[Flyin Ryan]

The formation is banned in American football and rugby union. If you don't know what it is, it's the Flying V from the Mighty Ducks movies.

x --------------->
__x --------------->
v___x -------------->
__x --------------->
x --------------->

v marks player that possesses the ball

Crap. My thread title's messed up. That's what happens when you write a title and then take out a part of it.

[code1390]

Um...why would a formation be banned?

Unless the guys in front are running people over to clear room, there wouldn't be a problem.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by code1390

Um...why would a formation be banned?

Safety reasons.

If it's not banned I don't understand why I've never seen it then. Just watching games I always think that teams isolate their players so much leading him to get challenged and usually turn the ball over. If you surround him with friendly players that act as blockers of sort so that the opposing team's players cannot reach the ball, then he could run mostly unaltered most of the length of the field. If they're going fast enough, the only way a defender could take the ball is to run into the wedge of the V (which would likely be as much a foul on the defender as the attacker) or if you're super-fast to run up behind the attacker with the ball and take the ball from his feet.

Has anyone ever seen at least a variant of this in a soccer game as an attack method?

[code1390]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

If you surround him with friendly players that act as blockers of sort?

That would be a foul for impeding or holding if theirs contact.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by code1390

That would be a foul for impeding or holding if theirs contact.

So you're saying that if an attacking player is running straight forward and a defending player runs into him coming at an angle, that it's a foul on the attacking player?

[Ref Flunkie]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

So you're saying that if an attacking player is running straight forward and a defending player runs into him coming at an angle, that it's a foul on the attacking player?

They can run straight, but if they are running shoulder to shoulder to form a "wall", that is impeding. If they leave room and the attacking player moves to stop the defending player from going around him, it is impeding. If the defender is simply standing there and the attacker plows him over, then it is charging (or whatever). There really aren't any instances that I can think of where this is of a benefit (a la Mighty Ducks). Of course, it should be illegal in hockey, as the wedge players are/were committing interference penalties.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by Ref Flunkie

There really aren't any instances that I can think of where this is of a benefit

Really? 6 players (leaving 4 back on defense). 5 running in a V and the guy possessing the ball inside the V. Players can't come in from the side. Players can't come in from behind unless they're real fast. Any sort of Manu Ginobili flop tactic standing there to take a charge would have to be counteracted by having a smart man at the wedge tip to direct its motion to go around which the defender cannot counteract without intentionally tripping or by moving over and throwing a hockey-style body check which should draw a penalty, or the V could split once the advantage has been gained or the defense has attempted to so counteract it they've made themselves weaker over the rest of the field ahead. The V would have to be wide enough so it's not like 5 guys with their arms clasped together to form a wall, but 5 guys separated from one another but running close together in formation at the same speed, with a guy kicking the ball about level with the last two guys. Plus when it splits, that guy can pass to whoever as long as they're onside. So if you have defenders there playing opossum, a running V can take advantage of them not moving.

I think this could work as long as you have fast enough players that're able to synchronize together well. The advantage I see is gaining field position with little pushback from the other team, plus the ability to fool an ill-disciplined defense by concentrating an attack in one spot that cannot be counteracted with only one or two defenders. The hard part would be forming it as it could only be done in a team's own half near their box. It may not work, I'm just trying to be creative determining how to break a defense, and it'd be nice to see how it could work in practice.

I still don't see how this should be a penalty on the attacking player (x is one of the wedge and o is defender).

__________________o
_________________/
________________/
_______________V
x -------------> *

[SoccerScottWV]

Impeding is when you bodily prevent an opposing player from moving to the ball( unless the ball is in your physical possession). The only advantage of a wedge would be to bodily protect the player in possession of the ball. If the wedge was loose enough to not cause impeding it wouldn't be useful. It would also allow no attacking width whatsoever. No use in soccer IMO.

Scott

[code1390]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

Players can't come in from the side.

Thats a foul for impeding the progress of an opponent.

[Ref Flunkie]

Originally Posted by code1390

Thats a foul for impeding the progress of an opponent.

Yup, you can't actively setup players to in essence set picks or impede a player. That is the sole purpose of the formation, therefore it is immediately illegal when a defender approaches and is prevented from going through the "V".