The 2010 Table - Magic Numbers, Tragic Numbers & Other Numerical Arcana of Dubious Value [R]

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Knave, Sep 13, 2010.

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  1. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, two of those five teams missed the playoffs last year, and one just squeaked into the last playoff spot. LA missed the playoffs the previous year, Beckham, Donovan and all. Columbus and Salt Lake missed the year before that. So the longest playoff dynasty in your sample, assuming all five make this year's playoffs, will be three years each for CMB and RSL. That's parity.

    I could easily see one or two or even three of these five teams hitting speed bumps next year. All it would take for LA, for example, would be having a good but not spectacular start to next season, then a second half like the one they are actually having this year (14 points in their last 13 games). All it would take for Columbus might be their leading goal-and-assist man (with a hand in 15 of their goals) having a drop-off between 37 and 38 years old. And so on.
     
  2. equus

    equus Member

    Jan 6, 2007
    Well done, Knave!
     
  3. The Cadaver

    The Cadaver It's very quiet here.

    Oct 24, 2000
    La Cañada, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    got you covered
     
  4. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Disagree 100%. To me, "parity" means that no teams enjoy permanent or semi-permanent status at any part of the table. FCD and RSL and LA were garbage two or three years ago. Now, they're three out of the top four teams. Conversely, where were DCU and Houston three years ago?

    In my mind, "parity" means equal opportunities, which more or less exist in MLS, not equal results, which you seem to imply. And because you do have equal opportunities (more or less) and resources (more or less), you're going to have much greater mobility between the classes, both up and down, which IMHO is a good thing.

    But parity isn't dead in MLS. In fact, you can say that it's never been more alive.
     
  5. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I think you two are making the same point, and I understand what you're saying. But what you two are talking about I would call "mobility" -- in the same way one talks about social or class mobility. (And ElJefe actually says that.) MLS remains a mobile league. There are no permanent dynasties, clubs can turn things around over a season or two, and clubs can fall apart even more quickly. But that's mobility: the club hierarchy can change radically over the seasons and it does change radically.

    I don't believe that's what parity means. Parity is perhaps best understood in view of the old NFL line/myth/ideal about "any given Sunday" -- on any given Sunday, either team can win any given game. That's got nothing to do with mobility from one season to the next. It's about the equality of teams at any given moment (as opposed to over time or seasons).

    Anyway, it's very easy to measure the parity or disparity of MLS teams. Just look at the PPG throughout the seasons and check the standard deviation. Which is what I did. There have been seasons with greater disparity than 2010. But not in the last few years, and hence not in what you might call the modern era of MLS.

    [​IMG]

    (Full size)

    Edit ... one note on 2005. Take out the expansion teams, RLS and Chivas, and the standard deviation plummets to .24. Do that and 2010 has the greatest disparity since 2001.
     
  6. jeffmefun

    jeffmefun Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Quakeland, CA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Knave - based on strength of remaining schedule, what are your thoughts on SJE finishing ahead of NYRB? That's where my money is right now. SJ's toughest remaining games are the middle of the pack Chicago on the road and KC at home. NYRB faces DAL, RSL, LAG, and KC (just to keep the SJ/NY comparison alive).

    Also, have you considered looking at PPG on a per-opponent basis. For example, if Seattle plays KC on the road, should you compare KC's HPPG or Seattle's opponent's PPG when they are on the road? And, vice versa. A generic HPPG / RPPG approach might mask when you're playing a particularly good or bad road team or a particularly good or bad home team.

    My stats this way indicate KC's going to have a hard time (or Seattle will have to take a hard slide) to make the playoffs. Then again... maybe my spreadsheet is run by a homer!
     
  7. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
  8. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SJ is also playing Columbus in Columbus -- that's the toughest game on their schedule by far. Also, the games are Chicago at home and KC on the road.
     
  9. jeffmefun

    jeffmefun Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Quakeland, CA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ha! Good catches - thanks. Clearly, I was moving too quickly. I still stand by my assertion, however, that SJ will give NYRB a run for their money down the stretch and will definitely well ahead of Colorado (which has a very difficult remaining schedule - RSLx2, DAL, LAG). Colorado needs to be NE at home this weekend, or it could be a tough ride.
     
