The A-League Expansion Thread

What about Wollongong and Geelong who are working on their bids already?

Also, Christchurch looks very perspective as the possible NZ site. Phoenix are going to play there again this season and if big crowd appears again this may be an argument for expansion.

Maybe Kiwis have to join the AFC too?

 

There is an argument in football circles that the AFC are dudding us wrt number of slots in the ACL because we have a kiwi team in our league. If the Kiwi's were to join the AFC, then this would no longer be a problem and I'd love to see Auckland, Welly and Christchurch all represented in the A-League in the future (the future that involves OFC being absorbed by the AFC and the AFC being split between West Asia and East Asia) I'd be happy to stop expansion at 12 once rovers are in and let the league bed down for a season or two before even thinking about team 13 and 14. Expansion too fast is one of the reasons the NASL in the USA fell flat on its face..others being over spending(not really a problem in our league - thanks to the salary cap) and lack of grassroots support( also not really a problem here as football long ago established itself as the no1 participation sport in Australia(and we only count registered players unlike ALF who seem to count heads, legs and hands if a child even witnessed an Auskick clinic taking place at their school

 

Actually, Australia should have had three places in the ACL – but they have issued the special rule about "no more than 1/3 of number of teams in the league can participate". Now A-League have eleven teams so I think next ACL will feature three aussie clubs.

 

bad news for the central coast ladies team. I also heard that Melbourne heart were supposed to field a youth team. this hasn't happened though because the y-league draw came out the other week and heart wasn't included. I wonder why the FFA are reluctant to field a wellington side when they have expressed interests in taking part in the competition?

 

The cost of youth teams travelling to NZ?

 

Is there any money from AFC youth development programs involved? If yes, this may be the reason for Phoenix non-admission.

 

In a flash of genius, i have had an idea that is on a par with the discovery of penicilin

Let's, for argument sake that expansion of the A League stops at 14 and the last club to enter came into the league in time for the 2013-2014 season, you would have (as an example)

1. Adelaide United
2. Brisbane Roar
3. Central Coast
4. Gold Coast
5. Melb Heart
6. Melb Vic
7. Newcastle
8. North Qld
9. Sydney FC
10.Sydney Rovers
11. Perth Glory
12. Wellington
-----------------
13. Canberra
14. Illawarra

The 2 new teams ar just expamles, now to come into line with AFC requirements, FFA need pro/rel, so instead of creating new teams for a second teir , why not look to the past, the state leagues?
While i can see the worry would be a "return to the dark days" and State team wishing to be considered for the new second teir would have to meet a number of requirements put forward by FFA.
At the end of the 2013-2014 season, the highest placed team in each State League (making 9) plus the second best overall team (10) that have applied and fulfill the critera are promoted to the new second teir.

Feel free to pick at it, it's only a rough idea but could work.

 

Hard to believe there is still talk of expansion when Gold Coast can only draw 2000 people and North Qld around 5-6000.

HOw many times does football in Aust need to learn the same lessons???

 

I don't think rovers will play next season...If this is the case, then I seriously suggest the FFA get stuck in to promoting the heck out of the 11 team A-League post haste!. NASL in seppo-land died for many reasons, but rampant over-expansion without the new clubs/franchises expanding the value of the league was a prime factor(sounds like GCU to me) I feel if NQ follow the CCM model they could build a solid little club in Townsville, but I think the federal parliament needs to hurry up and debate the voluntary Euthanasia laws to put GCU out of its misery sooner rather than later. seriously apart from the big splash at the outset by signing Smeltz(gone) and Culina(below par IMO) what have they brought to the league besides embarrassment at the sheer irrelevance on the Aussie sports landscape. Honestly, everytime Fox news reports that the A-League set s new record low on Australian soil, it is another nail in the coffin of the sport here, it creates the perception that the league is dying everytime it is broadcast

 

That's pretty much how J. League expansion has worked in almost its entire lifetime.

I would go into a massive rant about how expansion here has gone wrong, is going wrong and will go wrong and how it should have worked, should be working and should be changed to work, but I only have 30 minutes left at work. You've all been saved by the [figurative] bell.

 

Another major issue was using giant NFL and college football stadia without having access to key game day revenue streams. That placed the break even point at an unattainably high level in most cities despite there being a level of spectator interest that could potentially have sustained a pro league if a more realistic economic model had been used. As an outsider looking in it appears to me that the A league actually undid some of the positive aspects of the NSL in that regard.

Axing the ethnic clubs in Sydney and Melbourne meant moving out of a number of stadia built for and controlled by soccer. Teams like South Melbourne, the Melbourne Knights, Sydney Marconi, United and Olympic may have had limited appeal to a mainstream demographic but at least they always seemed to be able to hang in there financially season after season as filler content to complement one franchise one city teams like the Perth Glory and Adelaide United. Not looking good right now for Newcastle, North Queensland and Gold Coast being able to do the same and if they fall by the wayside can the league survive?

 

I knew i'd stole the idea from somewhere! The FFA could do a lot worse than looking towards Japan though.

