This is not the black or white issue you suggest it is. For example, would it have been O.K., from your view, if Eclipse had passed forward but instructed its mids and strikers to not exert maximum energy to win the ball, thereby preserving their energy for the final? If not, where do you draw the line, i.e., is it ever O.K. for a youth coach to tell his players to pull off the throttle for a portion of the game, thereby preserving their energy for later portions of the game to maximixe their chances of winning the game? If you would allow for the possibility that exerting less than 100% effort to try to win a game is acceptable, then you should allow for the possibility that exerting less than 100% effort to try to win the whole tournament is acceptable. IMO, winning the tournament is more important than winning one game, but perhaps I'm old fashioned.
I'm not playing devil's advocate. I don't know these teams or the people involved. I am not going to point fingers or claim holier than thou when it comes to what someone else does playing a soccer game so long as no one got hurt. There is way too much finger pointing and complaining in youth soccer. Do your own thing, set your own example, and if it is so good then you will have no trouble attracting like-minded people to your team or club. The one objectionable thing to me in this whole story is the behavior of the parents on the other teams. Leave the kids out of it, and they didn't.
These past few posts are outstanding....really. The reason is that they distill the issue down into a simple fact. One either believes that the Eclipse team purposely threw the game or not. While I have no dog in the fight as they say, I have chosen to side with believing that the Eclipse team did *not* throw the game. Here's the reason: In our culture and many others, the single most serious charge you can level at an athlete is that he threw the contest. With that in mind, my opinion is that we should make that assertion very carefully. I personally think that the evidence here is not strong enough to make the charge. Yes we have a 90 second video and some personal accounts damning the team. We also have a video that purposefully spins the issue with opening and closing comments and is only 1.5 minutes of an 80+ minute match. On top of that we also have as many in this eye-witness accounts from individuals claiming to be referees indicating that they saw nothing wrong with the match. If this is unsporting behavior, where is the line of what is not. (As far as the COde of Ethics goes, it'sjust that, nothing more, it's not enforceable, if FIFA wanted to make it enforceable they would integrate it into the Laws of the Game). The Laws of the Game state that dissent is unsporting behavior and to be punished. So shall we strictly enforce the Laws of the Game and those that don't exist? If so, the please feel free to excuse yourself next time you moan over a referee's call whether he was right or wrong - sorry against the rules to do so. To sum up: Let's be careful about how we choose to use the cheaters label. It's a slippery slope to moral absolutism which serves no one at all. To those who are wondering what evidence I would need: How was the first goal scored? Despite repeated queries, none of the 'eye-witnesses' (from either side I might add) has graced us with the description; More video - 90 seconds is not enough; an unbiased video - unfortunately, to give us more video the camera man would potentially risk embarrassing friends and family with the police incident; a recording of the coachs pre/half game instructions; signed statements that the game was thrown. To DC1812: I played rugby in the late 80's and 90s. I played U19 territorial (US West region) matchs against Wales, Scotland, Ireland and NZ, U21 matches against England, Scotland, Wales, and France, developmental (B) team matchs against NZ and Aus. There's more. At the same time, I played club soccer for fun.
Unfortunately, the moral approach isn't always the best decision from a financial standpoint. I don't think I'm too far off-base to say that.
Actually, I never said it was acceptable. I said it would have been less than ideal for them to not exert themselves 100%, but still better than zero effort. It's not absolutely black and white. It's not black and white because we don't have enough facts to be 100% sure what the intent was. I'll admit that. But the evidence looks pretty strong, IMHO. Further, I think the moral difference between trying to win and trying to lose is obvious. IF-and I'm humble enough to admit I don't know with 100% (or 99%) certainty- they intended to lose, they have no sympathy from me and what they did was clearly wrong. IF that was not their intent, their behavior was merely less than ideal by laying off the gas pedal. Still not great.
I think this is a reasonable response. We just happen to disagree as to the amount of evidence. This is something about which reasonable minds may differ. It all looks pretty damning to me. They clearly had zero intention of winning at least during that 90 plus seconds of video. Maybe it was just in the last couple minutes of the game and only in the end did eclipse decide to throw in the towel. That would at least be better than deciding to lose before the game.
For the most part, everyone is ignoring the biggest problem here. The parent who ran on to the field should never see another youth soccer game, EVER! There should be no debate on that. That is a far greater crime against the game than anything Eclipse is being accused of. I am fairly confident that there was no pre-game directive from the Eclipse coaches to their team to deliberately lose the game in order to determine which opponent they would face on Sunday I don't think there is any way someone could prove, without a doubt, that their only goal was to conserve energy and prevent injury in order to have a better chance at winning the championship. That is all I see in the video - a team conserving energy. Remember the perspective of the start of this discussion . . . we have a video clip, posted on two different threads by two different usernames, presumably filmed by a parent or supporter of the Texans that is watching their team's chance of playing in the National Championship dissappear. It was a situation in which that individual would be helpless to change and unfortunately was drawn out over a very painful to watch 60-70 minutes. That has got to be very frustrating. The only release this person had was to post the video and watch wild accusations about intentionally trying to lose start to fly. Accusations that even the presented video clip can't prove.
This is really bad news for the youth coaches and organizations that try to prevent "blowouts" through tactics (adding/subtracting players, passing only, left-foot shooting only, etc.) or league regulations. So, let me get this straight: per the FIFA disciplinary code, playing "keepaway" to rest players in oppressive heat for a championship final is bad, and going "full speed ahead" with a blowout situation is good.
