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FATBACK 12 - what does Vidkun Quisling have to do to get on a Rossi T-shirt, anyway?
Posted 19 Jun 2009 at 07:23 PM by Dan Loney
Updated 19 Jun 2009 at 08:46 PM by Dan Loney (Blew a segue...which is against the law in 40 states)
Updated 19 Jun 2009 at 08:46 PM by Dan Loney (Blew a segue...which is against the law in 40 states)
I learned a lot this week from the show, at which you may point your ears here.
Most obviously, it was informational listening to Andrew Bell of the Charleston Battery talk USL. I don't see MLS ever expanding there, so I think the Bats' future is pretty bright. Even if MLS expands to 36 teams or something, the USL can make hay off markets 37 and down. Wikipedia tells me Charleston is only the third largest market in South Carolina, and 136th in the nation. That's an entire freaking English pyramid's worth of MLS before you get there, but the Battery have been going strong since 1993.
So naturally, mainly because I need the practice at being a radio loudmouth, we started talking about Giuseppe Rossi. I didn't actually mean to imply that you can't be a fan of the US National Team if you don't hate Giuseppe Rossi. It's just really easy to understand how those two things follow - at least, in my opinion.
American fans' hypocrisy on this topic has become a fairly prominent side issue. For one thing, we haven't been screwed as badly as Canada has yet. Fair enough.
And then there are all those, y'know, guys who were born elsewhere that played for us, and how this isn't exactly a short list. My standard response is, these players usually flow downhill, as it were. JP Dellacamera reminded us Thursday morning that Benny Feilhaber was born in Brazil. How badly do they miss him, do you imagine? Germany Jones, like Thomas Dooley before him, is only considering the US because Germany said danke but no danke. This was the case for nearly every player I can think of....
....and then Kenn reminded me of Hugo Perez, in a portion which didn't make it on the show. Moved to the United States at age 11, chose the bigger country over the smaller.
So I looked it up. In 1984, the year Perez got his first US cap, El Salvador hadn't been in a World Cup for nearly two years, while the United States hadn't been since 1950. The NASL was very nearly what it is today. We were at least as minnowy as ES back then - Perez probably made a sideways move at worst.
Speaking of not knowing things off the top of my head - in response to a suggestion that Rick Davis join the US Soccer Mount Rushmore, as the first real US-born, homegrown star...I probably should have remembered that Billy Gonsalves, Bert Patenaude, Frank Borghi and Walter Bahr were all born in the United States, and all learned the game here. So, when you listen, pretend I pointed that out.
...and, then there's the topic of the US National Team. That nice little sequence against Brazil between halftime and red card is a frail reed to pin hopes, dreams, and support for Bob Bradley. Really, at this point it's all about whether Sunil sees Alan Rothenberg sticking with Steve Sampson as precedent or warning.
The really depressing thing to me is that people are looking at Iraq, and thinking Bora Milutinovic should return to the job. C'mon, Metrostars fans, tell them about 1999.
Most obviously, it was informational listening to Andrew Bell of the Charleston Battery talk USL. I don't see MLS ever expanding there, so I think the Bats' future is pretty bright. Even if MLS expands to 36 teams or something, the USL can make hay off markets 37 and down. Wikipedia tells me Charleston is only the third largest market in South Carolina, and 136th in the nation. That's an entire freaking English pyramid's worth of MLS before you get there, but the Battery have been going strong since 1993.
So naturally, mainly because I need the practice at being a radio loudmouth, we started talking about Giuseppe Rossi. I didn't actually mean to imply that you can't be a fan of the US National Team if you don't hate Giuseppe Rossi. It's just really easy to understand how those two things follow - at least, in my opinion.
American fans' hypocrisy on this topic has become a fairly prominent side issue. For one thing, we haven't been screwed as badly as Canada has yet. Fair enough.
And then there are all those, y'know, guys who were born elsewhere that played for us, and how this isn't exactly a short list. My standard response is, these players usually flow downhill, as it were. JP Dellacamera reminded us Thursday morning that Benny Feilhaber was born in Brazil. How badly do they miss him, do you imagine? Germany Jones, like Thomas Dooley before him, is only considering the US because Germany said danke but no danke. This was the case for nearly every player I can think of....
....and then Kenn reminded me of Hugo Perez, in a portion which didn't make it on the show. Moved to the United States at age 11, chose the bigger country over the smaller.
So I looked it up. In 1984, the year Perez got his first US cap, El Salvador hadn't been in a World Cup for nearly two years, while the United States hadn't been since 1950. The NASL was very nearly what it is today. We were at least as minnowy as ES back then - Perez probably made a sideways move at worst.
Speaking of not knowing things off the top of my head - in response to a suggestion that Rick Davis join the US Soccer Mount Rushmore, as the first real US-born, homegrown star...I probably should have remembered that Billy Gonsalves, Bert Patenaude, Frank Borghi and Walter Bahr were all born in the United States, and all learned the game here. So, when you listen, pretend I pointed that out.
...and, then there's the topic of the US National Team. That nice little sequence against Brazil between halftime and red card is a frail reed to pin hopes, dreams, and support for Bob Bradley. Really, at this point it's all about whether Sunil sees Alan Rothenberg sticking with Steve Sampson as precedent or warning.