 

+1, there's a great article in this monthe 442Oz, in part it quotes the seminal work Two Hands.."If you're going trough some shit in your life, chances are somebody else has gone throught the same thing before you. And they've written about it" it then urges the FFA to learn the lessons from MLS(and of course the most successful league in AFC, the J.League!), such as building smaller stadiums where the football team is the primary tennant - and thus controls the revenue streams...for all the great views in it..Hindmarsh Stadium is the perfect size for United IMHO (It could do with more corporate facilities - i believe Bianco puled out not only because the GFC cruelled his business here in ADL - but making the AFC champsLge final and there just weren't enough revenue streams [limited corporate boxes - all prize money to FFA] for the club opened his eyes to the futility of club ownership in Australia) as I understand it, if I spend $5 on a beer, $3.50 goes to the Dept of Rec&Sport in SA not the club.

 

You also have to take into consideration that the Government - the owners and caretakers of the stadium - also contract all the facility staff, which includes bar and cafeteria staff. I'm not defending them, because I know how terribly they run the stadium from first hand experience (having worked alongside the club for quite some time) and knowing what it's like to work in/for the Government of South Australia, but a lot of the money they keep goes into upkeep and hiring staff. Granted, if it was owned by the club itself, they could sell/run/charge however much they like and get the balance right, but it wouldn't make a great deal of difference; they would still have to buy the/a stadium in the first place, which would put them under massive financial stress.

Same applies to most clubs out there: Unless the stadiums were actually donated to the clubs, there's no way it's a viable option.

Adelaide United FC is the primary tennant of Hindmarsh, with FFSA being the only other long-term tennant (though there is regular rugby training and the odd game as well, I'll concede). The J. League example of this doesn't work; it's not even the same case, nor did 4-4-2 even get the J. League's situation correct. It's doubtful they've done a great deal of research on the matter.

 

My 2 cents.

Scrap Fury and Phoenix, they are too far away to travel, Perth is along enough road trip, so keep it to just that one.
Also Gold Coast are probably a drain on A League finances, and the embarrassing 2,000 crowds.

So as I put on my flameproof suit for the attack that is about to come, the ALeague comp I would prefer, to see less travelling distances for the teams, and teams in places where soccer is more popular, not just filling in dots on the map, would be-

1. Adelaide United.

2. Brisbane Roar. ( good team, but name made up by marketing fools, hoping to play off the Brisbane Lions)

3. Canberra Cosmos. (Easier place to travel too, more central, and would have to get better crowds than Fury or Gold Coast)

4. Central Coast Mariners.( What happenned to their support? They used to pull in over 10,000 all the time, now they are at the top as usual but bad crowds now, for a team that regularly performs.)

5. Melbourne Heart. ( get rid of the red shorts, change to black, everything else ok but.)

6. Melbourne Victory.

7. Newcastle Jets.

8. Perth Glory. ( Lets keep the long road trips down to just this one.)

9. Sydney FC.

10. Tasmania team. (Tasmania deserves some recognition, they have a team in the cricket so why not have one in football as well, they have roughly the same population as Newcastle and the Hunter.)

11. West Sydney team. (Has to happen sooner or later, the ease in which Melbourne got 2 teams up and running, as compared to the usual Sydney shambles at everything, is a true reflection of the wide gulf that exists between the two states comparing sports administration, common sense, know how and business savvy.)

12. Wollongong Wolves. (The Illawarra region deserves a true national sporting team of their own, not just a merger, it is a traditional strong junior soccer area as well, and the wolves would pull better crowds than Gold Coast or North QLD.)

 

BigSoccer newbie... you do realise it's a shorter distance to travel to Wellington than it is to travel to Perth, right?

Didn't think so.

 

Really, oh wow thanks for the geography tip scoop.

And thanks for your wonderful warm bitchy little welcome.

 

Depends on where you start from

(and I think the point he was making was that if we are going to have only one long trip, it should be within Australia)

 

I don't think we should be cutting any teams from the comp unless they are up sh*t creek financially and can't keep going themselves.

The Gold Coast is too big a market to cut from the league. If they find someone other than Clive, or Clive realises what a tool he's been they can be a success. If the Fury can't dish up the cash then by all means, cut them. The FFA can't keep them alive for any longer. As for Wellington I think it would be well worth keeping them around. I could see another NZ team or two coming into the league down the track. If that does happen a team could fly over to NZ for a week or so and do a tour and play all 2/3 teams like they used to have with the Super Rugby.

I agree that Canberra, Wollongong and Western Sydney should all get teams ASAP. I'm still skepo about Tasmania but It'd be worth a shot (foundation A2-League team maybe?)

 

I think one of the big problems with the Gold Coast is that the fans aren't even clear about the problem. Some say they've been treated poorly by the club, some say it's because there's no advertising and nobody knows when it's on, while others complain about the cost of games. It's always only one of those things.

 

Exactly, we dont need the kiwis, ALeague should be just Australia.

 

Id prefer just Aussie teams myself, its hard to run a national comp with such huge travelling distance, hence cut the New Zealand and Nth Qld out of it, with just one long one to Perth.
Theres no reason why Tasmania couldnt come straight in, they have as many people down there now as the Hunter valley and Newcastle areas.

 

Is it true you can only get public transport to the stadium?