Is Portland's Team Now In Jeopardy?

[RedRover]

WTF? I thought Paulson had all his ducks lined up. Now comes this story in the Oregonian that says there's a gap in funds for the renovated PGE Park.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/financial_gap_could_block_socc.html

Would someone please explain?

[Sport Billy]

WTF? I thought Paulson had all his ducks lined up. Now comes this story in the Oregonian that says there's a gap in funds for the renovated PGE Park.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/03/financial_gap_could_block_socc.html

Would someone please explain?


Same here:

http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2009/03/30/story1.html?b=1238385600^1801211

But MLS will find a way to make it work - they have to.

If this would fall through combined with Philly's problems (which appear to be working out) MLS would take a huge credibility hit.

[BSGuy321]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/2009/03/soccergraphic.jpg

http://blog.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/2009/03/soccergraphic.jpg

[savier]

here's the thing about this news story, it deosn't have a lot of new news in it. this is all stuff that was known at the meeting when council voted in favor 3-2. the oregonian just chose to write this story because, well, i don't know. slow news day? they're trying to stir the pot.

don't worry, this isn't going to fail.

[zidja]

What's the worst case scenario here: That the stadium remodelling start gets delayed 5 years until bond markets improve or other financing methods come available? PGE park has been workable to the current Timbers/Beavers. Until things get sorted out, if you get stuck with things as they are now, you'd still have a better stadium situation than SJ, Boston, NY, DC, Houston, KC.

[RSwenson]

FWIW, a bunch of bonds for the stadium in Chester were sold not that long ago (in the midst of the crisis) and the sale went well.... these were perhaps somewhat different bonds, I don't know...

[Rowdies1965]

What did the scarf the Mayor was holding up say?

Not Smelling Pretty In The Rose City!!

Goes to show the lengths, Garber and the MLS would go to kill the USL!!!

[bright]

The truth is that the city is facing a lot of budget issues right now. Unemployment is higher than in other parts of the country, schools are threatened with closure, and the citizens have had to swallow a series of costly development boondoggles recently (not saying the PGE Park thing is a boondoggle, just establishing context). And a sad irony is that their current owner is a primary cause of our country's economic woes, of which Portland is bearing the brunt.

Additionally, a lot of people don't want the Beavers to move out of PGE Park. And a lot of people don't want Memorial Coliseum to be demolished because it is a historical building, and their long-time hockey team the Winterhawks won't have anywhere else to play. Some people have recommended that the Beavers remain in PGE Park after the upgrades, and let the Trailblazers figure out what to do with Memorial Coliseum, as they have long been tabbed to be the point-people for redeveloping the Rose Quarter.

I wish Portland posters would post about this stuff, because it is interesting news for everyone to hear. It is not trolling to talk about reality. I fervently hope it all works out in spite of the obstacles.

[The Marquis]

Ya know.

This is non-news. We have know all this since the city council vote. It's not even non-news it's just filler. I read that and was like "ok, and?" I never found anything different than what was taken out of the city council meeting. In fact there are some factual errors. It's still $15 million. The extra 11.8 million that is in there is the money Paulson is responsible for coming up with in other ways. That's something we've always known about.

Even then, the budget woes the city has had aren't as bad as originally projected and they have filled it apparently. So there really isn't anything on the end of the city to fluff this up. I guess the Oregonian has figured out where to get readers from.

[The Marquis]

The truth is that the city is facing a lot of budget issues right now. Unemployment is higher than in other parts of the country, schools are threatened with closure, and the citizens have had to swallow a series of costly development boondoggles recently (not saying the PGE Park thing is a boondoggle, just establishing context). And a sad irony is that their current owner is a primary cause of our country's economic woes, of which Portland is bearing the brunt.

Additionally, a lot of people don't want the Beavers to move out of PGE Park. And a lot of people don't want Memorial Coliseum to be demolished because it is a historical building, and their long-time hockey team the Winterhawks won't have anywhere else to play. Some people have recommended that the Beavers remain in PGE Park after the upgrades, and let the Trailblazers figure out what to do with Memorial Coliseum, as they have long been tabbed to be the point-people for redeveloping the Rose Quarter. There are lot of politics and budget issues at play here, and Portland people are not posting about it.

what? Schools aren't threatening to close, it's been announced that there will be no closures or shortened school years.

About 10 people want to Beavers to stay in PGE. They know it sucks for baseball, the only people who feel otherwise are the folks who have been watching the Beavs since they played at Vaugh Street Stadium.

Same goes for Memorial Coliseum. Even most Veterans, whom are the strongest group against tearing it down changed their tune when they heard the plan to build a new memorial with the Baseball stadium.

As for the Blazers... they can do nothing more than suggest and play hard ball... they don't own the land MC is on, they WANT IT, but the city owns it. The city wants to continue to own it. Hence the Baseball stadium.

As for Portland's economy, I won't argue with you, it SUCKS and I'll agree that Portland is feeling the brunt of H. Paulson's decisions (that were only decisions, not causes). As a state very little of that bail out money has helped Oregon, and we're hurting. Come July I may be among the now 11.5% unemployed. I guess we'll find out. Thank god I already have my Timbers season tickets.

[bright]

what? Schools aren't threatening to close, it's been announced that there will be no closures or shortened school years.

That's good to hear. We closed some schools in Seattle in recent years, and that pissed me off. I don't think a city can be "livable" without schools.

About 10 people want to Beavers to stay in PGE. They know it sucks for baseball, the only people who feel otherwise are the folks who have been watching the Beavs since they played at Vaugh Street Stadium.

