[ItsCalledSoccer]

Being as DC United is now owned by gentlemen who are "Minorities", I think that trumps the mere position of "Coach".

I am a pilot.

I care only that the pilots I work with can do the job, and do it well. I could give a damn what color their hair, skin, or eyes happen to be.

When it comes to my Team's owners, and Coaches, I feel exactly the same way.

Well put. Even in a league as small as MLS, it takes skill to become a coach. When someone acomplishes something like that, its a shame to focus on skin color when there are so many more important things to respect about that person.

[yellowbismark]

I would like to see more Black coaches. I don't know if I'm in favor of a mandatory rule, but I do think that Denis Hamlett is looooong overdue for his chance to be a head coach. And Robin Fraser coaching in MLS would be really cool, hopefully it happens one day soon...

[bluemeanies]

Originally Posted by ItsCalledSoccer

Well put. Even in a league as small as MLS, it takes skill to become a coach. When someone acomplishes something like that, its a shame to focus on skin color when there are so many more important things to respect about that person.

But the question really is:

Is MLS currently truly looking for the best possible coach of all possible candidates or is it relying heavily on a good old boy network of former coaches and assistant coaches who look predominantly towards former players who are white?

I think that a Rooney type rule would expand the myopic short lists and rampant recycling that some see as a problem with the way a coaching search is currently carried out in the league. Black former players for whatever reason are not part of a process for hiring coaches that some see as dysfunctional as is. Whether a 'Rooney rule' would fix the problem or add one or two names that keep coming up is debatable.

If the Rooney rule forced a team to look for a minority coach outside of the normal channels and that coach is successful it would not only make MLS look closer at minority candidates but also at people who don't follow the current roads to MLS coaching which would benefit all.

I guess I would be equally or more happy with a selection rule that said "One finalist for a Head Coaching (or assistant) job cannot be a current or former MLS Head or Assistant Coach" than "One finalist for a Head (or assistant) must be from an ethnic minority." but the second rule might provide candidates who meet the qualifications of the former.

[CHICO13]

Originally Posted by yellowbismark

I would like to see more Black coaches. I don't know if I'm in favor of a mandatory rule, but I do think that Denis Hamlett is looooong overdue for his chance to be a head coach. And Robin Fraser coaching in MLS would be really cool, hopefully it happens one day soon...

At what point does some of the responsibilty fall on the black candidates shoulders? When the DC United job opened up I'm sure Piotr Nowak was the last person Kevin Payne thought he'd ever hire for the job. Nowak went after it aggressively. If Hamlett or Fraser want to coach shouldn't they openly say so and pursue it?

[John L]

Originally Posted by DrLudicrous

That would be a silly name for it, Wayne Rooney is neither black nor a coach.

And all that the "Rooney Rule" says in the NFL is that owners/GMs must interview at least one so-called "minority" coach for the head-coaching job, including "Ginger People" like Wayne Rooney, hence the name of the rule - Unfortunately, this led to a mockery of the interviewing process, when owners started interviewing just one black guy whom they had absolutely no intention of hiring - And everybody knew it

Oddly enough, the first "minority" head coach in the NFL was Tom Flores of the Oakland Raiders, long before the "Rooney Rule"

[JoeW]

I'm amazed at how extreme the positions are in this thread and so many of them are tied into perceptions of affirmative action or absolute racism or stereotypical definitions of "minority" and diversity.

1. I don't think ANYONE is saying that MLS or any team or USSF should be forced to hire a black candidate. Nor does the Rooney rule say that. It only says that you need to interview a mix of candidates and you need to show due diligence. There is no hiring quota.

2. Folks who want to get obnoxious about a variation of this forget that we've already done it. Repeatedly. Alan Rothenberg REQUIRED Bora Miluntonic to hire an American as an assistant coach (which ended up being Steve Sampson). Sunil Gulati indicated that if a foreign coach would be hired to coach the USNT, he would speak Spanish and he would have an American assistant.

Now people would say "that's not requiring a black" but fundamentally that's the same thing. Anytime you say "you will hire someone from this group" it's the same principle. And USSF has already done this repeatedly in different ways.

3. I'd argue that the Black-White distinction is artificial in this instance (and thus it's why I don't think a Rooney Rule for black coaches in MLS or USSF is necessary). Sandon, you're right, there have been 8-9 Blacks capped in the 80's by the NT. Guys like Lincoln Phillips have been very unappreciated. But I think a traditional B-W perspective is very limiting in the case of MLS. It's not b/c there isn't racism. There is. Good Lord, go to pre-match of an Old Firm game where Gers fans talk about drinking Finian blood, or was it the Spanish NT coach talking about his team wasn't going to be beaten by some "monkey" (ie: Thierry Henry), or Fabio Capello insisting that he won't have any more Dutchmen playing on any team he coaches, or the divide betwen Northern and Southern Italy. The sport is full of racism, sectarianism and division at times and it can get quite ugly. Sometimes it's about race, sometimes about Nationality (having been hit by a bag of urine at a US-Mexico match and seen a group of Salvadoran fans burn an American flag I can personally attest to that), sometimes it's about language, sometimes it's about religion, sometimes its about what side of the City you live on. I personally think Lincoln Phillips didn't get coaching gigs, not b/c he's black but b/c he's from the Islands. And for the longest time, it was English coaches and English direct football that was the model in this country.

