[The Marquis]

Originally Posted by UPinSLC

from the portland mercury article posted above by bright:

OH I'm not crazy. Thank Poltl.

[bright]

Yep, I was going to comment on that quote at the time, but it wasn't pertinent to the point in that post. Mazziotti could have been referring to only a portion of the site that would have been more immediately available for the smaller minor league stadium. The real issue with that property is the potential for delays as they wait for the school district to find another place to set up shop and vacate the premises. Just speculation on my part, though, that Adams would try to push that site. I bet stuff like this happens more behind closed doors from now on. Paulson probably wants the next version of the deal to have solid support in the council before going public with it.

[bright]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ably_will.html

Mayor Sam Adams and sports team owner Merritt Paulson agreed Thursday to indefinitely delay a City Council vote on where to put a new minor league baseball park so they can explore the once-discarded option of Southeast Portland's Lents Park.

Commissioner Dan Saltzman said he wouldn't vote to raze the coliseum without a more lengthy public process, one that lasts two or three months and takes a hard look at alternatives.

"If I'm going to make a decision to demolish the coliseum, I'd like to do that knowing there's been some process to look at the options," he said. "All these competing uses in the Rose Quarter and the implicit commitment of public money makes me think we ought to slow it down."

"If we come to September and we don't have a deal in place, then we're not going to have Major League Soccer in Portland," Paulson said.

In a joint discussion late Thursday with The Oregonian, Adams and Paulson said they would take the extra time to work up the details on what it would cost to build the baseball park in Lents.

But both men said the Rose Quarter -- with or without razing Memorial Coliseum -- is still an option they will vet.

[UPinSLC]

you know who the people that will really suffer from all this bullshit are? soccer fans in portland. everyone will get theres, politicians, blazers, entertainment district, etc, but timbers fans and soccer fans in portland are going to get f'd in the ass on this one. they are going to have to work their asses off to get a deal in place for another site and considering how much time they have wasted already bickering over the MC you really have to wonder if its going to get done. this sucks, period. why do we have such idiotic politicians running our city? i just dont understand how someone with so little intelligence can get elected like this (this coming from someone who is working on my PhD in molecular biology, i would consider myself a pretty smart person). the only thing these people are good at is bullshitting to get themselves elected, and then more bullshitting to get themselves money and re-elected. god i hate politicians.

[bright]

UPinSLC. I agree. Adams and Paulson are chewing too much at once. I think Dan Saltzman is being the most level-headed out of the entire council. Adams is obviously in Paulson's pocket. Leonard and Fish have future political aspirations. Fritz has to maintain her populist aura as she got elected with public funds.

The stadium deals need to be decoupled. Take care of the PGE Park renovations and financials separately, and get it settled ASAP. If the Beavers have to share for one year, it's not a big deal. If the Timbers have to delay entry to MLS until 2012, it's not a big deal.

I also believe that if Paulson makes any more statements like the one above, he is going to make enemies. People will not buy that kind of ultimatum talk. That's a game of chicken he will lose.

[evangel]

I find all this funny. I've read articles and threads all around regarding this issue, and the more I read the less danger I see the Timbers in. Especially considering the fact that not once have I seen Saltzman give even a hint that he would vote in such a way that will spell the end for the MLS team. Everything he does strikes me as pure posturing so as to have the least amount of backlash when it comes to voting for something, especially considering that the absolute deadline for solving all this is still many months away.

[bright]

evangel, Sam Adams and Merritt Paulson have both made poor political decisions regarding these deals. Saltzman would have voted no against the current proposal as-is. That is why this thing keeps getting delayed.

If the two stadium deals are not decoupled, there is a chance that the Timbers' MLS bid could sink with the Beavers stadium deal. Saltzman wants to decouple the deals in order to ensure that the PGE Park deal does not suffer needlessly. You are right that he wants the MLS bid to work out. But that is all for naught if the PGE Park deal continues to be tied up with the Beavers stadium deal.

There are still a number of financial issues lingering that are not being addressed because of these delays.

[evangel]

Originally Posted by bright

evangel, Sam Adams and Merritt Paulson have both made poor political decisions regarding these deals. Saltzman would have voted no against the current proposal as-is. That is why this thing keeps getting delayed.