I don't think anyone has defended the poor behavior of the opposing parent(s) but it certainly does not excuse or justify Eclipse's behavior. The whole thing was a sorry, sorry spectical. Eclipse just kicking the ball back and forth. PDA just standing there. Opposing parents yelling. The crazy dad. Kids on the other field crying because their match no longer mattered, etc. Whether Eclipse started out to intentionally lose the game, I don't know but they certainly were making no effort to play it. If you only wanted to "conserve energy" and had no interest in actually playing the game then you should have just forfeited the match and not left the hotel. At least that would have been honest.
Example of a team losing intentionally: They're in a two leg matchup. They win the first game 2-0. In the second game they're down 0-1. They then play conservatively for the last 10-30 minutes so as not to go further down. The are behind in the game, but not for the tournament, so they don't need to score. This is a similar situation to that of the Eclipse U15. Another example was from a Euro Competition. I think the teams involved were Italy, Sweden, and Denmark. If Sweden and Denmark tied 2-2 or higher, then they were both through eliminating Italy. After a fiercely fought 60 minutes or so the score was 2-2 (or maybe 3-3). Both teams played extremely conservative after that. Also with Italy-Mexico in Japan02, both teams were guaranteed going through near the end of the match, so the game was even less exciting that the Eclipse game. The Eclipse controlled the ball 70-80% of the game. If they lost it, they worked hard to maintain control. By controlling the ball they expended half the energy that PDA did - particularly early in the game when it was still scoreless, but also after the goal.
Great examples of how these "gamesmanship" practices are the standard in the sport when applied within the rules of competition.
my $.02. Eclipse did what was necessary to achieve their goal - to win the National Championship. For some of these kids, this is the pinnacle of their sporting career, and they will remember "getting it done" for the rest of their lives in all areas of life. As long as they did not kick the ball into their own net, they are within bounds. Other teams need to win games. Period. They worked hard to put themselves into the final early, and they deserved a rest. If I work triple time, neglect my family and health, etc. for a period to earn money and grow my financial estate, you can't get mad when I am retired the rest of my life. I did the work you didn't do. I won, you didn't. I paid the cost up front - a huge risk - and it paid off. You just can't fault me for that, even though I am driving by you with my family and boat while you are on the way to work.
This is a great post. Should start a seperate thread on this topic, creating a vision. Every sucessful company in the world has a vision. Creating a vision for the kids is a big influencer. There are many ways to motivate, but inspiration and vision I feel are the best and longest lasting. A small example is a trainer at our club with the young kids. He notices their playing style and tendencies and started nick naming them various players when running a training session. A Ronaldinho, or a Rooney, or a Roberto Carlos or a Robinho. These kids on their own started looking up the players, paying attention to them, watching them on TV and trying to emulate their moves and style even more. Now the kids pick their shirt numbers based on their new idols, and really play like mini versions of those players styles. They have bought into a vision, already have a favorite player to look up to. It is great to watch. Reminds me of being a kid and purposely having my baseball cap fly off my head and running into the fence in my back yard to make a "Freddy Lynn" against the green monster catch.
Just a response to an earlier post when the discussion was more about coaching styles and motivation, and that if yelling and verbal abuse was the best motivator. Like I said, probably should be start a seperate thread, as I continued to read, it became more about sportsmanship in this national tournament.
Dind't the LA Clippers and Memphis try their hardest to lose games at the end of the NBA season so they would avoid Dallas in the first round of the playoffs? The teams believed playing someone else gave them the best chance to win the NBA title. They rested a lot of their regulars as the season came to an end. Eclipse did the same thing but its game tactics were insulting to sports. Losing a game intentionally is not as wrong as just not even playing. They could have achieved the same goal by just knocking long balls towards their strikers all game. Also the even if they clainm they wanted to conserve energy, I bet most of those backups had not played much in the first two games. And those girls likely did not see the field in the final.
Eclipse Select U17 and the club/high school debate.... Interesting article in the Daily Herald, a suburban Chicago paper: http://www.dailyherald.com/search/searchstory.asp?id=216367 Discusses the Eclipse U17 national champions, with a focus on the "club or high school" decision.
Tom Zec is only coaching 1 boy's team and it is in the Eclipse West location. His only other teams are U-15 and U-16 girls at the Eclipse West location.
lame...god forbid he has an interest outside of soccer. zec can get it done, works his players hard and gets results. as long as he gets the resources he needs at eclipse he will produce some quality boys players and teams.
Gazoomba is determined to prove his stupidity............ Zec is a good coach and now that HUSA and Team Chicago boys are under the Eclipse umbrella look for the Eclipse boys to improve as the years go by. Marc McElligott from HUSA is handling the older Eclipse boys teams..... This will be a winning combo........
Does anyone know if Tom Zec will be coaching at HUSC or will he be staying with the girls in the Eclipse West in Geneva?
Zec will be doing the Geneva-Hinsdale hustle All Magic and ex-Magic coaches know how to drive really fast
Boy I heard that Zec was going to take over an Eclipse South team and the parents wanted nothing to do with him! Whats up with that? Any scuttlebutt about coach shuffeling at the Eclipse now that they have "merged" with so many other clubs? Their web site sure isn't up to date on this kind of stuff.
Sometimes parents don't know whats best for the kids ...Zec is very demanding on his players, but he is a good coach none the less. He cares about his players, and I know many former players of his who have been coached by some of the most respected youth coaches in IL and they wouldn't trade Zec for any of them. He certainly takes some getting used to though.