  10. Golazo

    Golazo Member+

    Apr 15, 1999
    Decatur, GA USA
    Years and years from now some bright young thing will do some research into the correlation between MLS fanhood and fascination... nay orgasmic reverence for... statistical arcanae.

    Said correlation will be high.

    (In a side note, Golazo Jr.'s preschool teacher is reporting the lad seems to have a facility for numerical concepts.... AND he has a lively left foot.)
     
  11. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    If you stick to the "40 points gets you in" mantra (which will likely be true again this year), Colorado is in decent shape. They have home games against NE, Philly, DC, and RSL. If they can't get 6 points out of those games (particularly against those first three teams), they don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

    Otherwise, they're away to RSL, DAL, and LAG. Draws against any of them would help the Rapids tremendously.

    Kansas City has the most room to maneuver, with games against Seattle and San Jose in October. Those games are going to be crucial - assuming, of course, they don't crash and burn beforehand.

    Edit: Thanks Knave for doing this! I'm doing this on my own spreadsheet as well, though I'm not nearly as eloquent as you are in terms of putting it into words.

    On another note - I believe Dallas needs 3 ties in their remaining games to set an all-time record for ties in a season. From what I gathered on MLS's website, even including the shootout ties, the record is 13 ties in a season, which is shared by several teams. Dallas has a great opportunity to break - hell, shatter - that record.
     
  12. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    BTW, I think DC is already technically eliminated. The problem with the tragic number is that it doesn't take into account other games. Even if DC were to go on an amazing run and finish with 36 points, I don't think there is a possible set of results in all the other games that would get them in.
     
  13. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I've got no idea because I really haven't looked into the strength of schedule matter at all. For that sort of stuff I've actually always gone to Jeff Sagarin's page over here. And, actually, MLS just posted an article on the strength of schedule, which you can find here. A cursory look at MLS's numbers would suggest there's a decent chance SJE tops NYR by the end of the season.
    I have not. Might be interesting, but I'd be cautious about reading too much predictive merit into these numbers, especially at the sort of granular level you're talking about.
    40 points gets you to the threshold, which ain't necessarily the same thing as getting you through the threshold. Just ask Colorado (and DC) about ending the 2009 season at 40 points and still missing out on the playoffs (they lost the tiebreaker for the last spot to a 40 point RSL).
    I'm going to ignore this post so I don't have to figure out if you're right.

    :D
     
  14. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Yes! :cool:

    BTW, DC is still alive (until this weekend).
     
  15. Kappa74

    Kappa74 Member+

    Feb 2, 2010
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Playoffstatus.com gives DCU less than 1% of getting into the playoffs. Your team is still alive Knave. Don`t let anyone tell you otherwise.
     
  16. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    Somewhere, someone is digging up a screen capture of Dumb & Dumber.
     
  17. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I checked. Turns out I pronounced DC United's season over on July 19.
     
  18. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Well, I fail. I check out sportsclubstats.com and I could have sworn they had DC listed as completely out, but they have them back in (with a 0.0001% chance).

    And Knave, you're right about getting to versus getting through the threshold. Still, the point remains that if Colorado can't get to / through the threshold in the last seven games, including home games remaining against New England, Philly, and DC, they don't deserve to get into the playoffs.
     
  19. jeffmefun

    jeffmefun Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Quakeland, CA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Knave - thanks much for the OP and these links. Between those, Kappa's playoffstatus.com, and Gonzo's http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/MLS.html, I think the waterfront is covered.

    And, because they are all in agreement that the Sounders will make the cut, I suggest we cut the season short and start the playoffs now. Why bother playing the games? ;)
     
