Lack of Discipline

[Coach_McGuirk]

“The time has come”, the Walrus said
“To talk of many things.”
“Of sailing ships and sealing wax”
“Of cabbages and kings”
“And why the sea is boiling hot”
“And whether pigs have wings”

- Lewis Carroll

The time has come, my fellow fans, to discuss the obvious, and by the obvious I mean the complete lack of discipline that is befuddling our efforts right now. Our club is in danger of blowing what could be an outstanding season simply because they cannot control themselves, either on or off the pitch. The list of crimes committed has grown by the match, and it’s high time we, as fans, voiced our concerns to the powers that be at the club.

The club have now had their captain sent off once again for an act of petulance that cannot be overlooked, yet our manager has done just that, intimating that the play in question was “out of character” for a character we know to be a hot head. In recent weeks there have been dust-ups following tough challenges, multiple bookings, bookings before entering the field of play(!), and enough future suspensions that we will be lucky to even hang on to the league title, let alone hoist any other silverware this season.

Adding to this whole mess is the fact that now our manager is defending the indefensible, blaming officials for our woes, and showing terrible displays of sportsmanship on the game’s biggest stage in Europe. I think we can all agree that the manager must take responsibility for controlling the players, and that until he does, our club will be labeled “outlaws”, or worse.

What can be done? Should we, as fans, demand more for the club? How can we let the storied name of our club be tarnished by these actions? It is time we took action as the players and manager are disrespecting the club AND the game itself. We must hold ourselves to a higher standard!

Sound familiar?

Anything you’ve heard before?

Sure you have. It’s what you hear from the media and other fans every time an Arsenal player so much as breathes on an official, except when it’s Arsenal they also want a pound of flesh (points deduction) in addition to suspensions and fines.

Since the “Battle of Old Trafford: Handbags at 20 Paces”, Arsenal have been on double secret probation, and aside from Lehman bouncing the ball of an opponent’s head, they have kept to the high road. Now that the season is winding down, it is not Arsenal with problems toeing the company line, but our pals at Old Trafford.

The worm has turned, the shoe is on the other foot, etc., etc.

Oddly enough, there are no calls for a points deduction this time, not from the media nor anyone else. The cries you do hear are those of a beaten man, trying to figure out what went wrong and why his magic touch has somehow left him.

“The ref should have given the penalty”, “they were diving”, “the keeper made a meal of it”. This has been the week that was for a certain manager with a red nose and a hankering to enter the horse racing business, who shall remain nameless at this time. Even his “mind games” have turned on him, as it has been his club who have dropped 4 out of six points since he declared that “going undefeated could weigh on them”. Perhaps he should have learned from 2002 that mind games don’t work if the other team refuses to play.

Wenger has stated that the season is not over yet, and it isn’t. There are still 11 matches left and stranger things have happened, but with the disaster of last year fresh in their minds, I doubt the players will collapse once again.

Perhaps 2004 will be remembered as the year that the mind games blew up in the face of the source, and sent him into a spiral of despair.

Then again, maybe it will just be remembered as the year Arsenal’s dominance really took hold.

[yossarian]

Oh boy. Paging Prawn Sandwich...Mr. Sandwich please pick up the white courtesy phone. ;)

[Prawn Sandwich]

I'm not biting on that one..... :D

Although!

Re Keane - I think he has mellowed significantly over the last couple of years. Let's be honest, if the incident against Porto would have happened 3-4 years ago then Keane would have stamped the guy in the head, not stepped on his hip...

Fergie is back to the silly attempts at psychology he resorts to every now and again. Although I do think that bringing in Walter Smith as the number two is a good move - I can't see that guy standing for poor discipline amongst the team and will happily put a few rockets up peoples arses.

I think people underestimated two things re Man U this season;

1) Losing Queiroz has been a big deal for us - he stabilised the defence and we have gone to pot since Rio left. We needed that focus again over the last 6 weeks and it wasn't there

2) Looking at who left and who joined over summer made me think it would be a "rebuilding" season for us this year. I think our results flattered to deceive over the first half of the season - I can only remember us playing really well on a couple of occaions this season.

