2011/2012 All Rocks Pre-Organizing Thread

Discussion in 'Games & Fantasy' started by tarvinodos, Apr 29, 2011.

  1. DrHeckle

    DrHeckle BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 12, 2010
    Cairns
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Excellent, thanks for clearing that up. I definitely do not want Dust circa 2011-2012 to be Spinters revisited:eek: so I will not be chasing any of the 6 other Splinters to join ,so it will just be Mahna Mahna and Koozbanian. If FC Yankees is indeed going to be in Dust hopefully he will be revitalized.
     
  2. tarvinodos

    tarvinodos Member+

    Jul 17, 2008
    Long Beach, CA
    Definately will be a Cannon Twist next year. We should just vote for the competition or suggest a new one.

    Blech, Hal and Dr. Heckle kept up on their cups and were all good but I don't know if they fit the twist. Thanks to Blech the Golden Boot looks well set up for next year. One of the three I ran this year could be tossed if they seem irrelevant. Fantasy Olympics which I actually won is a bit dear now to me. Rock Hard is problematic with the Spring Cup winner always seeming to win everything. The Golden Boot has its own internal problems such as long rounds at the front end and my ranking system didn't seem to work.

    So I don't know which Cup should count for the Cannon Twist. Maybe a new comp?
     
  3. United Forever

    Apr 16, 2004
    Barbados
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Barbados
    I have seen that I have not been invited back to participate in next year's competition. Fully understand since I have done nothing this season. Between flying and school, really don't have time plus I don't see games that are not my team's that much now anyway. I apologize for my lack of effort this season. All the best for the guys carrying on.
     
  4. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    I'm planning to return next season. No info has changed; Tarv, please pm me if you don't still have it from last year.

    FWIW, I like 8 as the number of teams and wouldn't adjust it. More teams would get really thin with there only being 20 starting goalkeepers each week (fewer if some teams don't play). Rather than expanding the teams in Dust, I would be inclined to reduce them, but would allow it to be driven by the numbers. We could draw the line at 8 but go with as few as 6, but then could also entertain two divions of 6 if we could get to 12 teams. In the hierarchy of Rocks divisions, these divisions could be on the same level, i.e., Dust A and Dust B, with both feeding into Sand based on the number of openings (the top team in each and then the team with the next highest points and so on). If we get to the point where we're 32 strong, we could then recommit to 8 in Dust and then return to "Splinters" or another name as the expansion group, but as a practical matter, we haven't yet succeeded in getting 4 fully active divisions.

    Re the twist, I think Cannon's brainstorming is an interesting idea, although I might award more points to allow it to potentially have a greater impact. A bonus 50 to 100 points for the winner of each of three or four selected competitions could potentially shift a position or two if won by a third or fourth place team or by a 7th place team. A diverse foursome would be the Rockhard Challenge Cup (head-to-head), the BE-Cup (eliminator), the Golden Boot (goals), and a revival of the TESCO (defense). (I love the Rothman but wonder if it would be a good inclusion for Twist purposes since it's almost certain to be won by a very strong team, with the same going for the Rotisserie). Personally, I like the notion that we stick to 2 up and 2 down in each division, as this is already means that there is little continuity as half of each division is changing each season and I don't like the idea that a 6th place team might get relegated to make room for a Twist winner. But, it's no biggie to me either way and the reality is that it's not likely that the Twist will come into play on any regular basis as odds remain that Cups will be won by the stronger teams.


    Re the Google docs, I'm still biting my tongue in order to allow the discussion to go whereever it's going to go, and note that it's been over a week and I've yet to post a word on the topic. ;)
     
  5. Hal

    Hal Member+

    Sep 9, 1999
    I will admit I almost gave FC Yankees the dreaded ORANGE rating, (like I did for Animal Hotspur who had 17 trades but had the team on autosub the last part of the season), that would require recommendation from the other active members in its league. Even though FC Yankees' transfers were a low number, I also looked at whether or not the manager was actively changing his/her starting line-up and starting captain, not just relying on the autosub feature, This indicated that the manager was still paying attention to the team. Of the 8 transfers, 6 were during the second half of the season, GW 24, 26, and 30. Anyway, I will admit being on the fence. The issue may be moot, since FC Yankees has not even indicated an interest in playing next season. It would not be unreasonable to ask FC Yankees for a firm commitment to step up the activity next season and re-commit to stay active the entire year.
     