If the two stadium deals are not decoupled, there is a chance that the Timbers' MLS bid could sink with the Beavers stadium deal. Saltzman wants to decouple the deals in order to ensure that the PGE Park deal does not suffer needlessly. You are right that he wants the MLS bid to work out. But that is all for naught if the PGE Park deal continues to be tied up with the Beavers stadium deal.

There are still a number of financial issues lingering that are not being addressed because of these delays.

That's what he says. Or does he? Note that he was never flat out against it. He knows that there is enough time to find other solutions. Hence, from his position, looking for a solution with less problems would be better since it's possible to do so.

But would he have voted no to destroying Memorial Coliseum if there were no other possibilities? Let's just say it's not in his M.O (though he would have voted against in the March vote if this had been the case). Now that the first vote has come and gone, Saltzman will push for looking at other possibilities, go with the alternative if possible, and knowing that losing the MLS team would cause a debacle he would get caught in with Paulson and PGE Park's debts, he would vote for the Coliseum site if nothing else works. All this while never being the center of all the publicity and always coming off as the most calm of the bunch. He would have a connection to MC's destruction, but would never be the one blamed for it.

A very calculating man, this Dan Saltzman.

[bright]

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2009/04/...baseball-deal/

City Commissioner Dan Saltzman walked into last week’s hearing at City Hall on Portland’s controversial stadium-building deal with Merritt Paulson prepared to offer a new amendment calling for a 120-day “time out” on Mayor Sam Adams’ rushed deal.

Saltzman wouldn’t say how he would have voted today if the mayor had asked for a decision, but he cast doubt on the likelihood of a “yes” vote next week. “This is the way I’m feeling right now, and that will likely be reflected if this came to a head next week,” Saltzman said.

evangel, read into that whatever you like. I see him being as politically forthright as he can be. And the actions of Adams and Paulson proceeding this statement speaks volumes. A 120-day timeout would have made the September 1st deadline unworkable.

Saltzman has recommended decoupling the stadium deals. If Paulson doesn't listen, he will be putting the MLS bid in jeopardy over a minor league baseball stadium. Paulson is gambling that the baseball stadium deal can be worked out before September, and he is essentially threatening to take MLS away from Portland if they don't get the baseball stadium deal done.

The council will have to consider a brand new deal anyways if the baseball stadium goes back to Lents as originally planned. The deal they voted on in March included putting the baseball stadium in the Rose Quarter, which looks to be dead. They should just decouple the deals now and vote on a brand new MLS-only deal. Then they can go focus on the baseball stadium deal separately. This is how I am reading the situation.

[evangel]

Originally Posted by bright

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2009/04/...baseball-deal/





evangel, read into that whatever you like. I see him being as politically forthright as he can be. And the actions of Adams and Paulson proceeding this statement speaks volumes. A 120-day timeout would have made the September 1st deadline unworkable.

Saltzman has recommended decoupling the stadium deals. If Paulson doesn't listen, he will be putting the MLS bid in jeopardy over a minor league baseball stadium. Paulson is gambling that the baseball stadium deal can be worked out before September, and he is essentially threatening to take MLS away from Portland if they don't get the baseball stadium deal done.

The council will have to consider a brand new deal anyways if the baseball stadium goes back to Lents as originally planned. The deal they voted on in March included putting the baseball stadium in the Rose Quarter, which looks to be dead. They should just decouple the deals now and vote on a brand new MLS-only deal. Then they can go focus on the baseball stadium deal separately. This is how I am reading the situation.

You always have to read between the lines when it comes to deals like this. Your interpretation of the articles is as good as mine, but the more I read everything, the more I get the feeling that Saltzman is the one calmly running the show.

In fact, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. My argument is simply that Saltzman won't let this go down as easily as believe he will. He's going through the necessary motions to preserve his political capital. If Lents becomes possible, he'll most likely vote for it. I just don't believe that he's going to stubbornly stick to any one plan. As has been the case since the very beginning of Paulson's plans, Saltzman is going to let things flow and interject some ideas at the proper times.

He might prefer decoupling the deals, but he won't stick to it and let the entire plan fail.

This is all a matter of differing interpretation, like you said. But that seems to me how Saltzman has worked this all along.