Yea, i meant that he was given tons of hype, too much so that it ruined him. Had he developed normally like any brasilian would, he'd probably be playing for a club in brasil, playing/learning in a better soccer enviroment then being pegged as the next pele with unrealistic expectations. Freddy had IMO the raw talent and goods to be a incredible player, under the right enviroment he could have REALLY been the next best thing, US socccer IMO wasnt ready for him, or his ability. We arent at the level where we can 'develop' a superstar yet.
I see. Yea, MD does have a good rep for developing players. But we'll see. IMO the game needs to be changed to have our clubs have development acadamies, and the college system should be secondary, with the best kids playing pro and developing out of HS. When will we be ready to pull this off? I dont know. But thats how kids develop faster and get more polished by playing alongside pros, and mature as players quicker.
Well, that's how, what, 5-10% of talented kids get to be really good, but the other 90-95% get churned up and spit back out by the business end of soccer clubs. Who knows, if they had a college-type setup overseas if those 5% of great kids would still be great, but maybe an additional 20% would be darn good, instead of unused and discarded like in the Academies-only world of international soccer. I think something serious needs to be done to help NCAA change their rules to help college kids develop better, and no I do not mean less substitution, I have no problem with liberal subs in a development-type situation.
I mean thats reality, some of those kids in acadamies can only do so much, and wouldnt be ever ready for pro soccer. Those kids should go off and keep playing for fun, or in college, and let the best kids play pro, do the whole tuition re-imbursement while they play for DC, and if they fail at ever becoming a big name or anything special, they still have some form of a degree when they are 22-24 to fall back on, and they can keep playing "pro" for say real maryland, like the carroll brothers. I mean i know it will never happen, but the whole college system IMO should be done away with. Its more like a speedbump in development IMO for guys that coul be something incredible.
IMO, what you need before you can cut out the NCAA is a strong, stable network of minor leagues. Among US sports, contrast Football and Baseball: Baseball has really strong, really competitive leagues at the highschool age (both affiliated with schools and independent) and a strong minor league system. Football has nothing below the NFL other than college. So nothing's gonna replace college.
Hello, I am Paul Esteban Torres Interesting comments, but, none of you have seen me play!. College is great, but there are negatives to it as well. I don't know how much I've developed since joining Maryland, but I did start a good number of games and was first of the bench for the majority of the season. I plan to either try to find something professional this year or next D.C. United or Spain. I am looking to go to Europe soon if DC does not sign me, and play with the under 20 venezuelan national team since I do not have US passport.
Paul - I wish you luck in your future endeavors whether it's in college, at DCU or in Spain. I've seen MD play 7 times this year, you had 2 starts which is roughly the same ratio that you started 6 of 19 games. Additionally, I saw you play a couple of times at the soccer plex earlier in the year. I wasn't watching you particularly - but all the players (at MD and DCU). I won't debate if you've developed, because I don't know where you started and how much you've improved. In my opinion, you are good on the ball and have some slick dribbling skill. I could see that you would be an asset in the future. I wasn't sold that you are ready now. Venezuela did well in the U20 tournament getting to Final 16. With the U20 2011 being in Colombia, you should have good support (if Venezuela qualifies). I believe that you're a 91. It's your decision, but I would ask you to carefully consider moving on from college until you're sure that you have a place to go. I only say this to attempt to prevent you from making a mistake that can't be fixed. Again, good luck.
