What will be the outcome of the saga over Iran's nuclear weapons?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Iranian Monitor, Mar 12, 2005.

  1. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The Iran-EU nuclear talks are at a stalemate, and most observers do not expect a quick break through. What do you think will emerge from all this at the end of the day?

    (1) Iran will be able to maintain its uranium enrichment program and develop nuclear weapons despite international pressures.

    (2) Iran will be able to maintain its uranium enrichment program but the program will be sufficiently limited, with appropriate safeguards, to prevent Iran from actually developing nuclear weapons.

    (3) As insisted by the United States, Iran will eventually be convinced or coerced into accepting termination of its uranium enrichment program, either through the negotiations with the EU or after the issue is submitted to the UN.

    (4) Iran won't accept termination of its uranium enrichment program, whether through the process of these negotiations or through UN resolutions and sanctions, but its nuclear program will be severely disrupted or destroyed through military means.

    (5) Iran won't accept termination of its uranium enrichment program under this regime, whether through the process of these negotiations or through UN resolutions and sanctions, but its nuclear program will be severely disrupted or destroyed through regime change or other internal disruptions.
     
  2. 352klr

    352klr Member+

    Jan 29, 2001
    The Burgh of Edin
  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/551109.html
    BTW, I inadvertently voted for option 2. My vote in reality would be for option 1, although I admit it is a close call between several of them. In this regard, regretably, even the option hinted by 352klr is not entirely inconceivable at some point in the future. :(
     
  4. Ray Luca

    Ray Luca BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Feb 2, 2005
    6) Jews will feel threathened by Iiran, and they will bomball the Iranian Nuclear sites and that will end any peace between Palistians and the israel forever.

    Is number 6 possible?
     
  5. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    (6) Put Ray Luca on your ignore list.

    Whaddaya know! Number 6 IS possible!
     
  6. Mikeshi

    Mikeshi New Member

    Jul 14, 2004
    Jasper,Ga
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd give it even odds with your chances of becoming literate.
     
  7. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I'd say 1) or 6) -> WW3
     
  8. Alan S

    Alan S Member

    Jun 1, 2001
    Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Iran keeps its nuclear weapons program. The democracy advocates in Iran go on vacation, whining about any excuse they can find on why NOT to push for democracy in Iran always finding someone other than themselves to blame. The Iranian nuclear weapon expertise indirectly helps terrorist get nuclear weapons which they, gleefully use in a way to maximize civilian casualties they day after they get one.
     
  9. Ray Luca

    Ray Luca BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Feb 2, 2005
    If that should happen the american people will blame one of the countries that could have helped them proof or no proff and guess what will happen?
     
  10. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Arab terrorists smuggle a nuke into Israel, wipping out Tel Aviv. Israel assumes that "we will wipe Israel off the map" Iran is responsible and launches a massive nuclear strike against Iran. The Arabs take over the entire Middle East.
     
  11. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    Let's deal with each of the options in turn -- some of which are poorly phrased and incomplete.

    Option 1 is not an option: something will be done -- to what degree of success remains unclear -- if things travel down this path.

    Forget option 2 -- if the current regime continues uranium enrichment, they will build a bomb.

    Forget option 3 -- Well it certainly LOOKs like they won't agree to terminate their enrichment -- that's already viewed as an unacceptable concession on their part. But it's hard to tell whether the current stance is purely a negotiating ploy to get more carrots, or if it's an unbudgable debating positon. Given that, this option isn't helpful as a choice.

    Option 4 is weakly articulated: what is "sufficient?" There's no way we can obiterate it completely through military means, but can we delay the development timetable through military strikes?

    Option 5 is possible -- but it's an issue of timing. As such, this option is not helpful either.

    The final outcomes of the Iranian situation are not a series of discrete options as outlined in this poll, but rather a series of complex interlocking if-then statements. I won't go into them now.

    But I will say this on the military option. The groundwork has been laid to justify military action if a certain series of events occur. And we won't be doing so unilaterally, because the Europeans have agreed to the context in which this has been established.

    IF the mullahs reject the current overtures, and if, as a result, we get ineffective action on the part of the Security Council, then the exercise of LIMITED military actions (e.g., cruise missles) may occur to delay or impede progress toward Iran becoming a nuclear state. IF that happens, it could have negative consequences for the United State or...it could simply delay or impede Iran's progress toward a bomb.
     
  12. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Palestinians happily dance under the radioactive wind, dust and rain to congratulate the arab terrorists (palestinians? clever ones I add), most if not all of them are going to die soon but the zionist entity is gone.

