Height and center backs

[beineke]

On 4thegame.com, the "Squad" lists a possible starting line-up for each Premiership team. I looked up the height of all 40 players listed as starting center backs. Here's the number of players at each height:

6'6 - 1
6'5 - 0
6'4 - 4
6'3 - 2
6'2 - 11
6'1 - 8
6'0 - 9
5'11 - 3
5'10 - 0
5'9 - 2

If average height is 5'10, then only two of these guys are below average -- Tugay and Steve Stone. And if I'm not mistaken, both of them made their name playing other positions.

A slightly more technical point:
Looking at this data, there's a temptation to think there's a disadvantage to being too tall. After all, there are a lot more 6'2 players than players over 6'5. However, that pattern follows the bell curve distribution of height in the general population. From this data, it's very hard to say whether its better to be 6'2 or 6'6.

But it's clearly much better to be 6'2 than 5'10. (Hopefully, Frank Simek can beat the odds.)

[ChrisE]

Interesting topic, beineke. I happened to have the information for MLS, and thought you might be interested to see it. MLS doesn't divide defenders by position, so I had to do it myself, and so it's certainly possible there will be a few errors.

For MLS center backs, the distribution looks like:

5.7 - 1
5.8 - 1
5.9 - 0
5.10 - 3
5.11 - 3
6.0 - 11
6.1 - 9
6.2 - 4
6.3 - 2
6.4 - 1

with the below-average players being Diego Gutierrez and Juan Forchetti (plus Agoos, Garcia, and Pierce at 5-10). One suspects the curve would be a little more balanced if MLS didn't tend to inflate player heights (as you brought up in your previous thread), and 6-0 weren't such an appealing number.

Average heights were:

wb 5.92
cb 6.02

with almost exactly the same (5.92, 6.03) when weighted by minutes played.

[Karl K]

Boy, lay both those lists on their side, and I think we have something that looks like a bell curve, yes?

The other thing that would be REALLY interesting, which we will probably never see, is vertical leap in relation to height. That's not to say we'd every see a Spud Webb type playing centerback in a 1st division soccer league, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of those smaller guys can really sky.

[superdave]

Originally posted by ChrisE
with the below-average players being Diego Gutierrez and Juan Forchetti
Wasn't Forchetti a wide player? Not to mention he didn't play many matches.

Weight it by games, and I'll bet the data gets "taller."

[ChrisE]

Originally posted by superdave
Wasn't Forchetti a wide player? Not to mention he didn't play many matches.

Weight it by games, and I'll bet the data gets "taller."

I'm pretty certain Forchetti was a central midfielder - there was a lot of debate about whether he or Kenny Arena should be starting. Edgar and Digiamarino played lb, Ziadie and Leitch played rb.

As for weighting it by playing time, I already did )I used minutes), and it hardly makes a bit of difference.

wb 207.25 305642.5 35 51623 5.92 5.92
cb 210.75 346932.4167 35 57579 6.02 6.03


pos. height adj. ht.
wb 5.92 5.92
cb 6.02 6.03

f 5.92 5.87
m/f 5.84 5.82
m 5.79 5.80
d/m 5.92 5.90
d 5.99 6.00
gk 6.16 6.15

[JohnR]

Of course, this exercise is fraught with the difficulty of estimating the degree of "height inflation" on listed player heights. Anybody care to hazard a guess as to the effect?

I have a sample size of two. Frank Klopas was listed as 5' 9" and that is very accurate, just what I would estimate. Hristo Stoichkov is also listed at 5' 9". I would estimate 5' 9" also for him, although he might be half an inch or so shorter than Klopas.

So in my teeny, tiny sample size I have not seen evidence of "height inflation."

I've met three ex-NFL players. Ronnie Lott is maybe 5' 10". Bill Ring (ex Niner running back is about 5' 9".) Matt Suhey (ex Bear running back is like Stoichkov, 5' 9" at best and maybe 5' 8"). Lott was listed at 6' 1" in his playing days and Ring & Suhey at 5' 10", I believe. So you definitely can't believe the NFL stats.

[beineke]

Originally posted by JohnR
Hristo Stoichkov is also listed at 5' 9". I would estimate 5' 9" also for him, although he might be half an inch or so shorter than Klopas.

http://www.ibiblio.org/footy/2003/1019_dc_clb_ajm/web_ajm_3666.jpg

Listed heights:
Convey 5'9
Martins 6'0
Stoitchkov 5'9
Ivanov 6'0
Warren 6'0
Nelsen 6'1

Certainly, it's tough to judge from a picture like this, esp. since Nelsen's feet are considerably lower than Convey's. Still, I think there's a bit of inflation here.