If you regard Gooch as a quality signing that can help turn the team around, then you really are lost. He would be just another mediocre defender. Thats why there are contracts not being renewed because of the rubbish in the back. I guess we(real Toon fans) aren't so eager to jump on someones bandwagon just because they are American. Rubbish is rubbish. Let him go back to the subpar Belgium league and be a star rather than a nobody in a top tier league.
I never said he was a quality signing as it's to soon to tell. He could turn out to be the steal of the century or he could absolutely suck. but don't you think you are jumping the gun and being a bit impatient? Lets see, Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round and was a back-up quarterback for 4-5 years before he became the best quarterback in the leauge, maybe the best ever. Get your head out of your ass and try and understand what I'm trying to say. I'm saying it's to soon to tell if Gooch is a quality signing or not. You have to give it time. If I was a Toon fan I would not give up so easily at this time as he has shown promise on occasion is still relatively young and is known as a player that learns from his mistakes. Plus he has the raw tools to be dominant. Why the ******** are you giving up so soon? How can you see into the future and know he's going to be average to below average? Nothing in these last 5 games can lead you to that conclusion because he has played well at times and not so well at others. Exactly what you would expect from a rookie EPL player. I think he's actually looked better than I thought he would. You do realize this is his first go at the EPL and was thrown into one of the biggest pieces of shit to be called a defense in recent memory in the EPL right? Stop spewing inane bullshit please...
He hasn't been signed, and Newcastle have only four more games to decide if they'd like to sign him. So it's not premature for NUFC to determine whether Gooch will pan out for them, they are determining that right now-- this is the timeline everyone involved in this potential deal is working with. (which could all become potentially moot if Roeder is fired.)
I know he's not signed and it might be the time set to see if they will sign him but still wether NUFC signs him or not means absolutely nothing on how he will pan out in the future. (in the sense of, will he will be a quality defender in the Prem) I think Gooch will be a quality defender in the Prem regardless if NUFC sign him or not. He needs to go to a team who will give him some minutes and work with him. Everything I've seen this year from Gooch, being thrown into the fire like this, gives me optimism in his future prospects. He just needs a little seasoning and when he finds his home he will shine.
Thats the entire point that somehow you miss. We don't need more "future prospects". We need someone that will make an impact immediatley. We have prospects all over, as has been shown by how our youth, that got thrown to the first team this year, played. The inane bullshit is signing someone else that we need to wait on to get better. Gooch may be good in the future, but I know I would prefer to not have a good Gooch, in the Championship. With the expansions to SJP that are being done, all REAL Toon fans, are praying that that means FFS will finally make some good transfer money available in order to fill those seats.
Now this is a reasonable position, I think most of us can agree that NUFC likely wasn't the best situation for Gooch to get his introduction to true 'top-flight' football (at the club level anyway). Everything else is speculation and hope, nothing wrong with either but keep some perspective please.
Not sure why Toon fans expected a 24 year old coming on a 2 million pound transfer to step in and be the next Tony Adams. I'm also not sure why Toon fans expected that same 24 year old to clamp down a leaky and beleaguered backline by himself. Gooch's fate is unknown if, for no other reason, the fate of Roeder is unknown. Perhaps it will be let go. If he is I'd say he would be certain to find work someplace else in the EPL. And if he does go perhaps that will make room for Newcastle to get the type of player they expected when Gooch came on board. I'm not sure whether John Terry or Jamie Carragher can be got but you never know.
I'm a newcastle supporter...and unlike the others, I believe an American can actually help Newcastle. I hope Gooch fights his way into a perm. contract, but the benching against Portsmouth in a very big game for Newcastle doesn't bode well.
We didn't expect any of those things. We expected a consistent defender who could provide stablility to a "a leaky and beleaguered backline." It's clear he's not the player to do that. We might have given him too much credit.
Right. Newcastle's goals against goes down about a goal a game since Gooch shows up but the defense is still just as porous? Like I said you expected him to come in and shore up your defense. How many defenders in the world can come in mid-season and settle a defense by himself? Heck Cannavaro had some serious adjustment problems when he went to Real Madrid and he is one of the best defenders in the world and he STARTED the season with RM. The reality is that your backline IS better now than it was before Gooch arrived. However it is still not great. Having said all that, clearly Gooch is still adjusting to the EPL. But given the huge jump in competition he made midseason, I think there is plenty of reason to be optimistic about how good he could be next season. If you guys prefer to try some other untested defender in hopes of finding an instant John Terry, good luck.
maybe they wandered onto these message boards and witnessed the large circle jerks that occured with threads that contained his name?
Yea, the defense is still bad. Not shore up totally by himself, but provide enough stability for the time being so we can start to shore up the defense in the long run. Hasn't payed off too well. It's not reality, that is your opinion. What's there to be optimistic about? That line is getting really old. He's shown nothing so far to make people think he can be better than he is now. Maybe he can be. but there's nothing to support that. I don't know why you keep mentioning your hyopthesis that we're trying to find the next John Terry. We just want some people who can play decent defense consistently. Something Gooch so far hasn't done.
How so? Is it Gooch's fault that your team has forgotten how to score goals? Like I said if that is how you feel then clearly you have your mind made up. You readily admit that the rest of your backline is old and poor. Yet you wish to criticize Onyewu, a guy you got for relatively little money, because you have passed judgment on him already. Because your comments suggest that you are looking for a superior player or you simply are unwilling to consider adjustment issues and want to judge players based on what they are doing right now. Your attitude isn't all that uncommon. Many of my fellow Arsenal fans are ready to show a number of players the door because of recent play eventhough they were singing their praises just a few short months ago.
