Americans than to develop a plan, invest in academies and facilities at the youth level, and develop talent at the youth level up.

Sad to say, Zenit is as guilty as anyone - the Smena academy even a short decade ago was developing top talent out of necessity, more than anything else. One looks at today's academy products - in a word, woeful.

Bottom line, I don't think 6+5 is going to make any difference, save for pricing the existing national talent out of the range of the smaller clubs.

[goliath74]

It depends what it is you want for Russian football? I am no Russian fan but what I would like for Ukrainian football is a powerful UNT first and foremost, THEN strong league.

In the league filled with foreigners there is absolutely no opportunity for a local kid to advance. Unless the kid is a head and shoulders above the expensive foreigners, he's on the bench. That hurts the NT.

One of the reasons Soviet football was so respected is that it remained relevant with absolutely no foreigners. And while the top clubs annualy collected a crop of provincial players, they all still created their own players through their academies.

That, in my opinion, is the only way up for Russian and Ukrainian clubs. Until that happens, a $20 million purchase will stink up the pitch, simply because you have to get any return on it.

I think the rule should be 8+3. 8 locals and 3 foreigners. Why? Then YOU KNOW the foreigners will be the highest caliber. There will not be a myriad of mediocre purchases. And more money left for signing the best local players.

Dynamo Kyiv 1975-1978 had no foreigners, Dynamo Kyiv 1986-1988 had no foreigners, Dynamo Kyiv 1997-2000 had two Belorussians and a Georgian (THAT'S ALL). Foreign additions destroyed Dynamo.

[Dimuha]

6+5 should be the absolute minimum. The more Russians the better, I don't want us to turn into the EPL where Russian players make up like 35% of the league.

[sumthingspecial]

ya, it should be more like 5% English players in the league, finally making it watchable. youu said it yourself, they've got motors in their asses

if you've been watching classic matches and suddenly want to turn back the clock, sorry, foreigners are not the main difference. the sterilization of top flight football (and i guess the creation of the premiere league) is. foreigners not only add to the quality but, for those of you who think they distance the players & fans, they're often the ones with character! look at arshavin, mourinho, even adebayor. compare that to the cliche things lampard or gerrard say. most english footballers are lucky if they're smart enough to tie their own boots. i saw that MoTM interview with the youngster, Wilshire? Please, don't ever interview him again and the premiere league is a global brand now. it's silly to put emphasis on it being english.

i dont think we have to worry about the rpl becoming too big for its own good any time soon, and at the same time i think its a fallacy to say foreigners are what destroyed the league in ukraine. what about the US though. MLS/USL, are comparisons relevant?

[Dimuha]

Originally Posted by sumthingspecial

ya, it should be more like 5% English players in the league, finally making it watchable. youu said it yourself, they've got motors in their asses

It would make the league a lot better, just call it the world league or something.

[sumthingspecial]

edited my post with 2nd & 3 paragraphs, sorry. good call though
"smart minds think a like"
stupid minds also

[goliath74]

Originally Posted by sumthingspecial

i dont think we have to worry about the rpl becoming too big for its own good any time soon, and at the same time i think its a fallacy to say foreigners are what destroyed the league in ukraine. what about the US though. MLS/USL, are comparisons relevant?

It, then, must be a coincidence that the best results by Ukrainian clubs since independence had been achieved:

a) with no foireigners
b) after a limit (however weak) on foreigners had been established.

P.S. I have met some UPL fans who find themselves confused as to how they can follow their own clubs, devoid of local flavor, devoid of any relationship between fans and flavors.

Fans could associate themselves with Grachov, Sokolovskiy, Veremeev, Goshkoderya, Chanov. They can't associate themselves with Okoronkwos, Omokos, Ngvenyas, even Lazarovics, Edmars, and Ninkovics...

As before they clubs were "our team", now they're Surkis' boys or Akhmetov's boys.

[yasik19]

8+3 will never happen.

6+5 is ok by me, but like Z said earlier, you can't really fix a termite-infested house by putting a new coat of pain on the walls.

[goliath74]

Originally Posted by yasik19

8+3 will never happen.

6+5 is ok by me, but like Z said earlier, you can't really fix a termite-infested house by putting a new coat of pain on the walls.

I think the solution is killing the termites.