[BocaFan]

Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos

You have altered the criteria used as you included games in which a team scored four or more goals while I previously only included games in which a team scored five or more goals. You need to remain consistent. I can only assume you did so in an attempt to inflate the number of blowouts you could claim for the Premier League.

Do you mean you used 5 or more goals scored or 5 or more goals differential? I used differential. I think a 4-goal victory definitely can be considered a blowout most of the time.

Whether we use 5 goal differential or 4 goal differential, there are 2.5 blowouts in the EPL for every 1 La Liga blowout.

Pretty convincing.

You appear to be basing your opinion (and standing) an awful lot on a one off game.

Not really. Barca were the best team in Europe throughout last season. One period of a dip in form was seen but that's something every club goes through. By not being as dominant and not winning the FA Cup, United needed that CL final to throw doubt into that claim that Barca was UEFA's best team in 2008/9. They fell miles short on that night. Hence Barca clearly deserve to be rated #1 both in standing and success. Not overrated.

[gmonn]

Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos

The fact that you failed to correctly identify the problems Man Utd faced indicates that I was correct in my claim. Everyone heard all about Barcelona's issues while the ones facing Man Utd were rarely discussed other than a cursory reference to Fletcher being suspended. You appear to be basing your opinion (and standing) an awful lot on a one off game.

The reality is not that clear cut but the people got the victor they wanted so history be damned.

The reason Barca's issues were more discussed was that the English press in general and Man Utd fans had said all season that Barca's first choice defense was suspect and not up to snuff and would finally be exposed. Then that already "inferior" defense lost 3 out of 4 of its members for the final, and the remaining survivor was moved out of position.

So Man Utd faced an entirely "B" defense to one that had already been unrated, and they were shut out. Finally, Man Utd's example of a real defense was punished by a header by the midget Messi. The whole scenario was rather cruel to previous ratings and expectations coming from the Man Utd side.

[Dr. Know]

Barca were not seen as the favorites after the Chelsea match. Most people thought ManUtd would easily beat Barca, especially because of the make-shift defense, yet ManUtd were utterly dominated for 80 minutes. I'm not surprised Teso's trying to rewrite history here.

[Calciodude]

Yes, players with far less skill have done so and are doing just that atm. Football does not have to be hard to understand. It's more about the team he plays for than the league imo.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Originally Posted by BocaFan

Do you mean you used 5 or more goals scored or 5 or more goals differential? I used differential. I think a 4-goal victory definitely can be considered a blowout most of the time.

Whether we use 5 goal differential or 4 goal differential, there are 2.5 blowouts in the EPL for every 1 La Liga blowout.

Pretty convincing.

I included games were a team scored five or more goals. Four goal games are common place regardless of the league involved with anything above that more rare. Five goals or more usually indicates a level of dominance that is deserving of the blowout tag. Four goals can simply be the result of a good/bad performance by the respective teams or the winning team being clinical in front of goal. It is far too early in the current season to make any convincing arguments either way which is why I looked at an entire season.

Originally Posted by BocaFan

Not really. Barca were the best team in Europe throughout last season. One period of a dip in form was seen but that's something every club goes through. By not being as dominant and not winning the FA Cup, United needed that CL final to throw doubt into that claim that Barca was UEFA's best team in 2008/9. They fell miles short on that night. Hence Barca clearly deserve to be rated #1 both in standing and success. Not overrated.

Why should Barcelona being held in higher esteem than Man Utd on the basis of them winning a single match? Over the last three seasons Barcelona finished second, a poor third then first in La Liga while in Europe they lost in the first knockout round, were beaten by Man Utd at the semi-final stage and then won the final in question. In contrast Man Utd had won the Premier League three years in succession while in Europe they lost at the semi-final stage and reached two consecutive finals, winning one and losing the one in question. I do not put much stock in domestic cup competitions when comparing clubs because they vary greatly in format, standing and approach. This fickle approach to ranking is what I have discussed in the various player threads particularly when I make the comparison between best and form. If you want to argue that Barcelona were the form team of the year then feel free but that does not automatically make them the best team in general or overall. I find it utterly stupid to have a constantly rotating list of players or clubs based on whoever is the current flavour of the month or whoever won the last match. It is a futile exercise. Your continued reference to that night indicates that you are transfixed by it which is the point I made in my last post. Barcelona are overrated by the masses for the very reasons I have identified both in this thread and in the past. As I said to gmonn the standing of a player or club is not dependent on success. You can be overrated or underrated regardless of your particular standing.