  20. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Code:
    [B][U]         GP  GR W   D   L   PTS PPG   PRJ MPP SE# M#  T#  HD#  HD#*[/U]
    01  LAG  24  6  14  05  05  47  1.96  59  65  19  05  33  -35  -1.17
    02  CMB  24  6  13  05  06  44  1.83  55  62  16  08  30  -20  -0.67
    03  RSL  24  6  12  08  04  44  1.83  55  62  16  08  30  -20  -0.67
    04  FCD  23  7  10  11  02  41  1.78  53  62  16  11  30  -05  -0.17
    05  NYR  24  6  12  04  08  40  1.67  50  58  12  12  26  00   0.00
    06  SJE  23  7  10  06  07  36  1.57  47  57  11  16  25  18   0.60
    07  COL  23  7  09  07  07  34  1.48  44  55  09  18  23  26   0.87
    08  SEA  24  6  09  06  09  33  1.38  41  51  05  19  19  35   1.17
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    09  KCW  22  8  07  06  09  27  1.23  37  51  05  25  19  49   1.63
    10  CHI  22  8  06  08  08  26  1.18  35  50  04  26  18  53   1.77
    11  TFC  24  6  07  07  10  28  1.17  35  46  00  24  14  60   2.00
    12  CDC  23  7  07  04  12  25  1.09  33  46  00  27  14  65   2.17
    13  NER  23  7  07  03  13  24  1.04  31  45  -01 28  13  69   2.30
    14  HOU  23  7  06  05  12  23  1.00  30  44  -02 29  12  73   2.43
    15  PHI  24  6  06  06  12  24  1.00  30  42  -04 28  10  80   2.67
    16  DCU  24  6  05  03  16  18  0.75  23  36  -10 34  04  110  3.67
    Code:
    GP = Games Played | GR = Games Remaining | PPG = Points Per Game
    MPP = Max Points Possible = PTS + (3 x GR)
    SE# = SS Elimination Number = MPP - (1st Place PTS) + 1 
    M# = Magic Number = (9th Highest MPP) – PTS + 1
    T# = Tragic Number = MPP – (8th Highest PTS) + 1
    HD# = Historical Despair Number = [URL="https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21809605&postcount=1"]Full explanation.[/URL]
    HD#* = HD#/30 (i.e. in PPG)
    
    - Sorted by PPG, then fewest GP, then alphabetical.*
    - Teams in [COLOR="SlateGray"]gray[/COLOR] have been eliminated from the playoffs.
    - Teams in [COLOR="DarkBlue"]blue[/COLOR] have clinched a playoff spot.
    - Teams in [COLOR="SeaGreen"]green[/COLOR] are conference champions.
    
    * In the final weeks MLS tie-breakers will replace the final alphabetical 
    sort. But until the final weeks it's seriously not worth the bother.[/B]
    Housekeeping

    1. When I do the next big update, I'd like to add a box with links to other MLS numbers resources. Shortlist: Setting The Table, SportsClubStats, Sagarin, Climbing The Ladder, PlayoffStatus. Any others?

    2. By popular demand I've added a new column with the HD# expressed in PPG. There are actually two ways to derive that number, and the results can vary on some occasions due to rounding.

    Option 1:

    Step 1: [(40 points - Actual Points) / Games Remaining] * 30
    Step 2: Round up (as explained in the first post)
    Step 3: Divide by 30

    Option 2:

    Step Only: [(40 points - Actual Points) / Games Remaining]​

    Example: Take SJE's numbers today.

    Option 1:

    Step 1: [(40 - 36) / 7] * 30 = 17.1
    Step 2: 18
    Step 3: .6

    Option 2:

    Step Only: [(40 - 36) / 7] = .571​

    Obviously Option 2 is more exact, and I thought seriously about using that option for the HD#*. But I elected to go with Option 1 instead because I wanted to retain a very clear equivalence between the HD# and the HD#*. So, there you go -- full disclosure.

    Anyway, looking back over my old posts on the DCU board where I first started thinking about this HD# measure, I always talked about it both as a 30 game extrapolation and in PPG -- "a 60 point pace (2 PPG)," for example. I'll try to revert to that old way of presenting things.

    Notes

    So SJE beat PHI, and I think the HD# underlines how big a win it was. Before today's win SJE's HD# stood at 27 (.9 PPG). With this one victory SJE's HD# dropped by 1/3 to 18 (.6 PPG). That's a very big leap forward. (Of course, that number can go back up if SJE starts losing games.) As for SJE surpassing NYR (a concern from earlier in this thread), a NYR loss to FCD on Thursday night would certainly help.

    And PHI? The good news is you're still 6 points ahead of DCU. The bad news is you're only 6 points ahead of DCU.
     