At the end of the day, Arsenal are good value for their lead right now. They've been the best team over the season and, if they retain form and Man U/Chelsea do not perform a miracle run, should win the league deservedly.

I just hope that we can put all this corporate crap behind us before the next season and actually invest in the talent that a club with our financial resources should be pulling in. Losing Robben the way we did was embarassing......

[phishy]

i think its just that now manyoo just cant "bully" clubs anymore with their ways of doing business...
this year has been a total disaster IMO..
the results on the pitch hasnt helped either..
they deserve everything they get.. which is a big ol bag a nothing!!! i love how psv explained the shady dealings of fergie... manyoo think they are the mob, they are just a massive club who, at the moment, just dont have the right mix...

lets really get that fcuking treble~~

phishy~

[Prawn Sandwich]

Originally posted by phishy
i think its just that now manyoo just cant "bully" clubs anymore with their ways of doing business...
this year has been a total disaster IMO..
the results on the pitch hasnt helped either..
they deserve everything they get.. which is a big ol bag a nothing!!! i love how psv explained the shady dealings of fergie... manyoo think they are the mob, they are just a massive club who, at the moment, just dont have the right mix...

lets really get that fcuking treble~~

phishy~

Did you remember to clear the froth from your mouth after that rant phishy? :D

Nothing is decided yet this season - considering how badly Man U have played are you that happy that you are only 9 points clear?

As to the shady dealings of Fergie? Do you really think Arsenal have been whiter than white in all their transfer dealings?

[phishy]

Originally posted by Prawn Sandwich
Did you remember to clear the froth from your mouth after that rant phishy? :D

Nothing is decided yet this season - considering how badly Man U have played are you that happy that you are only 9 points clear?

As to the shady dealings of Fergie? Do you really think Arsenal have been whiter than white in all their transfer dealings?

yes.. but im a total homer for the club~ :)

[ZonaGunner]

Prawn's points are generally on target (did I just say that?).

But Coach's point about the media hypocrisy is also on target. Arsenal always have to walk a tighter line than other clubs. This is just the most recent example.

[jwaldman11]

Originally posted by Prawn Sandwich
I'm not biting on that one..... :D

Although!

Re Keane - I think he has mellowed significantly over the last couple of years. Let's be honest, if the incident against Porto would have happened 3-4 years ago then Keane would have stamped the guy in the head, not stepped on his hip...

Fergie is back to the silly attempts at psychology he resorts to every now and again. Although I do think that bringing in Walter Smith as the number two is a good move - I can't see that guy standing for poor discipline amongst the team and will happily put a few rockets up peoples arses.

I think people underestimated two things re Man U this season;

1) Losing Queiroz has been a big deal for us - he stabilised the defence and we have gone to pot since Rio left. We needed that focus again over the last 6 weeks and it wasn't there

2) Looking at who left and who joined over summer made me think it would be a "rebuilding" season for us this year. I think our results flattered to deceive over the first half of the season - I can only remember us playing really well on a couple of occaions this season.

At the end of the day, Arsenal are good value for their lead right now. They've been the best team over the season and, if they retain form and Man U/Chelsea do not perform a miracle run, should win the league deservedly.

I just hope that we can put all this corporate crap behind us before the next season and actually invest in the talent that a club with our financial resources should be pulling in. Losing Robben the way we did was embarassing......

Yeah, that's pretty much dead on. I think not having a #2 at ManUre (sorry, couldn't resist!) was detrimental because I firmly believe that one man can't run a team during a game. It gives the manager a second opinion about things so that, if the manager has any question about a move or is going to do something boneheaded, there's somebody there to provide advice. At some clubs, like Arsenal with Pat Rice, the assistant also give a lot of the on-field instruction too, so that helps as well. I think it REALLY would have helped Fergie this season with all the stuff he's dealing with on the side.

I am wondering, though, how much Chelsea's lottery win...I mean new ownership...has impacted things with United. It used to be that, if United lost a major talent, they would have their choice of the top players because they were the only ones in England who could afford to go after them. Now you have Chelsea going through and picking up some of United's targets, limiting what the Devils can do and who they can replace (ie, Beckham).

