[Caesar]

Originally Posted by scotch17

Would it be accurate to say that would be something like AFC is organized now -- but instead the smaller Federations (EAFF, WAFF, ASEANFF, etc.) take on a much bigger role and more responsibility and organize competitions with eachother instead of it coming down from AFC ??

Kind of. Really, the regional federations would become the peak representative body for each area. AFC would be taken out of the equation altogether - regional federations deal with FIFA direct and be completely responsible for football in their area.

AFC would have nothing to do with development at all - they would just be there to organise competitions for a nominal geographic area. Almost like geographic zones for tennis's Davis Cup.

Pretty radical. But would probably work better for developing football at a grassroots level. Plus AFC could just focus on making Asian Cup, ACL, AFC Cup, AFC Challenge Cup etc. the most professional competitions they can be.

[scotch17]

Originally Posted by Suyuntuy

Key word in my posts is eventually.

As is, it's working for now. I see NZ improving, though.

Also, beating Bahrain means in AFC they wouldn't be minnows, but rather among the four or five nations coming after the big names (Australia, South Korea, Japan are the big ones right now).

Countries that have beat Bahrain in the last cycle:
Indonesia (2-1)
Saudi Arabia (4-0, 2-1, 1-0)
Japan (1-0, 3-2, 1-0)
Australia (1-0, 2-0)
Oman (2-0. 1-0)
Kuwait (1-0)
Azerbaijan (2-1)
Syria (2-1)
Jordan (3-1, 2-0)
Vietnam (5-3)


I would guess the nebulous level Bahrain is at in AFC includes (in no order):
KSA, Iran, DPRK, Uzbekistan, Qatar, UAE, China, Iraq

NZ might belong in that list. On the other hand they might be at Vietnam, Oman, Syria level -- which are kind of on the bubble between possibly being halfway decent and cupcakes.

[scotch17]

Originally Posted by Caesar

Kind of. Really, the regional federations would become the peak representative body for each area. AFC would be taken out of the equation altogether - regional federations deal with FIFA direct and be completely responsible for football in their area.

AFC would have nothing to do with development at all - they would just be there to organise competitions for a nominal geographic area. Almost like geographic zones for tennis's Davis Cup.

Pretty radical. But would probably work better for developing football at a grassroots level. Plus AFC could just focus on making Asian Cup, ACL, AFC Cup, AFC Challenge Cup etc. the most professional competitions they can be.

I don't know anything about Tennis or Davis Cup.
But I think I get the idea. My only worry would be the big club competitions (do they stay small regional or would the regions cooperate to make big ones? That would be up to each region I guess.)
It doesn't sound like a bad idea, even if it is a pipe dream.

[Caesar]

Originally Posted by scotch17

I don't know anything about Tennis or Davis Cup.
But I think I get the idea. My only worry would be the big club competitions (do they stay small regional or would the regions cooperate to make big ones? That would be up to each region I guess.)
It doesn't sound like a bad idea, even if it is a pipe dream.

Big comps would stay, and still be run by AFC. They're really important as elite competitions for clubs and countries (including things like Challenge Cup).

I think allowing AFC to focus completely on the comps and not have to do anything else would actually help them improve.

[almango]

Originally Posted by Suyuntuy

Key word in my posts is eventually.

As is, it's working for now. I see NZ improving, though.

We agree on this. I also think Ceasars idea on increasing the importance of the regions has some merit, but not sure if it will ever happen that way. Australia was allocated to the ASEAN region, but we have still to apply for formal mebership. So far they have invited us to some youth tournaments but we have had no involvement at senior team level.

Originally Posted by Suyuntuy

Also, beating Bahrain means in AFC they wouldn't be minnows, but rather among the four or five nations coming after the big names (Australia, South Korea, Japan are the big ones right now).

New Zealand are capable of upsetting a lot of teams because they never give up. It's a feature of all their sporting teams. They would still be second tier in Asia at best. Definitely not a minnow

[goliath74]

I say put all the South Pacific island nations (aside from Fiji and/or Papua New Guinea) into one Polynesian All Stars team. it will immediately improve the OFC competition or make it a bit more marketable for AFC.

I do not know if it is possible. We do already have footballing federations that do not represent independent countries, so what would be the damage?

[Suyuntuy]

Originally Posted by scotch17

I would guess the nebulous level Bahrain is at in AFC includes (in no order):
KSA, Iran, DPRK, Uzbekistan, Qatar, UAE, China, Iraq

Exactly. Just take China out (they suck right now, honest).

So it's a group of eight instead of five.

As for cupcakes, depends. In a way, the only truly strong team in Asia is probably South Korea, and perhaps Australia.

[scotch17]

Originally Posted by Suyuntuy

Exactly. Just take China out (they suck right now, honest).

So it's a group of eight instead of five.

As for cupcakes, depends. In a way, the only truly strong team in Asia is probably South Korea, and perhaps Australia.

China was in the group of death in WCQs. They've been to a final in the past decade -- which is more than we can say for many of the countries on that list.
I didn't make it up out of thin air based on just the past 6 months...

So you're saying countries like Thailand, Hong Kong, Turkmenistan, Yemen, India, Palestine, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Lebanon, etc. aren't usually automatic wins (cupcakes) for the -- current -- top3?
You're saying it's not a huge upset if one of those countries gets a result against them?

[Suyuntuy]

Originally Posted by scotch17

So you're saying countries like Thailand, Hong Kong, Turkmenistan, Yemen, India, Palestine, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Lebanon, etc. aren't usually automatic wins (cupcakes) for the -- current -- top3?
You're saying it's not a huge upset if one of those countries gets a result against them?

No. Where did you get that from?

I'm saying New Zealand is in the group right after the Big Three (S. Korea, Australia and Japan).

I don't care about results from five years ago. I'm more concerned with results in the last two years. In the last Asian Cup qualifiers (January this year), Syria beat China handily.

[scotch17]

Originally Posted by Suyuntuy

No. Where did you get that from?

"As for cupcakes, depends. In a way, the only truly strong team in Asia is probably South Korea, and perhaps Australia."

That was in reply to my statement that countries outside the first 3 tiers in AFC are cupcakes. Would you like to clarify that statement now?

The other issue is just how you far back you want to go. Obviously you only want to use very recent results as it seems you know next to nothing about AFC. Syria beating China isn't "OMG China sucks" -- Syria has been on that bubble for awhile now (you might notice I specifically listed them earlier... ). They can play a game when they get their heads into it. They're a half-step apart imo so it doesn't disprove anything I've said about China.