Originally Posted by gmonn

The reason Barca's issues were more discussed was that the English press in general and Man Utd fans had said all season that Barca's first choice defense was suspect and not up to snuff and would finally be exposed. Then that already "inferior" defense lost 3 out of 4 of its members for the final, and the remaining survivor was moved out of position.

So Man Utd faced an entirely "B" defense to one that had already been unrated, and they were shut out. Finally, Man Utd's example of a real defense was punished by a header by the midget Messi. The whole scenario was rather cruel to previous ratings and expectations coming from the Man Utd side.

The press and fans made the point that Barcelona were rarely tested domestically and their defense, while weak, was generally protected by the team being able to maintain possession and press the opposition back. Would you disagree with that assessment? The games against Chelsea and the early stages of the final itself highlighted that Barcelona's defense was very shaky when put under pressure although their personnel was obviously a factor in the latter. As it was they got lucky against Chelsea thanks to some suspect officiating and woeful Drogba finishing. Against Man Utd they were on the ropes in the early stages but got a sucker punch on the break with a goal from their first attempt. Man Utd heads went down and the team pulled back which enabled Barcelona to start gaining more possession of the ball and which took the pressure off their defense. After that the game ebbed and flowed although Barcelona were more clinical going forward and got their reward with another goal on the break. That is football. I cannot complain about the nature of their goals or who won considering what we did to Bayern Munich. What I can complain about is our relatively poor performance as after the opening goal we simply went flat. That, for me at least, is inexcusable although not as inexcusable as throwing an unbeaten home record away and the chance to top the group simply to give some youngsters a game. That grinds my gears and I am going to head to our board for a good whine shortly.

Originally Posted by Dr. Know

Barca were not seen as the favorites after the Chelsea match. Most people thought ManUtd would easily beat Barca, especially because of the make-shift defense, yet ManUtd were utterly dominated for 80 minutes. I'm not surprised Teso's trying to rewrite history here.

How many times do people have to tell you that the teams were considered even going into the final? I see you are continuing to hold onto the 'dominated' revisionism. What I am not surprised by is your complete failure, as always, to respond to any of my posts. Congratulations on yet another dodge and another post that adds nothing to the discussion at hand.

Originally Posted by Calciodude

Yes, players with far less skill have done so and are doing just that atm. Football does not have to be hard to understand. It's more about the team he plays for than the league imo.

Your view is far, far too simplistic. If it has nothing to do with the league then why do certain players struggle/flourish in differing leagues? The team obviously plays a part but it is not the only factor.

[Dr. Know]

Originally Posted by Teso Dos Bichos

How many times do people have to tell you that the teams were considered even going into the final? I see you are continuing to hold onto the 'dominated' revisionism. What I am not surprised by is your complete failure, as always, to respond to any of my posts. Congratulations on yet another dodge and another post that adds nothing to the discussion at hand.

No they weren't. Stop lying. All that was heard after the Chelsea match were how Barca "struggled against the first good team they played against" and bla bla bla. Some people thought ManUtd would easily beat Barca.

What revisionism? Are you trying to argue that Barca didn't dominate ManUtd for 80 minutes? The 2-0 scoreline was very flaterring considering Barca hit the post and the team missed some sitters. It was totally one sided except for the first 10 minutes.

Most of your posts are garbage so I don't feel the need to respond especially when other people here are also arguing the same things as me.

It's hilarious that you're trying to argue that ManUtd were the better team last season. But that's typical of you.

[Tottenham4life]

Messi is a great player and he would do good no matter where he goes to play