All - As you may or may not know, the original philosophy of moderating this forum was to be a bit of a free for all - to allow for all kinds of crazy threads and leave the heavy moderating/serious discussion to US N&A. We have wanted to be welcoming of outside opinions and allow for some banter, and we've wanted to allow for free flowing discussion without the rigidity of moderator micro-management. As a result, we get some pretty ridiculous threads here. But, as you know, sometimes the most ridiculous threads are the most entertaining and can become instant classics (the kind that are talked about for years here) - and I can think of a few with real potential just this week. Furthermore, sometimes really good discussion can spring forth from some of the most cockamamie of idears. Moderators probably have been known to lean towards majority opinions about what qualifies as quality, and as we know, sometimes the majority is flat out wrong. The problem is - this forum is becoming so chaotic and messy that it's becoming a place that any serious quality poster will avoid, and by "becoming", I'm probably being generous. It's getting to be what I imagine when folks talk about the lawless mess that is/was the BBC and Univision forums. Having this forum be looser on moderating also allows for stricter moderating in places like YA and USA Men N&A. Want to talk about Freddy Adu's tree rings or Benedict Rosselini, you can do it here without moderator intervention but we won't allow it in those places. Part of the reason we are putting this to you, is that there have been threads here recently that many quality posters have been reporting and asking why the heck we allow them, and as you can see from my explanation of the purpose of the forum, we aren't sure how heavy handed we mods should be and what our baseline of moderator intervention should be. And if we were to start getting more involved, do we really need two USA Men forums that are both moderated closely? These forums are heavily trafficked during tournaments, but are the problems we've been having just temporary due to the bad result in a high profile game? Would it help if N&A were the parent forum and USA General were the sub to help realign folks thinking about where the serious discussion is (or it could be side by side the way MLS N&A and General are). Would it help if we added a "Fans" forum, or a "USA Free for all" forum where some of the sillier nonsense could go? So - we really need your input on how much moderating/what your basic moderating preference would be here. Some more starting discussion questions: Do we close threads we think are too far afield? Personal attacks - Do we crack down heavily on all personal attacks or do we allow garden variety "your a moran" posts? Outside opinions - a number of mods have commented on how this forum is starting to feel a little bit like Rivalries - as I mentioned above, we'd like to allow for outside interaction, but if we get too hands off, it seems to deteriorate to Rivalries smack. How closely moderated do you think "trolling" should be? We obviously don't tolerate any trolling in N&A. These are just some examples of where we could get involved - but feel free to comment on other areas. And other mods will chime in if I am missing anything or if they have input. Thanks!
I think the mods should intervene on really, really bad or really, really repetitive threads, but that's just me... I think as far as rivalries go, the same standard should be upheld here as in other countries' forums. No problem with some obsessives who can't get our team off their mind herping and derping in our forums, but anything that is warnable/bannable in their team's threads should be warnable/bannable here as well.
My opinions is that when things devolve into nothing more than personal attacks, the line has been crossed. Just as it would not be allowed to just spend a thread posting random insults at a poster, posting random insults at players or other public figures is similarly destructive. I am quite happy that this forum keeps a light touch with the moderating and am a big believer that ideas should not be stifled. Any opinion has a place. But, I feel there is a difference between moderating a minimal level of conduct and censoring ideas. We can have a free and open exchange of ideas without just allowing anyone to post any random insult they want.
Well, if this forum is supposed to sort of be like the Wild West, then there's not aLOT you can do. The Michael Bradley baiting thread is pretty bad. "Where are you Mikey?" Um, bangin' his new hot wife, rather than lurking bigsoccer, I presume. When a thread is THAT bad, let it run a few pages to see if it gets good (sometimes that happens) and then lock it. The other problem is the repetitive threads. I guess you're working on that. Alot of threads get merged. Maybe more could.
Moderation: Personal attacks- "you are stupid", is not the same as "based on (insert x), that's a silly argument" (I have no problem with the latter). Personal attacks are the hardest to moderate imho because sometimes it's light banter, sometimes it's mean spirited. I would like to see the mean spirited straight out insults eliminated and addressed quickly, while allowing for "colorful" commentary. Outside Opinions- I don't think they have gone too far, I believe some cross posting is good to read different perspectives. This issue only pops up for limited periods that ussally only last a week, before or after head to head competition. Crazy Talk- More often than not, it could go into an existing thread. Move it and let the comment rise or fall on responses it garners in an existing thread. Most off the wall stuff without it's own thread title will be washed out in the mix. Bottom line, more merging, outside opinions good even if some need to be merged. Colorful commentary ok, just draw a line at outright trolling, insults, mean spirited stuff. Edit: The only current front page threads 12:37pm est. I see in need of moderation (this coming from a non MB fan) is the where are you, little Mikey thread. I believe there are plenty of threads that could have been merged into so it didn't stand alone, it does not really add to the discussion here.