The really depressing thing to me is that people are looking at Iraq, and thinking Bora Milutinovic should return to the job. C'mon, Metrostars fans, tell them about 1999.
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Freddy Adu and Luis Robles went up.Posted 19 Jun 2009 at 07:51 PM by Zak1FCK 
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Robin Fraser and Jeff Cunningham were both born in Jamaica and opted to play for the US. Does that count as falling up?
Posted 19 Jun 2009 at 08:05 PM by Sandon Mibut
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wasnt Freddy Adu born in Ghana? Thats a sideways move at best and a downward move in all likelihood. As for Robles, yeah he moved up but Puerto Rico is actually part of the US so in fact he didnt move at all. :P
Posted 19 Jun 2009 at 08:31 PM by CornellBigRed
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Bora is teaching Iraq how to lose by 1-0 instead of by 3-0. He taught us that, too, but despite Thursday's embarrassment, we don't need to go there again.
Posted 19 Jun 2009 at 09:17 PM by Roger Allaway
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Credit where credit is due: It was Roger who reminded me about Perez. But that was before the internet, so, of course, it didn't really happen. If you couldn't bitch about it anonymously with a bunch of people you never met, no harm, no foul.
Posted 20 Jun 2009 at 12:21 AM by kenntomasch
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Luis Robles was born in Arizona.
Posted 20 Jun 2009 at 01:51 AM by ThreeApples 
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funny thing
Funny thing that those US ranters want to label Giuseppe Rossi a traitor.
I still don;t see what US Soccer has done to fall over backwards to make it worth while for a player to play in America.
MLS rookies still have to bunk up 2 or 3 to a house and keep some professional career on the back burner.
Meanwhile, most European stars are set for life with 2 or 3 good season (or one good world cup!)
Rossi did the right thing - and I would encourage any soccer player to go tot Europe until US Soccer and MLS come up with top pay for American talent.
The disrespect that American players face - look at the salaries of returning Americans vs. foreigners in MLS ?
Ljungberg - Keller
Schelletto - McBride
Marinelli - Wolff
anyone else see a difference ? The above Americans are World Cup players with European experience. Yet they get paid less than their foreign counterparts.
case closed.Posted 20 Jun 2009 at 09:35 AM by TheHun
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There's a difference between expatriating oneself to play for the national team of a country with which one has only a tenous connection (an ancestor is from there), and moving to a country as a child, growing up there and ultimately playing for the national team. Rossi did the former, Feilhaber and Mastroeni the latter. As for Jermaine Jones, I'm against him playing for the U.S. for the same reason. He was born in Germany, grew up in Germany, lives and plays in Germany. So his old man was American? I don't see how that makes Jermaine American. He has never lived here. Has he ever even been here?
I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with going to another country to play for a professional club. This is done all over the world. You go where the best deal is, in terms of money, opportunity, etc. But playing professionally in another country does not change one's nationality.Posted 20 Jun 2009 at 09:54 AM by SoFo
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funny thing
i think you're about right on all of this except that success in club team is usually what gets you playing time in the national team. clubs are also where the majority of the money is made. i don't know what rossi really wanted (national glory, pleasing a proud father), but i don't see why playing for the US would have meant he couldn't make a killing playing for a club team in europe. it's pretty clear that playing at big clubs in big competitions means better player development, no big deal, but why turn his back on this country. sure, it's some sort of self-interest, but then most people see the world cup as the olympics of soccer...make your money some way, but represent your country for no other reason than it's your country. fans expect some loyalty since that's what they feel. it's idealistic and nationalistic. so what? that's what the national team is all about.Quote:Originally Posted by TheHun
Funny thing that those US ranters want to label Giuseppe Rossi a traitor.
I still don;t see what US Soccer has done to fall over backwards to make it worth while for a player to play in America.
MLS rookies still have to bunk up 2 or 3 to a house and keep some professional career on the back burner.
Meanwhile, most European stars are set for life with 2 or 3 good season (or one good world cup!)
Rossi did the right thing - and I would encourage any soccer player to go tot Europe until US Soccer and MLS come up with top pay for American talent.
The disrespect that American players face - look at the salaries of returning Americans vs. foreigners in MLS ?
Ljungberg - Keller
Schelletto - McBride
Marinelli - Wolff
anyone else see a difference ? The above Americans are World Cup players with European experience. Yet they get paid less than their foreign counterparts.
case closed.Posted 20 Jun 2009 at 10:28 AM by bob_deniro
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He could have played club ball overseas and still played for the US Nats. I don't think anyone would give a rat's ass whether or not he played in America as long as he played for America. Especially last Monday.Quote:Funny thing that those US ranters want to label Giuseppe Rossi a traitor.
I still don;t see what US Soccer has done to fall over backwards to make it worth while for a player to play in America.
MLS rookies still have to bunk up 2 or 3 to a house and keep some professional career on the back burner.
Meanwhile, most European stars are set for life with 2 or 3 good season (or one good world cup!)Posted 20 Jun 2009 at 12:45 PM by kenntomasch
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