Regarding Keane, I must, with a heavy heart, agree. Even Vieira admitted that Keane played peacemaker after Paddy picked up a red. I will say though that a player with that kind of a reputation (one that he flaunted a little too much in his book) will always be under the microscope in the eyes of the referee, so any loss of his temper will, most likely, result in a yellow at the very least.

Geez, all this agreeing with a United fan is making me queasy. Coach, we need to pick a fight with someone!

[Coach_McGuirk]

*sigh*

I know, I know. Actually, Prawn's comments are spot on, and for those of you who don't know, our pal Mr. Sandwich is quite a burr under the saddle of the "Pro-MLS/US will win the WC every year Freddy plays" crowd. In fact, I have actually JOINED him on some of his missions into Pro-MLS territory and lobbed a few grenades myself. Oh, the shame of it all!!

We DO need to pick a fight, but with who?? The Chelsea crowd don't come see us anymore, and the last manUre irritant, the loveable loublaze, has dissappeared alltogether.

Maybe we can rile some Italian supporters, or something...

[mixmastermatt]

at this rate our next big rivals will be real madrid, untill then we shall pick on inter milan suppoters!

prAwn sandwich I have read most of your comments on here and you are a real credit to man utd!

[50 Euro]

Originally posted by Coach_McGuirk
*sigh*

I know, I know. Actually, Prawn's comments are spot on, and for those of you who don't know, our pal Mr. Sandwich is quite a burr under the saddle of the "Pro-MLS/US will win the WC every year Freddy plays" crowd. In fact, I have actually JOINED him on some of his missions into Pro-MLS territory and lobbed a few grenades myself. Oh, the shame of it all!!

We DO need to pick a fight, but with who?? The Chelsea crowd don't come see us anymore, and the last manUre irritant, the loveable loublaze, has dissappeared alltogether.

Maybe we can rile some Italian supporters, or something...

Be careful what you ask for, pretty soon there'll be loads of people on this thread posting in all caps, in all red or some other color, mis-spelling the town they're from and/or towns, stadiums etc. throughout Europe, dropping F-bombs left and right, and generally displaying a lack of coherent thought, all before their third post...and then the ManUtd supporters will show up ;)

[Brodo]

[i] are you that happy that you are only 9 points clear?

[/B] Only 9! Only?

Yes I'm happy that we are ONLY 9 points clear.

[Prawn Sandwich]

Originally posted by Brodo
Only 9! Only?

Yes I'm happy that we are ONLY 9 points clear.

Really? Considering the way Man U have thrown games away this season you're really that happy?

Consider if Man U had beaten Fulham in both games this season as we should/would do when we are playing anywhere near our ability. Thats 5 points closer already.

Include the Wolves game which we should have won and Man U would only be 1 point behind Arsenal now.

These are all what if's - but they do illustrate my point. Considering the obvious difference in how the two teams are playing this season a 9 point gap is not that great. Take out a couple of refereeing decisions that have gone against us (Van Der Saar against Saha as a good example) and we would be right on your tails......

[runes777]

Originally posted by Prawn Sandwich
Really? Considering the way Man U have thrown games away this season you're really that happy?

Consider if Man U had beaten Fulham in both games this season as we should/would do when we are playing anywhere near our ability. Thats 5 points closer already.

Include the Wolves game which we should have won and Man U would only be 1 point behind Arsenal now.

These are all what if's - but they do illustrate my point. Considering the obvious difference in how the two teams are playing this season a 9 point gap is not that great. Take out a couple of refereeing decisions that have gone against us (Van Der Saar against Saha as a good example) and we would be right on your tails......

ok then Prawn,using your logic:
leicester,charlton,fulham,and bolton.thats 8 points more and using your example we are now 9 ahead again.i left out the manyoo,pompey,and everton draws cause i think we were lucky to get a point out of em.just making a point there prawn,dont get yer panties in a bunch.
ps-Mayo-Fields of Athenry on now,getting fired up for sat.