In the light that much of this discussion has veered towards value of MLS academies vs colleges, here's my thoughts Different players develop at different rates and advance at different times and peak at different ages Its just too early to see if any of the MLS academies will be able to develop good young talent into MLS starters and career players and even go onto richer leagues in Europe - Up to now thats been the earlier Project 40 and the current Generation Adidas projects to identify and provide the very few top flight players with a more structured professional environment - But even these groups using only the very few most talented young players have had a really spotty record - I can't tell what impact a new CBA with limited MLS club budgets will have on brand new MLS academies, but it will probably be an improvement - MLS academies will take over from P40 and GA the role of identifying the very few best youngest players - With more MLS teams scattered around this hopefully means more younger players being identified in those locales - (But what about St Louis, Atlanta, Florida, Milwaukee, etc?) - Bottom line, I think the best youngest players will do better in the MLS academies than in college - And of course, we all expect and hope that DC United's academies will be the very best in MLS - But thats not going to be the only career path Colleges will be better for those players (who while still really good and on super club teams and state championship teams) who are a bit behind the very best in their development rate - Colleges (along with youth super clubs) will still provide them with a good environment for growing and developing at a more measured rate - And I think they would probably grow to be better players than if they had been thrown into Academies and been in way over their heads - Not as rich as an environment as we hope for from the still untried MLS academies? - Sure, but college sports programs (while limited to full games during a short season) are still year round programs with often two-a-day conditioning and summer conditioning programs - (And I'm talking about even minor sports in even medium sized colleges) - And they ARE definitely getting the opportunity of a college degree - Colleges will be the answer for younger players who need more a slower pace of development for them to get to their highest level, which I think will often be as high as most MLS academy graduates will be So what was the best path for that young player from SA? - Hard to tell - He states that his development may have slowed by being even at one of the best college programs we have - But how much extra time did he spend outside of team practices on his skills and leg strength and just goofing around with the ball on his own or with teammates? - Thats where all the very best pros say they got their extra edge - The extra time they spent outside of normal team practices - What did he do extra? - And please, don't judge any lack of success of MLS academies against the incredible success rate of European/SA academies - There isn't an incredible success rate in Europe - What there is, is an incredible rate of players coming out who can't get on even 3rd/4th division English teams and who are good only as windshield wipers at street corners and round-abouts in England - Hopefully MLS academies will be able to do better than that
Merry Christmas, Happy holidays, It's an interesting subject, whether or not some players should be drafted into professional programs before or in the process of their college playing career. I think it depends on the player on how much they develop during their college careers. Personal experience: From an early age, I've trained 2-4 hours everyday, and its brought me a long way ( I wasn't going to play college/ professional wasn't even an option ) 4 years ago. In college, I know I have developed, its a faster game, and I played in most of the games, started six, but without the extra training I did before and after practice, I don't know how much I could have helped the team. You build confidence through training, and develop good technique and fitness etc... I think some guys go into college and take some breaks between seasons or in the summer, and therefore their game drops as well as their fitness level. Also their are many distractions that make some stray away from a beautiful simple game. It's challenging, and the coaching is great, and their are players who have come out of the program to prove that. So again, depends on the player or program, because I've seen many cases where a player has regressed during their freshman-junior year in other schools as well as Maryland. I do believe academies are helping young players all across the U.S.. Personal experience again, without academy, I most likely wouldn't have been called into the U.S. National team Camp, or would have been exposed to such a professional environment. I think eventually, when soccer is peaking here, academies will replicate the process in Europe.
^^Would you be an example then, of the youth player that just wasnt ready to go pro? And instead better off playing in college? IMO these arent the right players to go directly to pro obviously. The ones that are ready, are the guys that can already play at the higher level of pro, where its faster, more skiled, and stronger then playing at the college level (even practice). Obviously, right NOW may not be best to bring in like 10-20 kids to the pro level, but maybe like at MOST 2-3, given how we dont have anything setup like the reserve league for them to play in. These 2-3 kid would be better being given a spot on the bench, and opportunities to shine in practice, and build their way up and come in as a sub sooner or later, like Altidore for example. Maybe for players like you, at that level, you'd be good to play college, which essentially should be the second rate, compared to kids who go frmo HS to pro's. College should be that 'training wheels' phase for those that want to play at a higher level after HS, but arent PRO material. Maybe if they are better after college, they can try their hands at playing the pro.... but IMO the best out of HS should go and play pro, if they themselves feel they arent ready then they should go to college, but other wise, those that are ready should go straight to MLS.
Poulito may have been ready (or at least ready for an MLS academy), but he wasn't identified - Thats a big plus for the academies over the earlier Proj40 and GA projects - Each MLS academy has several age-group teams in their program and that means a lot more players being evaluated and screened througout the US (except where there AREN'T MLS teams) - Maybe there has been scouting going on that can identify Poulito as a worthwhile throw of the dice Because thats what it always is - In any of the big sports like pro football, basketball or baseball - Kids who did really well in college have about 1/3 chance of succeeding in the pros in these sports - It'll be the same in soccer - And the same holds true for transfers and DPs from outside the US - Most will not make a successful entry into MLS, but some will - Live with it Poulito - Best of luck in your pro career - I hope you make it - Just as I hope every young player makes his dreams come true
Bolivianfuego - I don't think you understand. As Paul pointed out, most of the posters haven't seen him play. He was a top talent coming out of the DC area. If there were another professional opportunity (such as professional reserve league), he would be a candidate. John L - He is on the DCU academy. He was the starting AM for a team that went to the finals. Bolivianfuego - you want a different structure that doesn't exist currently (e.g., the whole college system IMO should be done away with.). That's fine. Until there are professional academies where the players are practicing with the professionals everyday, I don't see how this will be beneficial for the players. The current academy teams play the best players - where every game is a challenge at their level. But the academies are in their infancy and need time to mature. At one time, NCSL was the best competition for U17 players in this area. Now, it's branched to more professional training and approach with competition regularly up the east coast and regular national competitions. Paul - enjoy the holidays. I do appreciate your feedback.