  6. DrHeckle

    DrHeckle BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 12, 2010
    Cairns
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Excellent, that makes perfect sense, I did not look that much into it and this was exactly why I raised the question. Making trades is one thing but just leaving your team "as is" is another, especially when it means leaving "doublegamers" on the bench, same captain all year etc like the majority of Splinters were doing. So the decision remains as before, I will not be endorsing any of the Splinters for 2011-2012 except Koozbanian. Speaking of, both myself and Koozbanian will be changing our Team names... we had a Muppet theme going in Splinters... my idea... probably a bad one... and more definitely than probably a result of too many reds... . I will be changing mine to "Bigger Boat" named after my favourite movie line ever.. Koozbanian will no doubt choose something lame... not that there is anything wrong with that:D. We will update Tarv in due course.

    My first and final 2 cents on the 'Cannon Twist"... I applaud the thinking and imagination of Cannon suggesting extra points for the Cups but think that could really throw things out of whack a bit. Each cup has it's own personality and prestige and takes various skills to master.. as Blech says, one is "Head to Head, another is Goals/ Assists; another lowest score is eliminated etc and by winning one comp should not give you "points" in another.That is like Man City getting 6 competition points for winning FA Cup or Birmingham getting a few for winning Carling Cup etc. It threatens the integrity and I guess refreshingly simplistic system of the leagues... first past the post wins. Plus apart from being very hard to keep track of, it has the potential to make "the rich richer".

    In saying that I agree that there should be a twist, but at best only an extra promotion spot to a) the winner of a designated comp (I agree definitely not the Rothman's Medal...as Cannon pointed out the BP judging system is very flawed... which is fun to have fun with in my Medal Updates but should in no way affect anyone's relegation/promotion).. or b) the best performer overall based on a points system spread over all or a selection of the offshoot comps, for example,winning the Eliminator cup gets you 5 points, 2nd gets you 2... winning the Boot, 5 pts etc etc. Team with the most points gained form the offshoots gets the Cannon Twist.
     
  7. ibreak4coffee

    ibreak4coffee Member

    Jul 27, 2004
    New York
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Guys - if you are changing your names, can you PM me when you do? This is so I can keep a master list of all participants with recorded team names. I've done this up to last season, and obviously when I get around to doing a website I want to have a page where we list all present and past teams with all their titles :)
     
  8. kopiteinkc

    kopiteinkc Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    Shawnee
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I disagree that there should be any form of Cannon Twist myself. Is this decision made or should it be worth more discussion?
     
  9. ibreak4coffee

    ibreak4coffee Member

    Jul 27, 2004
    New York
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    If there is a Cannon Twist, I would say it should be the Rock Hard Championship Cup and we should try and move back to the old season long format.
     
  10. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    I'm going to jump on board with Mark on this one.

    There are so many cup comps now that the very idea of trying to find a fitting avenue for the twist to have meaning is getting diluted, not to mention problematic.

    We have grown enormously over the years and as a direct result so have some of our rules and our ways of doing things.
    We take all players' opinions and hash out the merits and faults in open debate and vote on issues where the former outweighs the latter.

    I imagine we will continue to grow in all these areas, however, we should also be mindful of what the great man said..."keep it simple stupid".

    Each new season the debate is centered around the "twist" and what format, if any, it should take.

    My opinion.
    We have an enormous amount of cups now, yet one league system.
    Keep it simple...You finish in the bottom two, you're relegated::You finish in the top two, you're promoted.
    Period.
     
  11. Hal

    Hal Member+

    Sep 9, 1999
    My two cents on a variety of issues:

    I thought it might be interesting to see how many "Views" there were of the various tournament threads. It may or may not indicate a perceived interest or value of the tournament. This is not to dimish the effort the tournament directors put into running these competitions.

    # Views - Tournamet

    10102 - Golden Boot
    7154 - Masters
    6286 - Rothman's Medal
    6438 - Rock Hard Championship
    4876 - Fantasy Olympics
    4683 - Blech's Eliminator Cup
    4571 - Rotisseire Shield
    3134 - Double Eliminator Cup

    With the large disparity in number of views between the Rotisseire Shield and the Masters season long tournaments I ran, I have decided to only conduct the Masters tournament next season.