The difference between US Men and News & Analysis has been practically negated with basically the same threads appearing in both - and IMO - the threads have been mainly good with lively discussion. I've actually been impressed with the quality of threads in the US Men section. The chaos, trolling, name-calling on these boards is nowhere the level of the BBC, Univision, the "Soccer Blogs" or even on the Facebook Feed for US Soccer - If you have ever read the comments section, it can be downright mean. I see the job of the Mods to merge duplicate threads, delete profane statements, unlawful advertisements, and nonsense threads. Additionally Mods should represent the Message Board in matters in which a Poster reports another for violations of the rules. I'd like to see the Message Board kept as free flowing as humanly possible - less restriction is better. Mods, just continue to keep posting reminders in threads if they get off topic or mean spirited.
I prefer discussing things here because people seem to be more willing to have fun with the discussion, versus News & Analysis where it feels like a political party debate with people entrenched on either side of pretty much every topic. So whatever we can do to keep this forum fun, I support.
Just want to point out that this point is a common misconception - people want to know why they got dinged in another forum but we are allowing the same thing. We aren't planning on basing our moderating of trolling on what others are doing nor do I think we should.
Great idea to emphasize N&A as the "primary" U.S. discussion board and make this a subforum. Personally I'm not into rivalry smack talk/vicarious ego-boosting, but on any sports board that stuff is always going to be around.
I don't think we've been doing too much merging in USA Men general but I could be wrong. So this is another good question that folks are already weighing in on - should we merge obviously similar topics? The problem is that like a lot of this, moderator judgement is involved and people don't always agree with what we think should be merged. Thread starters want their own thread and often feel the topic isn't quite the same as what it's being merged to. And this is leads towards moderator control of discussion, as opposed to letting the cream rise and fall. Just throwing this idea out there, but maybe we should have separate forums for common topics like one for Player formations and lineups and one for player evaluations.
Amen.Why look like the butthurt drama queens who mod the Mexico forum after losses? USA Men is what it is.I don't usually go there except for the comedy gold. I think it's usually clear when threads are careening towards WR level. IMO,looser moderation lets posters find out for themselves who has reasonable opinions and who are just kneejerk humpers of their specific irrational position.
As I mentioned to the 4 N&A Mods, US Men's needs a "You be the Sunil" forum for the type of similar threads that are cluttering USMen & N&A that are have nothing to do with News & Analysis and tend to be repetitive in USMens. I know, great idea.
This is sort of what I was proposing with my player formations and player analysis subforum suggestion - more you be the bob though.
dark knight - you guys are doing an excellent job. keep it up. i think a more open approach is necessary for true intellectual debate. the majority has not always and will never always be right in this country.
This may seem a bit extreme, but is there any way we could implement a sort of democratic system of rep with actual punishments? Maybe once someone has -25 rep they get a yellow, once they reach -50 they would get a red? Something like that I also think would help clean this place up a little bit while not necessarily forcing the mods to step in, it would be more the "voice of the people". It is just a pain when seemingly the same 10-15 posters are the ones bringing down the quality of discussions with consistently poor posting, but aren't being reprimanded because they haven't really violated rules (usually personal attacks of posters). Just a thought, again I know it is a bit extreme. EDIT: Then again, there is always just the ignore option. Whoops. Anyway as far as the other stuff goes, I think making N&A the main USMNT forum would possibly help. I also think a subforum like "You be Bob" or "You be Sunil" or possibly BOTH, would really cut down on people posting threads in the wrong places.
It might help if you could identify your top 10. (In case the smiley isn't enough, I'm not serious!) Rep wouldn't work because there would be massive rep wars to get people banned.
There are different ways of expressing opinions and without getting into detail here about one of your recent threads, let's just say that I don't agree with the way you expressed yours, including the types of personal attacks that shouldn't be tolerated anywhere in this forum. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further, I don't want to clutter a thread that is trying to solve these very problems. Anyway I'll go ahead and leave this thread alone. I've given my opinion on what I think should be done. Thanks for your hard work DK and all of you other mods as well.
Close threads that start degenerating into politics. Especially when talking about the make up of crowds in this country. Being of Hispanic i find some of those comments hovering just below racism. Replace latino with black in alot of those forms and you'll see what I'm talking about. I come to Bigsoccer to talk about the sport not politics there are plenty of other sites for that.. other then that im good
Just a quick note to say heavy moderating is in effect in this thread (I removed some off topic stuff.)
I'm always a fan of less moderation. I feel the community can generally moderate itself and when it can't; so be it.