Yea, i understand that it isnt 'there yet'. I mean all i am saying is taking the best striker, or defender, or like Bill Hamid', their best keeper and integrating them into the mens side. It all depends on the talent evaluators that run the academy team to decide if ANY players are ready to make the next step to the pro side, or are just better off trying to grow and develop on the college side (IMO should be considered secondary). I mean hopefully in time we can really develop something outside of the college system, like in everyother country worldwide. And interesting to hear paul is frmo this area, I played at the highest level of NCSL growing up, so im pretty familiar with how it works. $$$$ is another problem IMO from finding the best players that are in the area, as with my team when ytounger, we had good kids, but many didnt have much money to pay so the parents taht had money to spare would often all combine together and help these kids with money, to keep playing at that level. Now things I think are a little different, as more guys are getting discovered that fly under the radar, which is good.
I had to leave this for a few days because it was just getting absolutely freaking maddening. Sure. But my point is that that won't be how it is at DC United. A player who skips college and goes directly to DCU won't be watching and learning from the seniors while training against more appropriate competition, becuase there's no opportunity to do that, since we don't have a reserve league or similar developmental structure in MLS. Period. End of discussion. Nothing more to say. But what you're saying simply does not mesh with the reality in MLS today. College *is* the developmental league. MLS doesn't have an internal developmental league, and MLS teams don't have an internal developmental structure. That's just reality. We can all think of players who, at the age of 18, are great players who can hold their own against MLS teams; the college ranks are also full of players of that age who *can't yet*. It all boils down to which group a specific player is in -- has he already developed to the point where he's better off on an MLS side, or is the level of competition at college better for his development? You can't honestly believe that every single player in college right now would be better off developmentally if they were in the 24 man roster of an MLS team, can you? Really? But you're describing an option for player development that simply does not exist in the United States today. So it's irrelevant to this discussion. Oh come on. On one hand, you're saying that the fact that Adu outplayed Pato at the U20s is irrelevant because Pato has played better at the club level; on the other hand, you're saying that Arguez' utter failure at the club level should be ignored because he played so well for the U20s. Which is it?
Hopefully in time there wilkl be something setup, because IMO college isnt all that. Yes, sadly college is the best development we have to make players. And no, i dont believe every player in college would be better off on a MLS side, learning frmo the pro's. It isnt for everyone, only the elite that are worthy of playing and learning from the pro's, and have a chance at being a Pro. The rest of the 'not ready' kids, need to go to college, to play with lower level players more at their speed to catch up, and maybe when they are 22 they'll be ready and at the level these 18 year olds are at when they would in my mind, come to a MLS club. Yes, but i am talking in theory. Thats the beauty of BS. Why is it so irrelevant? Its possible in the future. DC doesnt have its own stadium, but is it irrelevant the way people make posts and have 100s of posts as a form of discussion about it? No, im not saying adu's play was irrelevant, on the contrary. It is the sole reason he got attention and left for benfica. Had he not played as well as he did at the u20 WC, he'd still be at some team right now in the MLS. Pato just gets more attention cause hes 'brasilian'. There is a stigma for the most part in europe about americans IMO. And Arguez isnt a failiure, he just had a bad stint in germany, for whatever reason it didnt work out for him, but look at landon donovan.... there's still hope. Heck i want him back, without jacobson we are stuck with simms in the df mid position.
Back to the topic at hand (the superdraft if I remember correctly). Buzz has updated his Generation Adidas tracking chart. Signed: Jack McInerney, F, US U17s Dilly Duka, M, Rutgers (almost certainly being drafted by RBNY at #2) Teal Bunbury, F, Akron Blair Gavin, M, Akron Close: Amobi Okugo, M, UCLA Ike Opara, D, Wake Forest Corben Bone, M, Wake Forest And of course, there's a long list of others that are being considered. If Okugo is available at #7, I'd be ecstatic. It just depends what moves we're making at the forward positions, however. Bunbury's a very good prospect, but probably won't be available at 7.