  21. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Code:
    [B][U]         GP  GR W   D   L   PTS PPG   PRJ MPP SE# M#  T#  HD#  HD#÷ [/U]
    01  LAG  24  6  14  05  05  47  1.96  59  65  19  05  33  -35  -1.17
    02  CMB  24  6  13  05  06  44  1.83  55  62  16  08  30  -20  -0.67
    03  RSL  24  6  12  08  04  44  1.83  55  62  16  08  30  -20  -0.67
    04  FCD  24  6  10  12  02  42  1.75  53  60  14  10  28  -10  -0.33
    05  NYR  25  5  12  05  08  41  1.64  49  56  10  11  24  -06  -0.20
    06  SJE  23  7  10  06  07  36  1.57  47  57  11  16  25  18   0.60
    07  COL  23  7  09  07  07  34  1.48  44  55  09  18  23  26   0.87
    08  SEA  24  6  09  06  09  33  1.38  41  51  05  19  19  35   1.17
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    09  KCW  22  8  07  06  09  27  1.23  37  51  05  25  19  49   1.63
    10  CHI  22  8  06  08  08  26  1.18  35  50  04  26  18  53   1.77
    11  TFC  24  6  07  07  10  28  1.17  35  46  00  24  14  60   2.00
    12  CDC  23  7  07  04  12  25  1.09  33  46  00  27  14  65   2.17
    13  NER  23  7  07  03  13  24  1.04  31  45  -01 28  13  69   2.30
    14  HOU  23  7  06  05  12  23  1.00  30  44  -02 29  12  73   2.43
    15  PHI  24  6  06  06  12  24  1.00  30  42  -04 28  10  80   2.67
    16  DCU  24  6  05  03  16  18  0.75  23  36  -10 34  04  110  3.67
    Code:
    GP = Games Played | GR = Games Remaining | PPG = Points Per Game
    MPP = Max Points Possible = PTS + (3 x GR)
    SE# = SS Elimination Number = MPP - (1st Place PTS) + 1 
    M# = Magic Number = (9th Highest MPP) – PTS + 1
    T# = Tragic Number = MPP – (8th Highest PTS) + 1
    HD# = Historical Despair Number = [URL="https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21809605&postcount=1"]Full explanation.[/URL]
    HD#÷ = HD#/30 (i.e. in PPG)
    
    - Sorted by PPG, then fewest GP, then alphabetical.^
    - Teams in [COLOR="SlateGray"]gray[/COLOR] have been eliminated from the playoffs.
    - Teams in [COLOR="DarkBlue"]blue[/COLOR] have clinched a playoff spot.
    - Teams in [COLOR="SeaGreen"]green[/COLOR] are conference champions.
    
    ^ In the final weeks MLS tie-breakers will replace the final alphabetical 
    sort. But until the final weeks it's seriously not worth the bother.[/B]
    Notes

    FCD drew NYR. That result is sort of inconsequential for both teams. It did put NYR through the 40 point threshold, but that was going to happen sooner or later anyway. And it diminished FCD's chances for making a run at the SS, but not by much and that's sort of theoretical. The team it probably benefited the most was SJE who is now in a position to make a run at surpassing both FCD and NYR. Passing NYR is meaningless aside from bragging rights, but passing FCD would give SJE second place in the West. So perhaps this draw made the Western Conference a bit more interesting.
     
  22. Furacao del Norte

    Mar 13, 2009
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was it LA or RSL that hacked you off so much you're ignoring their very existence? :)
     
  23. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I can't believe I forgot about RSL. I was tired. What can I say?
     
  24. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    SL,UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what can he say about RSL or LAG? LA controls its own fate as far as winning the conference and has an easier schedule for doing so. RSL controls its own fate as far as finishing 2nd in the conference, but has a very difficult schedule (what with all the extra CCL games and all). SJE has 2 games in hand over the teams ahead of them in the conference but is probably going to need to go on a good run to get past them. RSL and FCD are playing the best soccer in the league right now.

    the eastern conference is pretty much decided, NYRB isnt going to overtake Columbus and nobody is going to catch NYRB for 2nd. it will be interesting to see if toronto can muster anything up to make a run at seattle or colorado for a spot, but with the way they are playing im not banking on it. basically from here on out i think its going to be a battle of positioning in the playoffs, who is going to land where in the order.
     
  25. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All good points, but read the quote he was responding to. FCD is currently third in the West, so SJE passing FCD would move them to third, not second.
     

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