I bet if we ran stats for hispanics (number of hispanic players capped by the USA in the 80's) we'd fine more than the 8-9 number of blacks and just as few or fewer coaches. Why doesn't Juan Carlos Osorio get a head gig in MLS? Why not Ralph Perez (who was a USNT assistant to Bob Gansler)? Some of the hispanics who have played for the NT (Hugo Perez for instance, Tabare Ramos) are arguably better players. There is a larger pool of hispanics playing the sport in this country than there is of African-Americans. If there was to be a Rooney Rule, it would arguably be more appropriate for hispanics than blacks--that MLS should make sure teams consider either hispanics in their pool of coaching candidates OR spanish speaking candidates. And it's not b/c we're expecting our guys to coach Chivas-USA, it's that increasing we need to be credibility in the Hispanic/Latino community.

Furthermore, from a soccer perspective, I'm not sure that "black" is the issue. For instance, let's suppose that Eddie Pope were to get hired as a coach. He's basically a "white-bread candidate." His skin may be black and he's been heavily involved in promoting the sport with minority groups. But there are a lot of Africans who've immigrated to the USA and play the sport and they're badly under-represented in the coaching community. Almost all of them happen to be black.

My point isn't to make a laundry list of groups we should have Rooney Rules for. Rather, it's that the traditional black-white perspective which "works" for an American sport like the NFL or baseball breaks down a bit when we consider soccer. I think the more traditional reality is this: Most USSF coaches and a lot of MLS coaches either have ties to Europe or ties to a middle-class, suburban, college-educated experience in the USA. If you ignore skin collar and just look for hispanics or Africans or Asians (all groups that are well represented in this country and play soccer passionately), you'll find very few coaches within USSF or MLS.

I think Soehn hiring Ashton is less about race and more about--they were both middle class guys who both went to college and played college soccer. Ashton "happens" to be white. If Soehn had hired a black assistant, it likely would have been someone like: Denis Hamlett--who played college soccer. The guys who weren't considered were pros from the Islands or Africa or Asia or Hispanics or Latinos.

Nowak is a bit atypical of an example: both Hamlett and Osorio (black and latino) were the other finalists for that job. By the Rooney Rule standards, DCU would have satisified those rules (of at least one minority on the short list). And Nowak was never a typical candidate (a typical candidate would have been a white guy with either college playing experience and either MLS coaching experience or USSF coaching experience). Hiring Nowak (an Eastern European to-boot) was breaking the mold.

Last point: some have said that "quotas" means not hiring the best guy for the job. This misses the point: b/c of a failure to open up the pool, you don't hire the best guy for the job. You only hire a former Assistant (who came from college or the NT and there is likely a former European or former college player).

[mselden]

Originally Posted by FireFanInPackerLand

I've been hearing all week how what a sign of progress it is that there are two black coaches in the Super Bowl.

Wouldn't it be a bigger sign of progress if that wasn't mentioned? (ie: that it wasn't an issue?)

Hire coaches on merit, not to fill some quota.

I could not agree more. Most people I know that were born after 1970 recognize race for what it is: a color. It means nothing. Some people have blue eyes, some people have black skin. Big deal! Who gives a crap? Black, white, and brown are just colors.

We have made much progress in this country. If we want to see even more progress, we need to play down race. We need to stop mentioning it all of the time, as if it were relevant. So we have two African-American coaches in the Super Bowl. So what? Who cares? They are just people like all of the rest of us. Their race is irrelevant.

My fear now is that all of the progress in race relations could be lost because people will not leave race alone. If we keep shoving race in everyone’s faces, making it a point to give preferential treatment based on skin color, and take it to the point that the "majority" becomes the victims of institutional racism on every level, there will be a backlash. And, that backlash will be used by some as "evidence" that racism still exists. But, the fact will be that the backlash will be the result of some people being kicked in the face too many times because of THEIR skin color. Think about it!

BLACK IS JUST A COLOR!

[superdave]

Originally Posted by John L

Oddly enough, the first "minority" head coach in the NFL was Tom Flores of the Oakland Raiders, long before the "Rooney Rule"

Actually, the NFL had a black coach in the 1920's. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think his name was Fritz Pollard.

[leg_breaker]

Originally Posted by bluemeanies

I guess I would be equally or more happy with a selection rule that said "One finalist for a Head Coaching (or assistant) job cannot be a current or former MLS Head or Assistant Coach"

So you're going to force MLS teams to consider people for head coach who have never even been a coach or assistant?

[JoeW]

Originally Posted by leg_breaker

So you're going to force MLS teams to consider people for head coach who have never even been a coach or assistant?

If that was the rule, than you'd just be limited to former players, coaches and assistants from outside MLS, college coaches, USL coaches, and USSF team and staff coaches. Not exactly a small pool.