    And as anyone knows any muslim wants to die the sooner possible there are those virgins waiting for them in heaven.

    Applauses will come also from the neighbouring countries (of both Israel and iran) who will follow carefully the weather reports, "Iraq - radioactive winds coming from the north today, the few who have a nuclear shelter just go there, the others... save yourself"
     
  13. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    LOL

    If only they suggest the possibility of any military involvment vs Iran me and some millions others are going to make them change their mind soon.

    The most you can get from the few european leaders who will, maybe, follow you in that path is "ok, do it, go, you have our (distant) blessing".

    Another war, a war vs iran (which means the USofA have to reintroduce the draft) is unconceivable for Europeans.
    It's craziness.

    I think you're misreading EU activity, for most of EU it is more to slow the neoimperial crazymen currently running your admin than else.

    Relax and enjoy Iran having the nukes as Pakistan or prepare yourself for WW3. Where Europe will remain quasi-neutral (because of your military bases in Europe).

    Why ppl should almost look back with regret at the cold war era because of a bunch of crazy neocons and their neoimperial dream...? it's absurd.
     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    There are several proposals and possibilities short of actual termination of Iran's enrichment program that the Europeans are willing to consider. I should add, incidentally, that I don't like any of them -- and prefer that these talks end with no agreement, with Iran resuming its full enrichment activities.

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_13-3-2005_pg7_41

     
  15. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    You misread, no doubt purposefully.

    Right now the Europeans have agree that the carrots we are providing the Iranians -- lifting sanctions and expedited WTO membership -- are acceptable in exchange for Iran agreeing not enrich uranium.

    So what happens if the Iranians give us the bird on this? And then Security Council sanctions aren't imposed?

    We say to Shroeder and Chirac..."look, we really appreciate you guys working with us, and trying to get these Mullahs to cooperate, but fact is, they simply aren't willing to bargain. So they've not only NOT agreed to our proposition, but we know in the past they've deceived and not lived up the the bargains they HAVE agreed to. So, we gotta start handing them some ultimatums."

    And you know what Jacquie boy is going to say? "C'est la vie" as we do what we think we need to to do.

    And you guys can take to the streets and jump up and down with all the placards you can color with Magic Marker. The jig will be up.
     
  16. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Chavez: Iran Has Right to Nuclear Program

    Iran has every right, like many other countries have done, to develop its atomic energy and continue its research in this field," Chavez said after top officials from both countries signed 20 cooperation agreements in areas from petrochemical projects to agriculture.

    (...)

    Speaking before Venezuela's congress, Khatami lamented "the injustice of the great powers that try to control the world." He said they include the United States and interfere "in other states under the precept of fighting terrorism and try to force all of humanity to follow their monopoly of power."

    "What must be condemned are calls for violence, whether from terrorists or from aggressors with yearnings for domination," Khatami said
     
  17. sch2383

    sch2383 New Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    Northern Virginia
    I don't see why the Iranians will keep up an enrichment program if they are not producing weapons grade material. This is about geopolitical power, not energy.
     
  18. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    What happens? If the security council sanctions aren't imposed it will because of some vetos. You used your veto to stop security council plenty of times.

    Are you having an erection? In front of Chirac and Schroeder...

    Good luck and enjoy WW3. Remember to be the first to enlist. Combat operations obviously, not in some office.

    Of course the EU countries won't succeed to stop you if you want war. This wasn't even in question..

    We guys will take care of our nation.

    Italian Government -> If only they suggest the possibility of any military involvment vs Iran me and some millions others are going to make them change their mind soon

    But I am sure they won't even try, even assuming the worst case scenario with Berlusconi still there.
     
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    sardar pardus,

    As you know, the US is right now under the control of folks bent on extending American hegemony on domination. Even though many European leaders realize this, I am not sure enough among them have the backbone to stand up to the US. The ones who made some effort to do so last time around, like Chirac, might not have the stomack for the repeat of the same thing now. I just hope the rest of the people in Europe are going to be as aware as you have shown, helping their leaders find the necessary backbone.

    In the meantime, the Project for a New American Century, and the Pax Americana it wants to introduce, will help the US discover new enemies as old ones fade. Eventually, once the immediate (Iran) and the intermediate (China, Russia) enemies are sidelined, new faces will emerge. Very likely those will be in found in the heart of Europe. The Europeans who resist American domination will be accused of being "crypto-communists" and "leftists", and the US will then set out to show them what real "democracy" is all about!

