"Yeah, I meant to do that" - The Dempsey at Fulham thread. III [Rs]

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Real Corona, Mar 20, 2010.

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  1. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Fulham Football Club
    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm all for Clint starting and tearing it up as much as possible in every game, but I have to admit that (1) a little more rest and less wear might help him play at an even higher level this season and (2) Hughes has a powerful weapon to change a game in the second half when Clint is on the bench. While I think he's one of Fulham's best players and will get a lot of playing time this season, it's also possible that he may play less than last season but that could help him have a better overall performance.
     
  2. SeaOtter

    SeaOtter Member

    Nov 7, 2006
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Outside of Fulham's African contingent whom I'm not sure about, Clint has put far more wear on his body than anyone on this team over the last two seasons. It's not going to be a bad thing if he's not on the field for 90 minutes every game.

    It also doesn't diminish his quality or the perception of it to sit the bench from time to time. I doubt he's happy with that, but oh well.

    He gets paid around 40 to 45 thousand per week to force the manager into starting him. If he's earning the money, which I believe he does, he shouldn't have any problem getting plenty of minutes.
     
  3. fingersave

    fingersave Member

    Sep 28, 2009
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Merit seems to be weighted differently depending on where a player is or isnt born.
     
  4. richie17

    richie17 Member

    May 25, 2006
    isn't it? You seem very sure. On what grounds?
     
  5. richie17

    richie17 Member

    May 25, 2006
    Nonsense. Why would you say that? He's played well over 100 games now. Most of us at the Cottage have seen most of them. Most of us love him to bits. Why would you suggest that nationality has anything to do with his current squad status?
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I imagine the best four in midfield may vary from week to week based on opposition,injuries,form,etc.
    It's a funny old game that way.
    It's early days.

    richie,How far below Duff and Davies do you think Clint is?
     
  7. richie17

    richie17 Member

    May 25, 2006
    It's Davies really. Duff, being left footed, is really good cutting in, beating his man, etc, and so it's not Clint v Duff.

    Davies is a different story, as you could go either way. Simon's wonderfully consistent, a better passer, more technically gifted perhaps, but less likely to make something happen out of the blue. Clint defends better, is more likely to do damage from a set-piece (although we haven't seen this for a while from him) (and he can defend set pieces as well) and is more versatile (which I suspect is half his problem, since every manager has used him somewhere different!).

    I get the impression that Davies is a more useful cog in the machine than the less consistent Dempsey, but that you wouldn't go too far wrong with either. But since Davies is the man in possession and playing well then he's unlikely to be supplanted for now.

    Then throw in Gera in the "10" role - fans' player of the year last year - and the new signing of Dembele (Arsenal and City wanted him) and you see why me saying that Clint shouldn't be an automatic starter is not daft, anti-American, or anything of that ilk. It's just a reflection on how far Fulham have come and how well off we are now for attacking midfielders.
     
  8. SeaOtter

    SeaOtter Member

    Nov 7, 2006
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This according to the press often times and to more than the occasional fan.....well, and in reality the FA. ;)
     
  9. SeaOtter

    SeaOtter Member

    Nov 7, 2006
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't have a problem with any of this. Personally, I'd rather Dempsey get the starts, but as long as Fulham are getting points, I'm a happy man.

    Any way you speak about it, Clint will be getting plenty of playing time. If he starts, then no complaints all around. If he sits, he's likely to be first offensive sub off the bench and can sub in for any of Zamora, who's ever playing off of Bobby, Duff, or Davies. What he's got to do is create chances and score like he always has and there'll be a large role for him to play all season long.
     
  10. mccscratch

    mccscratch Member

    Mar 24, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Duff is very very droppable...I just can't agree with that one bit, not been overly impressed with him this season apart from the brilliant move against Manure that started the goal move... How many quality crosses has he put in this season and how many cuts inside to whip a shot thus far, he did plenty of that last season... I am not looking through Clint rose coloured glasses either... Murphy is praised too much by you as well... Dembele does not look any "better" than Dempsey to me thus far other than he is left footed and may have a tad more pace... People will figure him out quickly...just like they did in Holland last season when the season before he was a world beating 9 million pound future star.... last season...not so much...

    Clint should be in the starting 11, it is just a fact... but it won't matter because Davies like always will pick up a knock as will Zamora... I have watched every Fulham match for about 5 years going whenever they can be found and we are at our best when Clint is on the left working with Konch.
     
  11. mccscratch

    mccscratch Member

    Mar 24, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    BTW... read this on FoF and was too nice to say it but since it keeps showing as viable and the fact that I was a Stats and Prop major in my day...this "system" rankings with weight on what people perceive they do well has so many flaws it is virtually worthless... but that is completely another debate...
     
  12. dwreck1971

    dwreck1971 Member

    Feb 2, 2010
    Dildo, Newfoundland
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. Rainer24

    Rainer24 Member

    Jan 6, 2008
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dempsey has had his spot in the team yanked each time a new manager has come in, and subsequently won it back each time.

    I don't think his attitude really endears him to traditionalist British managers, so he suffers initially when a new boss comes in, but his talent and will eventually see him force his way back in.

    Dempsey isn't so good that he can be in poor form and hope to keep his competition on the bench, but I really don't think it's an exaggeration to call him Fulham's most dynamic player and possibly the only one in the squad that the other teams really can't plan for. He does the unexpected, has skill, strength, size, aerial ability, and guts. Fulham has other players with those characteristics, but he is the only one they've got that has them all.
     