See previous Gooch threads for that discussion. Old and poor? The backline outside of Nobby or Moore isn't that old. We have enough young guys coming up that are better or have the potential to be better than Gooch. And I criticize everyone not just Onyewu. We don't need someone adjusting. We have young academy players to do that. And how would am I supposed judge players as opposed to what they are doing right now? My hopes and dreams? I wasn't singing his praises, ever.
Really? So football players don't need to adjust to new leagues and teams? Good to know that Gooch is uniquely susceptible to that.
Never said that. Your point was that Gooch needs time to adjust and will get better. My point is that we have enough guys to adjust and get better. We need someone who can step in and do the job. Something Gooch hasn't been able to do.
My opinion as a Newcastle supporter is that he has helped the team when he has been given a shot. I'd much rather have him than Babayaro, Moore, and Bramble. Taylor is certainly worth keeping, as is Ramage and Huntington. Gooch should be a mainstay!
Long time listener... first time caller. Your first assertion simply is not true. There is no one-goal-per-game improvement in goals allowed. It is more like a very small 0.21 goals-per-game improvment. It is tough to base believable arguments on wrong information. w-l-t for p in g --- gf-ga =================== Total Newcastle = 11-15-8 for 41 points in 34 games --- 37 gf - 43 ga Before Gooch, 9-10-6 for 33 points in 25 games --- 31 gf - 33 ga Since Gooch, 2-5-2 for 8 points in 9 games --- 6 gf - 10 ga ================== Goals against average before Gooch = 33/25 = 1.32 per game Goals against since Gooch = 10/9 = 1.11 per game Difference of about 1/5 goal a game. Newcastle has hit a bad patch in scoring recently. Because of that the defense must be extra careful and extra effective. It would be foolish to claim that the defense is somehow off the hook and need not worry about mistakes simply because the offense is struggling. This is a team game. Gooch has not been extra careful in recent games and the results show it. 1) He committed several fouls and defended poorly in the 0-1 loss to Wigan. His foul ("stupid foul" according to commentator) outside of the box led to the Wigan direct kick goal by Taylor. 2) He may not have directly allowed a goal in the 0-2 loss to weak Charlton but he was pwned by Bent --- getting behind Gooch twice and belting Gooch out of bounds on a legal shoulder charge after a very careless touch by Gooch. 3) He came on as a late replacement for the man-of-the-match central defender at 73 minutes in what was a 0-0 game against Manchester City and allowed the winning goal in minute 80 on a 2 on 4 situation, failing to cover either man, actually. Based on these three recent poor games, I can't believe that Gooch is the reason that there has been a microscopic 0.21 goals a game improvement in goals allowed. Perhaps the slight improvement in gaa has resulted in spite of Gooch's play --- it might have been even better without Gooch. Gooch needs to play much, much better than this to earn any Premiership position. Newcastle can lose very well either with him or without him. That is not the impressionthat a newcomer should give if he wants to make the team. Gooch needs a more forgiving situation because his flaws are becoming apparent and he needs time to work on fixing them. The problem is that he isn't getting any younger (almost 25?) and one can be a "project" for only so long before a team looks elsewhere for results. Newcastle plays Chelsea (home), Reading (away), Blackburn (home), and Watford (away). He has just the Chelsea and Reading games in which to make an impression before the end of April.
I should have been clearer in my GA stat. I did a comparison of the 8 games prior to Gooch arriving and the 8 games since Gooch arrived. That was where I got the 1 goal a game difference. Right before he got to Newcastle the defense was absolutely ghastly. I agree that he has made mistakes. But so do all defenders. William Gallas has made more than his fair share this season but since he has a strong reputation he gets a pass by most Arsenal supporters. I do think that Gooch gets absolutely analyzed to death here at BigSoccer. Honestly we are now going to say he is inconsistent because he gave up a free kick outside the box? To what standard are we holding this guy?
Really they played better without Gooch??? Let me remind you of the one truly disasterous defensive outing this year or did you forget your UEFA Cup game so easily, sans Gooch. Or how about the whole first half of the season! YOu guys are a riot man, just give it up already, we get it you don't like Gooch, because he's not Ferdinand right now, big ********ing deal "mate". Newcastle doesn't ********ing score goals, can you guys get that through your ********ing heads? I mean when I watch a Newcastle game, and I've watched many lately, the only thing that comes close is Fulham. Really the midfield is atrocious and fowards? Do you guys even have forwards? Gooch has been decent to average I agree ( with one major f'up) but with potential to be a lot better. I would be shocked with a full preseason that he doesn't improve dramatically. I think NUFC fans need a reality check because defense has not been their main problem in the last 7-8 games. You can't win a ********ing soccer game if you can't score at least one goal, get it? Next you're going to tell me Owens is coming back next year and your offense is going to be fine. Oh man, the pipe dream never ends does it? When this fool of a manager buries NUFC in the bottom of the table next year and they have to fight to stay up let me know how it feels. I actually really don't give a shit about Newcastle, I just care about Gooch getting minutes and improving. When he signs with a Prem Club I will become a fan of that club because I'm a big fan of his. (I don't have the jersey yet because I'm not sure he's staying) I hope it's not with Newcastle...
Well, that was a very sophisticated post. And to let you know Statman Crothers isn't a Newcastle fan. (to the best of my knowledge)
FTR, I read that Owen is supposed to be back next week or the next. Apparently NUFC and the FA are in a tiff about who should pay his medical bills and NUFC is threatening to bar him from playing some England matches. Sounds to me like they are just looking for an excuse to avoid their tender striker play for the national team.