    I was shocked that my favorite tournament, the DE Cup, had so few views. I guess once a manager was eliminated, he/she no longer monitored the continuation of the competition.

    As for the Cannon Twist, I'm against it. I like the two up and two down for promotion/relegation. There are enough other opportunities for teams in Dust and Sand to also move up to the next higher league due to vacancies from retiring or inactive members.

    I think we should still shoot for 4 leagues.

    I support continuing with 8 teams per league.

    I actually have become a fan of Google Docs to help me be more efficient in my research before I swoop for a "free agent" player. That said, I don't just look at Google Docs, but also at the last two Transfer Threads in the league FPL forum. I still like the League Forum, with it's date/time stamp to settle disputes over player acquisition conflicts, as the official place to post the transfer. I also don't mind updating Google docs when other managers request that in either the league transfer forum or in his league's in season BigSoccer thread.

    I am open to suggestions on how to formalize the "inactivity" determination that I've been doing at the end of the season. Up until this season, it's been pretty cut and dried with just a few inactive managers. But I don't need to put myself as the sole arbiter of whether others merit return invitations. The process I used has evolved into the following:

    1) I click on the transfer history of the team to see how many and when the managers made transfers. One needs to look at the transfer history, because the wild card transfers don't appear in the totals on the main summary page for a team. Obvious red flags were just a few transfers or transfers that ceased before the January transfer window.

    2) I click on the GW 38 score for a team; take note of the bench players and captain and whether anyone had been subbed in that week. Then I click on GW37 and see if the bench and captain were the same, noting if the only difference was auto sub or auto captain switch. I repeat this process until I'm satisfied there was management attention to the team or until I get down to somewhere between GW25 and 30. Real inactive managers can clearly be determined by this process. If it looked like the manager had long periods of activity with some prolonged absences, and I don't have a number, I would color that team/manager as "Orange" and request endorsements from the active managers in the same league as to whether to invite that manager back.

    3) In prior years, I also peeked at the in-season banter threads for suspect managers to see whether or not they were actively posting and showing their continued interest that way.

    4) Another possible process is to just ask the two promoted managers from a league (usually they are very active), whether or not they would recommend that a team/manager not be invited back the following season due to inactivity. I wouldn't define the criteria, but just let the two promoted managers use their common sense.

    5) A couple of seasons we had a team go inactive shortly after the draft. We recruited a back-up manager from someone who wanted to join that season, but the leagues were full, and asked him to take over the inactive manager's drafted team. The new manager could use his first wildcard to completely revamp his team from the available player pool. We might even freeze the pool for a day until he had revamped his team. As this was almost a forced use of the wildcard, we would accept the replacement manager's use of a "virtual" wildcard and keep a manually adjusted GW score for that week's cup competitions and a manually adjusted table standing each week to add back in the points deducted for excess transfers for the"virtual" wildcard.
     
  12. Morrison8312

    Morrison8312 Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I totally agree with this. If it ain't broke don't fix it...
     
  13. Eddie26

    Eddie26 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 23, 2004
    Pittsadelphia
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Pittsadelphia will be back, same contact info but family will be +1 larger in November so apologies if I go MIA for that month!
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. kopiteinkc

    kopiteinkc Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    Shawnee
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    No excuses I made draft picks from Labour and Delivery last July :D
     
  15. Eddie26

    Eddie26 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 23, 2004
    Pittsadelphia
    Club:
    Chelsea FC

    You are Scouse though, you're infinitely tougher than me. I don't have the balls! He/she does own a Phladelphia Union and Chelsea shirts already!
     
  16. Dear_Claudio

    Dear_Claudio Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Buffalo, New York
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I will be back, and with 4 years of college finally behind me I'll be able to devote much more time toward a season-long effort to get into VSR. I must admit that many times I didn't change my team because of, ahem, extracurricular activities occurring on Fridays:D

    I'll be selecting a new team name eventually, since I don't think Zhirkov will be with Chelsea come September. I also don't think I'll be targetting Lampard with the #1 overall pick this time around:(
     
  17. 1800-WorldCup

    1800-WorldCup Read Nomadic Gatherings - TravelNotes.org/magun

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Aug 5, 2001
    Europe
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The 1800-UK.com manager has announced that rather than bid on the headband this time around, he'll just have one tatooed on his forehead.