  14. richie17

    richie17 Member

    May 25, 2006
    well that's very kind, but seeing as you have no idea how he's done this I won't worry. Weight on what people perceive they do well? It uses Opta stats from everything players do on a field. If several players seem to be doing the same things in the same proportions then it at least suggests that they have similar games, no? It's work in progress, but thought it might be of interest.
     
  15. richie17

    richie17 Member

    May 25, 2006
    Well Duff was ordinary against Bolton, but made both goals against United and seemed to be back to his best against Port Vale.

    Murphy praised too much? Who do you replace him with? Who brings in the leadership, the ability to see things other can't, to direct traffic from the midfield? Murph's game seems to have slipped a bit over the last 12 months, but seasoned observers still think he's one of the best central midfielders we've had since Haynes.

    Dembele got found out? Nothing to do with (all-time great manager) van Gaal leaving and the team (unsurprisingly) suffering as a whole then?

    I don't disagree that Clint deserves to start - my own analysis from a few weeks ago showed that we're more likely to overachieve when he does - I'm just trying to point out that now he's just one of several options we have, and the way things are falling out he's not in the best XI at the moment. That he could be is not really in doubt, but again, it's not a travesty that he's on the outside looking in, he is not disrespected because of his nationality, and I think everyone at Fulham appreciates what he brings to the squad.
     
    2 people repped this.
  16. mccscratch

    mccscratch Member

    Mar 24, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC

    Richie...you know very well that while OPTA is as in depth as any stat available but it does not tell the whole story.... If OPTA told the whole story then Bobby Convey would not have been the highest ranking player during Readings record season in the ColaShip several years back. OPTA does not take many things into account... Who does the player bring in to a game, does that player take more defenders to neutralize, does the players shots prior open up space for other players or is a pass leading to a real chance or just an average pot shot on goal?... Etc...

    Also another thing you said about Clints #23 being the most prevalent @ The Cottage... well I would hope so, he is the longest serving senior member and they can't very well wear Jimmy Bullards kit.... It would make since that a popular players kit combined with the sheer number of years to aquire it would mean that...

    And I am not arguing with you... I just took offence to the Cry for help comment because I think Clint has every right to try efforts like that after all the times his wild stuff has come off... Its what makes him special.
     
  17. Erlking

    Erlking Member

    Aug 7, 2007
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this is a fair statement and competition for places strengthens the squad. They look like a solid side this year with more depth.
     
  18. NCCFBALL

    NCCFBALL Member+

    Apr 19, 2007
    ITALY
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    We have another team in the EPL that has both a MNT and USNT player playing on. Salcido just joined Fulham. Is Fulham and West Ham the only teams that have at least on of each NT in Europe?
     
  19. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    I think so.

    On another note, I'm really beginning to think Fulham will finish in a European spot this season once again.
     
  20. richie17

    richie17 Member

    May 25, 2006
    Ah, but we're talking Opta stats, not their ill-conceived ratings. Colin looks at:

    Minutes
    Goals
    Shots
    Shots created
    Accurate and total passes
    Passes intercepted
    Loose ball recoveries
    Balls lost (dispossessed)
    Tackles won
    Clearances
    Headers won

    And finds players who are alike. Simple, and early days, but intriguingly accurate.


    Re. Clint kits - no, that doesn't work either - even new kits seem to have #23 on them.

    Re. Cry for help - think you're reading too much into a throwaway comment used to convey how the game felt. Namely that Clint has been on the outside looking in, Dembele rocks up and two days later gets minutes against Man Utd, then starts (And dominates) against Port Vale. Dempsey comes on looking angrier than usual, is clearly pressing, then sends up that chip, at which point two of us thought the same thing in the same instant. Not *literally* a cry for help, but a reminder of what he is, how long he's been here, not to forget him, etc. Not that we needed reminding, but that's how it felt at the time.
     
  21. mccscratch

    mccscratch Member

    Mar 24, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Fair enough. You were at the Vale match, I wasn't. As a Fulham fan this is a great problem to have as long as all players feel important...squad rotation is going to be tricky for Mark. Hope he answers that chellenge as Roy really lacked in that area for me.
     
  22. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    On another note, it's depressing that Fulham were potentially 4 minutes away from playing today against Inter Milan in the European Super Cup.
     
  23. McGarnagle

    McGarnagle Member+

    Apr 29, 2010
    Club:
    FC Ingolstadt 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    Given that Sparky has not given Dempsey 1min of midfield time and seems to be bringing in players at exactly his position, it is clear and has been for some time that he is not wanted.

    Moyes...time is ticking away...
     
  25. SeaOtter

    SeaOtter Member

    Nov 7, 2006
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For me, I think Hughes sees Clint as a midfielder and emergency option at forward.

    You'd have to think that Clint will be regularly battling with Duff, Davies, and Gera for time at left or right midfield.

    By the end of September, if AJ comes back healthy and if Gudjohnsen is signed, Hughes will have a great striking corps.

    Our boy will be cover, along with Gera, for Davies and Duff until he can force his way into the lineup. I see no reason why he wouldn't get plenty of minutes though. He's either gotten the start or been first of the bench every game so far.

    He'll be fine.
     

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