    Nor will this corruption of power only affect those outside of America's shores. Such corruption, if unchecked, will inevitably find such enemies at home as well. The US, which I once passionately defended against what I felt were unfair charges, will indeed become the very monster the carricatures from its "enemies" once projected. Indeed, it has already begun matching those carricatures to a large extent.
     
  20. 352klr

    352klr Member+

    Jan 29, 2001
    The Burgh of Edin
    This belongs on the conspiracy thread. Or in the trash bin. Either way, it's got the same level of intelligence as Frank Gore.
     
  21. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    It's our friend Sardinia...being consistent. :rolleyes:
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    That comment coming from an authority whose posts, including the first one on this thread, suggest he can't wait for the US to engage in nuclear holocaust. BTW, what will be the target of that nuclear detonation? Tehran?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  23. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    IM, it's sardus_pater :D

    http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20010618

    all the languages you mention are part of the Indo-European language family, an extensive family that includes all of the Germanic languages (including English); the Italic languages (including Latin and its descendants); ancient and modern Greek; the Slavic and Baltic languages; and the Indic and Iranian languages. All of these languages are called "cognate" languages because they derive from a common ancestor, and the individual words that are related are "cognates."

    Below is a list of cognates for father in various of these languages:
    father (Modern English)
    fader (Middle English)
    faeder (Old English; the ae is the short a sound in cat)
    fader (Swedish, Norwegian, and Danish)
    vader (Dutch)
    vater (German)
    pater (Latin)
    padre (Spanish, Italian)
    père (French)
    pai (Portugese; they use padre for 'priest')
    pater (Greek; the -ter is pronounced "tare" and the e should have a macron over it)
    pitar (Sanskrit)
    pita (Hindi; the a is pronounced like the a in part and should have a macron over it)


    I am not a father since I have no son

    "sardus pater" means

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuraghe
    The people that built them are supposed to have developed a mysterious civilization (some define it as the most accomplished civilisation in the Mediterranean area at its times) and is called "Nuragici people"; forms of art were discovered, mainly in the form of little statues in bronze called "bronzetto", typically representing the chief of the village ("Sardus pater") or hunting or fighting men, animals, more rarely women

    But it also was referred to the God of sardinians.
    http://www.sardegna.com/code/archeologia/id/158/LINGUA/EN

    The Punic-Roman Temple of Antas.

    [​IMG]

    It’s one of the most interesting archaeological remain of the island, about 10 Km far from Fluminimaggiore. Going through the mining unsurfaced road, the temple is just 2 Km far. Today it’s the result of numerous repairs (from 1967 to 1976) and of different accurate excavations of the site that gave back remarkable materials. The temple shows the tripartition typical of the Punic religious buildings, with an atrium and penetralia divided by an intermediate space.
    This structure has been partially modified by the Romans probably around the I century b. C., but all the typical features of the Punic temple have been maintained.
    The temple is posed over a basement with a flight of steps at the entrance. The pronaos has four big columns (tetrastyle) holding the architrave with the famous inscription: TEMP(lum) (SA)RDI PATRIS BAB(ai). The meaning is the Temple of the Sardus Pater Babai (Sardinian-Roman god derived from the Sardinian-Punic one called Sir Addir Babai) and it’s dedicated to the Caracalla Emperor.


    European ways to counter that will always be ambiguos and half-hidden.

    I find the idea that those opposing Iraq war, won't oppose a crazier war vs iran implausible though.

    EU still has not a single foreign voice, it's a process which has just begun, a problematic one, and it will take time.

    From a EU selfish POV US current foreign policy helps a lot EU and its integration process.

    Meanwhile US will continue to play the "dividi et impera" (ex. old europe and new europe rummy's idiocies).

    I think protests and rallies would be even bigger and tougher than those against the war in iraq.

    Well, nothing really surprises me anymore but I find the idea of a US-EU confrontation (other than the economic one) as highly unlikely and not only because both the populations won't accept it. It's unconceivable.

    Even if theoretically when the neocons talk about stopping any emerging world (or regional) power rivaling US power they refer also to EU.
     
  24. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    No it's Chavez and Khatami speaking as reported by AP.

    Khatami lamented "the injustice of the great powers that try to control the world." He said they include the United States and interfere "in other states under the precept of fighting terrorism and try to force all of humanity to follow their monopoly of power."

    Here Khatami hits the nail on the head.

    This is the crude truth freed of all the propagandistic embellishments.
     
  25. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    And it's you enjoying it very much, even though any sane European can see the danger of a nuclear armed mullahcracy.

    http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030625-115341-7125r.htm
     

Share This Page