    :D
     
  18. tarvinodos

    tarvinodos Member+

    Jul 17, 2008
    Long Beach, CA
    Will Check in the week of the 20th of July. Right now we have 3 leagues. Unless we have new managers for Dust, we could expand Sand to more teams (say 10) or Sand and Dust could have less teams each.

    Small Rocks 2011-2012 (Need 4 more managers to confirm)

    1 Rockville Gunners Chuck Cannon 33 1976 Confirmed
    2 LSG NW3 Doug Neidermeyer 54 1927
    3 VegasVirgins Craig Powell 56 1796 Confirmed
    4 FC Springfield Coach Wiggum 34 1750 Confirmed
    5 blechs dawgs Blech Blech 48 1698 Confirmed
    6 Glorydaze fC Paul Richards 46 1689 Confirmed
    -------------------Promoted from Very Small Rocks
    7 ColdDogSoup FC Lobo Mojo 49 1931 Confirmed
    8 Sasha Juniors Thomas Johnson 69 1823 Confirmed



    Very Small Rocks 2011-2012 (Need one more manager to confirm)

    1 1800-UK.com Harry Hotspur 29 1720 Comfirmed
    2 Pittsadelphia Eddie Batcho 22 1702 Confirmed
    3 Pork Soda Richard Powell 29 1672 Comfirmed
    4 ThiKu Mariners Kurt Thiessen 46 1663 Confirmed
    --------------Relegated from Small Rocks to VSR
    5 In off the post Clan Blue 29 1635 Comfirmed
    6 Aviators Sir Grandpa Hal 28 1571 (1578-7) Comfirmed
    ---------Promoted from Sand to VSR
    7 FC St. Pauli Scott King 38 1907 Comfirmed
    8 FC Touchline Ban E Sullivan 45 1789 Comfirmed

    Sand 2011-2012 (Need 3 managers to confirm, including one manager to receive recommendation from FC St. Pauli and FC Touchline Ban)

    1 Zhirkov 1 More Time Ryan Gorman 47 1719 Confirmed
    2 Yellowcake Phantoms Jay Jones 44 1708
    3 ? Lees Summit Rangers Mike Kuhn 36 1546
    ------------Relegated from VSR to Sand
    4 Kopite Juniors Chloe Adams 40 1596 Confirmed
    -------------Promoted from Dust to VSR
    5 FC Weymouth Ryan Morrison 43 1814 Confirmed
    6 Dynamo Teso Mike Wilson 37 1811 Confirmed
    ----------From Dust due to retiring or release of inactive managers
    7 ChrisSuttonsSlippers Fraser McInnes 62 1788 (1794-6) Confirmed
    8 Top_Shelf Dave Thomas 30 1667 Confirmed

    Dust 2011-2012 (Need 2 managers to confirm, including one manager to receive recommendation from Mahna Mahna FC and Koozbanian Spoobol U. Currently have 4 openings in Dust League for 2011-12.)

    1 FC Yankees Cristian Tane 28 1632
    ---------Active Splinter League Managers
    2 Mahna Mahna FC Paul O'Connor 58 1947 Confirmed
    3 Koozbanian Spoobol U Liam Hall 32 1689 Confirmed
    4 ? Animal Hotspur Dennis O'Connor 31 1596
    5. Check in interest thread
    6. Check in interest thread
    7. Check in interest thread
    8. Check in interest thread
     
  19. Dear_Claudio

    Dear_Claudio Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Buffalo, New York
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I don't think it's really fair to Sand managers, especially the ones that have been active players over past years, to have to play in a 10-team league. The 8-team system is the best set-up in terms of available players, team depth, draft time, draft fairness, etc.

    IMO there are enough knowledgeable and active users around BigSoccer that play the official fantasy game to fill out Dust. Perhaps there needs to be more of a vetting period as opposed to the standing 'first come, first serve' system. After all, what has plagued Dust is that new managers are only interested in the novelty of drafting a Premier League fantasy team and then don't bother with their team once they aren't in first place after the first week or month.

