Restart question (Revs v. Fire)

[Grizzlierbear]

Originally posted by Statesman


The caution was for the keeper bouncing the ball off the head of the opponent, not for carrying the ball outside the box.

Thanks Statesman I was unaware! I assumed, as in all situations it works better if you see it. A bit lost though, the ball was was bounced off an opponent's head after the keeper stepped outside the boundry lines incident in the process of releasing the ball? Or was it in never released and thrown after the whistle in anger? In that case should not a red card should be considered?

[Statesman]

That was the explanation given later in the match. I don't think the cameras actually caught the action of that happening, so I can't tell you the specifics. I believe the keeper tossed the ball up out of frustration from Hristo tipping off the ref, and it happened to lightly rebound off of Hristo himself from being in close proximity. Whether it was intentional or not, it certainly wasn't anything violent but definitely unsporting. I haven't really heard an exact report with the specifics, just bits and pieces. I wasn't watching the game that closely when it happened so I might be missing something, or completely off the mark for that matter and be confusing this with something else :)

[MassachusettsRef]

I saw the match, and it seemed pretty clear to me that Stoitchkov--and not Brown, the keeper--was the one who was cautioned after the play. Corrie isolated him and showed him the yellow after Stoitchkov was trying to pry the ball from Brown's hands and pushing/slapping him in the process.

Also, I don't think it's correct to say that Stoitchkov "tipped of the ref". Yes, he was dramatically pointing that Brown was over the line. But, it appeared that Corrie--rightly--waited for his SAR to confirm that Brown was over the line before ever whistling. Calling a foul everytime Stoitchkov or anyone else yells at you from 40 yards doesn't seem like a smart thing to make a habit.

[Statesman]

Ok I need to get my head out of my ass. I've gotten this particular match confused with a few others that were going on. I wasn't paying much attention to the events at the time so please disregard my comments.

[Scott Zawadzki]

I'm going to jump back in here to get back to my original point...and hopefully give some of you something to think about. When awarding a free kick extemely close to the penalty area, be aware of the attacking team trying to pull the ball back away from the spot of the infraction. It is a tactical move by the attacking team to give them a better chance of scoring. Anybody who feels that it is trifling, or that it is to their disadvantage to move the ball back probably feels this way because they have never been a free-kick taker. IMHO, the referee was not being responsible by allowing Stoitchkov to pull the freekick back a couple of yards.

Scott

[vabeacher]

As long as the defensive wall is the required distance from the ball I don't see any tactical advantage to taking a free kick from 20 yards vs. 18 yards. If there were, we'd see a quick backpass every time there is a free kick from the edge of the penalty area. Maybe Stoichkov thought he could get himself a bit more distance between the ball and the wall by pulling the ball back.

[Scott Zawadzki]

No...(IMHO) Hristo knew exactly what he was doing, and the referee should have as well. It is extremely difficult to get a good free kick from close range with a wall 10 yards away. (Ask a good free kick specialist next time you see one) The physics of the ball and the lack of bend that you can put on it over a short distance make it so. The spin of the ball does not make the ball curve until enough of a "low-pressure cell" has been built up on one side of the ball. Much like a baseball pitch which doesn't break until it is close to the hitter. Hristo tried (and succeeded) in pulling the free kick back to give himself a better chance.

Let's all remember that when it comes to gamesmanship, there is nobody better in the MLS than Hristo Stoickhkov!

BTW...I'm not a physics guru. This is how it was explained to me by a physics professor.

Scott

[scrub]

I'm not a referee but I saw that event, and I have a tangential question. I guess this has to do with delay of game or something.

If Hristo is allowed to take the kick right away he would have had a sure goal (I mean nobody but the keeper was back there).

Routinely, teams get right in front of the ball or pick it up or toss it away to gain some extra time to put together a good defense.

Why are teams allowed to do this? Seems unsporting.

Not sure how referees feel about it. As a fan I hate it.

[billf]

Originally posted by Scott Zawadzki
No...(IMHO) Hristo knew exactly what he was doing, and the referee should have as well. It is extremely difficult to get a good free kick from close range with a wall 10 yards away. (Ask a good free kick specialist next time you see one) The physics of the ball and the lack of bend that you can put on it over a short distance make it so. The spin of the ball does not make the ball curve until enough of a "low-pressure cell" has been built up on one side of the ball. Much like a baseball pitch which doesn't break until it is close to the hitter. Hristo tried (and succeeded) in pulling the free kick back to give himself a better chance.

Let's all remember that when it comes to gamesmanship, there is nobody better in the MLS than Hristo Stoickhkov!

BTW...I'm not a physics guru. This is how it was explained to me by a physics professor.

Scott

I understand what you're saying and I agree to an extent, but on this play, Stoickhkov didn't attempt to bend the ball. He blasted the ball. Even with the extra few feet he may have gotten, there still wasn't much room to bend the ball. Now the referee has no way to know what the kicker's intentions are, so he can't know that.

Besides that, a free kick is designed to punish the team that committed the foul. I feel that it's important to make sure the ball isn't too close, but I don't have a problem with attacker moving it back slightly. As a referee, if you can place the ball in a way that makes it slightly easier to ensure 10 yards are given, I think that's okay too. I'm not saying that we should move a free kick back 5 yards or anything drastic, but I feel that a free kick placed 1-2 yards behind the spot of the foul isn't that big of a deal.

[Scott Zawadzki]

I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Scott

[Scott Zawadzki]

Originally posted by scrub
I'm not a referee but I saw that event, and I have a tangential question. I guess this has to do with delay of game or something.

If Hristo is allowed to take the kick right away he would have had a sure goal (I mean nobody but the keeper was back there).

Routinely, teams get right in front of the ball or pick it up or toss it away to gain some extra time to put together a good defense.

Why are teams allowed to do this? Seems unsporting.

Not sure how referees feel about it. As a fan I hate it.

As a fan, I can't blame you for hating this. There is a soccer myth out there that the team taking a free kick must request that the referee move the wall back to the proper distance. This is not the case. Failure to give the proper distance for a free kick is indeed a cautionable offence. Please take the time to ready this well thought out piece by Ed Rae - Mass. SDI

http://www.massref.net/msrc_er9.htm

Scott

[jkc313]

Originally posted by Dave Han
This drifts the thread a little bit, but it's related. It happened a while ago, but I've forgotten to ask about it.

In a rec game, the goalkeeper smothers the ball inside the six yard box. He gets up and for some reason carries the ball into the goal.

This was not a restart: the ball was in play and in the goalkeeper's posession. Is it a goal?

If all of the ball crosses all of the line between the goalposts and under the crossbar, yes it's a goal

[Grizzlierbear]

Originally posted by Scott Zawadzki
I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Scott

Well you will get no disagreement with me Scott you are spot on!