[Prawn Sandwich]

Originally posted by runes777
ok then Prawn,using your logic:
leicester,charlton,fulham,and bolton.thats 8 points more and using your example we are now 9 ahead again.i left out the manyoo,pompey,and everton draws cause i think we were lucky to get a point out of em.just making a point there prawn,dont get yer panties in a bunch.
ps-Mayo-Fields of Athenry on now,getting fired up for sat.

Fair point although that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

Arsenal are, by any reference point, having a very strong season - what else do you call an unbeaten run of this duration?

Man U, by contrast, are having a very poor season and yet are only 9 points behind - a mediocre display by the team in the games I mentioned would have bought us that much closer to you.

I just find it strange that when Arsenal have performed so well over the season that they are only 9 points clear of a team who are obviously having a mare.....

This is not a dig at Arsenal by any means - just an observation.

[The Singer]

Originally posted by Prawn Sandwich
Really? Considering the way Man U have thrown games away this season you're really that happy?

Consider if Man U had beaten Fulham in both games this season as we should/would do when we are playing anywhere near our ability. Thats 5 points closer already.

Include the Wolves game which we should have won and Man U would only be 1 point behind Arsenal now.

These are all what if's - but they do illustrate my point. Considering the obvious difference in how the two teams are playing this season a 9 point gap is not that great. Take out a couple of refereeing decisions that have gone against us (Van Der Saar against Saha as a good example) and we would be right on your tails......

[The Singer]

Apparently. We can all do "what if's" Fulham home, Bolton away, etc. etc. You've lost too many games, nuff said.

As for dodgy penalty desicions, what goes around , comes around. People who start picking up on the odd decisions rthoughout a long season are in desparation mode.

[yossarian]

Originally posted by Prawn Sandwich
Fair point although that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

Arsenal are, by any reference point, having a very strong season - what else do you call an unbeaten run of this duration?

Man U, by contrast, are having a very poor season and yet are only 9 points behind - a mediocre display by the team in the games I mentioned would have bought us that much closer to you.

I just find it strange that when Arsenal have performed so well over the season that they are only 9 points clear of a team who are obviously having a mare.....

This is not a dig at Arsenal by any means - just an observation.

I think the reason the difference is only 9 points is because the "mare" of which you speak didn't really start until Rio was suspended, right?
I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong ;) but didn't United start the season extremely strong? IIRC, everyone was amazed that all 3 (Chelsea, MU and Arsenal) started so strongly. If your "very poor season" had been so from the beginning the gap would be wider. Eehh, just my thoughts.

Regardless, after last year's debacle (yes, coupled with MU's impressive run, there I said it) I don't think very many Arsenal fans are counting this season as over. I know I won't feel confident until the day (when and if) the math makes it a done deal.

[Brodo]

Originally posted by Prawn Sandwich
Really? Considering the way Man U have thrown games away this season you're really that happy?

Consider if Man U had beaten Fulham in both games this season as we should/would do when we are playing anywhere near our ability. Thats 5 points closer already.

Include the Wolves game which we should have won and Man U would only be 1 point behind Arsenal now.

These are all what if's - but they do illustrate my point. Considering the obvious difference in how the two teams are playing this season a 9 point gap is not that great. Take out a couple of refereeing decisions that have gone against us (Van Der Saar against Saha as a good example) and we would be right on your tails...... Yes! Really, really, really happy! You would not believe how REALLY happy I am! I'm even happier that before because of all of your excuses.

And as for the "ifs". If my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle!

[martymarts]

I don't think we've played quite as well as we did for most of last season! The difference is the defence, and you could argue that that is down to the inspired addition of Kolo Toure?

I agree with Coach about the relationship between Arsenal and the media, but, just like the Charlton match, a little bit of complacency seems to be creeping in to our posts. Everyone is talking us up, just like they did last year, and Titi hit it on the head when he said that it doesn't matter how well we're playing, so far we've won nothing! Let's not talk about what we "deserve" or start congratulating ourselves just yet. The fat lady isn't even in the arena, let alone thinking about singing. Maybe at the end of March, when we've won all 3 EPL games, which includes ManUre, booked our place in the FA Cup Semi, beaten Celta Vigo and comprehensively won the first leg of our CL quarter final, then maybe, just maybe, we can start getting a little moist!