    I'm sure everyone who posts a team-centric board has a fantasy league for that forum. Find out who the active participators are in those leagues and invite them to this unique, entertaining and competitive fantasy experience :)
     
  20. bettermirror

    bettermirror Member

    Jul 17, 2008
    Fraser Valley
  21. Dear_Claudio

    Dear_Claudio Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Buffalo, New York
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I've contacted a person from the Chelsea forum who finished 2nd in our league and made 60 transfers last season. He appears to be an avid fantasy player who could be an asset to All Rocks... but where exactly is the interest thread? Maybe my eyesight is failing me but I don't see it anywhere.
     
  22. tarvinodos

    tarvinodos Member+

    Jul 17, 2008
    Long Beach, CA
    Post here. I don't even know where all of that cutting and pasting started.

    Have them send me a PM with email, big soccer name, real name, All Rocks team name.
     
  23. Ingromius

    Ingromius Member

    Feb 3, 2000
    NW London
    Have I not confirmed? I'm definitely back for another year!
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. tarvinodos

    tarvinodos Member+

    Jul 17, 2008
    Long Beach, CA
    Those Interested in Dust can post here....Animal Hotspur I don't believe posted yet. About 5 openings in Dust. 2 have not confirmed for Sand....


    Small Rocks 2011-2012

    1 Rockville Gunners Chuck Cannon 33 1976 Confirmed
    2 LSG NW3 Doug Neidermeyer 54 1927 Confirmed
    3 VegasVirgins Craig Powell 56 1796 Confirmed
    4 FC Springfield Coach Wiggum 34 1750 Confirmed
    5 blechs dawgs Blech Blech 48 1698 Confirmed
    6 Glorydaze fC Paul Richards 46 1689 Confirmed
    -------------------Promoted from Very Small Rocks
    7 ColdDogSoup FC Lobo Mojo 49 1931 Confirmed
    8 Sasha Juniors Thomas Johnson 69 1823 Confirmed



    Very Small Rocks 2011-2012

    1 1800-UK.com Harry Hotspur 29 1720 Comfirmed
    2 Pittsadelphia Eddie Batcho 22 1702 Confirmed
    3 Pork Soda Richard Powell 29 1672 Comfirmed
    4 ThiKu Mariners Kurt Thiessen 46 1663 Confirmed
    --------------Relegated from Small Rocks to VSR
    5 In off the post Clan Blue 29 1635 Comfirmed
    6 Aviators Sir Grandpa Hal 28 1571 (1578-7) Comfirmed
    ---------Promoted from Sand to VSR
    7 FC St. Pauli Scott King 38 1907 Comfirmed
    8 FC Touchline Ban E Sullivan 45 1789 Comfirmed

    Sand 2011-2012 (Need 2 managers to confirm)

    1 Zhirkov 1 More Time Ryan Gorman 47 1719 Confirmed
    2 Yellowcake Phantoms Jay Jones 44 1708
    3 ? Lees Summit Rangers Mike Kuhn 36 1546
    ------------Relegated from VSR to Sand
    4 Kopite Juniors Chloe Adams 40 1596 Confirmed
    -------------Promoted from Dust to VSR
    5 FC Weymouth Ryan Morrison 43 1814 Confirmed
    6 Dynamo Teso Mike Wilson 37 1811 Confirmed
    ----------From Dust due to retiring or release of inactive managers
    7 ChrisSuttonsSlippers Fraser McInnes 62 1788 (1794-6) Confirmed
    8 Top_Shelf Dave Thomas 30 1667 Confirmed

    Dust 2011-2012 (Currently have 5 openings in Dust League for 2011-12.)

    1 FC Yankees Cristian Tane 28 1632
    ---------Active Splinter League Managers
    2 Mahna Mahna FC Paul O'Connor 58 1947 Confirmed
    3 Koozbanian Spoobol U Liam Hall 32 1689 Confirmed
    4. Open
    5. Open
    6. Open
    7. Open
    8. Open
     
  25. DoctorJones24

    DoctorJones24 Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    OH
    I'm in.

    (Yellowcake - Sand League)
     

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