Ives posted an MLS Mock draft yesterday. I'll grant you that he's a moron, but he's less of a moron when it comes to soccer in this country than me.............so here goes. http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/12/sbi-2010-mls-mock-draft-version-10.html 1. Philadelphia Union- TEAL BUNBURY, F, Akron 2. New York Red Bulls- IKE OPARA, D, Wake Forest 3. San Jose Earthquakes- TONY TCHANI, M, Virginia 4. Kansas City Wizards- CORBEN BONE, M, Wake Forest 5. FC Dallas- TONI STAHL, M, UConn 6. FC Dallas- ANDRE AKPAN, F, Harvard 7. D.C. United- ANDREW WIEDEMAN, F, California DC United would love to land Tchani or Stahl here, and could be tempted to grab UCLA freshman Amobi Okugo to help address the losses of Ben Olsen and Andrew Jacobson, but will instead look to strike gold at forward again with a West Coast forward just as it did with Pontius last year. Wiedeman is a polished forward who could step in and earn minutes on a D.C. team expected to lose Luciano Emilio. 8. Columbus Crew- AMOBI OKUGO, M, UCLA 9. New England Revolution- ZACH LOYD, M, North Carolina 10. Chivas USA- LUIS GIL, M, U.S. Under-17 11. Seattle Sounders- DILLY DUKA, M, U.S. Under-20 12. Columbus Crew- BLAIR GAVIN, M, Akron 13. Chicago Fire- OFORI SARKODIE, D, Indiana 14. New York Red Bulls- AUSTIN DA LUZ, M, Wake Forest 15. Los Angeles Galaxy- ZACH SCHILAWSKI, F, Wake Forest 16. Real Salt Lake-JACK McINERNEY, F, U.S. Under-17
The excellent Pro Player Pipeline has released initial rankings for Goalkeepers, Defenders, and Midfielders. Forwards still to come. Also listed is an overall draft list with commentary on players.
The problem I have with Ives' mockdraft is that DC isn't going to land a top forward at the #7 pick. At best, they'd be looking at the second or third (and likely fourth) best forward available. It also doesn't fit a need. Wiedemann isn't Pontius, and, besides, we already have Pontius to fill the exact same role. I would hope that Tchani or Stahl were available (due to our sudden lack of CM presence) and draft him. If neither are availble, Okugo is the next best (and possibly better, YMMV) choice.
MLSDraft.net has United taking Toni Stahl with the #7 pick. http://www.mlsdraft.net/?q=node/21 Comments: Toni Stahl is the best pure defensive midfielder to come out of the NCAA in a while. With DC having a hole in the center of the field it would be nuts to pass on Stahl. I had Johnson hear earlier and I still believe that they are interested in him, but with a guy like Toni Stahl around you have to fill this need before the other.
They should after I bitched to them about us taking Johnson. They had no clue what they were talking about with that choice. Of course, reading the comments for this latest mockdraft prove that the writer still has no idea what he's talking about. KC needs a goalkeeper at #4? Shea and Marosevic are good enough forwards to help FCD this year? Geez. And this comment: Is bullshit. FCD's got talent everywhere, and while some of it may be young, they were gelling during the second half of the season. Their biggest problem is trying to find the right position for everyone.
It's very difficult to be an expert on both the college players and every MLS team with the movement of players (e.g., Holden) what does that do. So, some take short-cuts on either the team needs or the players.
I apologize if that was a site you worked on Joe, but the logic behind the comments made no sense. If they had just given the pick and a brief explanation as to why that selection made sense, it would have been fine. However, trying to go into detail about the other team needs only works if the person actually knows what the team needs rather than try to come up with a list of perceived needs. Saying DC needs a goalkeeper for the future, while ignoring the signing of Hamid, and then saying DC will start a rookie right away is a rambling mess of incoherent and nonsensical thought. It's why I mocked their mockdraft in the first place.
I'd be thrilled if United could get either Tchani or Stahl. Both could be starters depending on the formation the new coach decides to use. If they decide on a flat 4-4-2 I could see. --------------------Wicks/Kocic--------------------- Namoff-------Jakovic------------James-----Wallace ----------------Simms--------Tchani/Stahl---------- Szetela--------------------------------------Castillo ------Tino-----------------------------Pontius------