Same goes for Memorial Coliseum. Even most Veterans, whom are the strongest group against tearing it down changed their tune when they heard the plan to build a new memorial with the Baseball stadium.

As for the Blazers... they can do nothing more than suggest and play hard ball... they don't own the land MC is on, they WANT IT, but the city owns it. The city wants to continue to own it. Hence the Baseball stadium.

I think it's more than 10 people. :) But that's just going by what I hear. Anyways, the point is that if the Beavers stayed at PGE Park, it would solve a lot of these problems. Memorial Coliseum stays, Winterhawks stay, Beavers remain at PGE, Blazers still in charge of Rose Quarter, less money for the city to spend, etc. That is extremely tempting to your everyday Portland taxpayer.

As for Portland's economy, I won't argue with you, it SUCKS and I'll agree that Portland is feeling the brunt of H. Paulson's decisions (that were only decisions, not causes). As a state very little of that bail out money has helped Oregon, and we're hurting. Come July I may be among the now 11.5% unemployed. I guess we'll find out. Thank god I already have my Timbers season tickets.

It's more than his decisions as Treasury Secretary, but that's for another thread. I hope the job thing works out for you. If you work in technology, PM me. I might be able to help you out.

[The Marquis]

The thing about the MC is that it's terrible. It wouldn't last 10 years no matter what. It REEKS, has large water spots on the ceiling, the seats close to the ice are... FOLDING CHAIRS, and the entire arena just looks BAD. Like not in a Key Arena according the NBA bad, like a Memorial Stadium (in Seattle) compared to Rio Tinto Stadium type bad. If it dies in 10 years and the city doesn't have something lined up to go in the same place, the Blazers get the land and the city loses the land. Not cool, the city wants the money that the land generates. I want that thing down, I have to transfer train to bus at it everyday and it is an eyesore.

[Fenerbace]

what? Schools aren't threatening to close, it's been announced that there will be no closures or shortened school years.

About 10 people want to Beavers to stay in PGE. They know it sucks for baseball, the only people who feel otherwise are the folks who have been watching the Beavs since they played at Vaugh Street Stadium.

Same goes for Memorial Coliseum. Even most Veterans, whom are the strongest group against tearing it down changed their tune when they heard the plan to build a new memorial with the Baseball stadium.

As for the Blazers... they can do nothing more than suggest and play hard ball... they don't own the land MC is on, they WANT IT, but the city owns it. The city wants to continue to own it. Hence the Baseball stadium.

As for Portland's economy, I won't argue with you, it SUCKS and I'll agree that Portland is feeling the brunt of H. Paulson's decisions (that were only decisions, not causes). As a state very little of that bail out money has helped Oregon, and we're hurting. Come July I may be among the now 11.5% unemployed. I guess we'll find out. Thank god I already have my Timbers season tickets.

That's pretty much all true.

It's understandable that people outside of Portland might get the wrong idea based on articles posted on BS. Clearly it's difficult to really understand what is going on from afar as evidenced by how people outside of Portland who often purport to know Portland's status get almost everything wrong (thanks for your clarifications above by the way).

If you really care to understand the situation in Portland, consider this:

- Some notorious big soccer posters search constantly for negative information about Portland and will post anything, ANYTHING they find
- Some journalists have to write articles from a particular angle, even in the face of no new information
- Other bottom feeding journalists write their own articles citing original articles that were written in the absence of information
- It takes work to understand the big picture, and it may be difficult to do from outside of Portland since all you have is BigSoccer and local news
- Some people in the Timbers army involved with MLStoPDX have regular conversations with city councilors and get the off-the-record comments that help us understand what is really going on.

Since everybody knows the national economy is tanking, the easiest articles to write without new facts are those that play into what people are predisposed to believe. And nobody is going to buy a paper with the headline "MLS BID UPDATE: Everything is cool, nothing new to report".

But if you still believe that everything negative about Portland's MLS bid printed in local papers is true, consider that the same source of the article cited in this thread printed an article entitled "PORTLAND'S BID PUT ON HOLD" less than 24 hours before the press conference for Portland's MLS announcement was confirmed publicly.

These guys continue to get it wrong:
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2009/03/vancouver_bc_gets_mls_team_por.html

[bright]

The thing about the MC is that it's terrible. It wouldn't last 10 years no matter what. It REEKS, has large water spots on the ceiling, the seats close to the ice are... FOLDING CHAIRS, and the entire arena just looks BAD. Like not in a Key Arena according the NBA bad, like a Memorial Stadium (in Seattle) compared to Rio Tinto Stadium type bad. If it dies in 10 years and the city doesn't have something lined up to go in the same place, the Blazers get the land and the city loses the land. Not cool, the city wants the money that the land generates. I want that thing down, I have to transfer train to bus at it everyday and it is an eyesore.

Can they keep the facade and remake the insides? We've done that here for a few buildings (not enough, IMHO). I think it looks both ugly and cool, and in fact is a good representation of architecture from the 50's/60's. I think the baseball stadium will be better for that area, but some people I have talked to don't agree. They think it's "iconic" and an important part of Portland history. I will ask them what they think about the land going to the Blazers after 10 years. That might change their tune.

[Paul Schmidt]

The Oregonian felt scooped by that Business Journal article (which also is an examination of old data), so they one-upped PBJ by questioning most of the financing.

Zero coupon bonds are, to me, the only issue... and I see what might be happening there. Merritt Paulson won't buy them, but someone who wants to be far away from the limelight might.

I also suspect that, if the state approves the tax diversion amendment (already enacted in case of Major League Baseball), that the $5 million Paulson saved on the entry fee might be applied against the $15 million gap at PGE Park, or the private funds that Paulson said he'd raise. While the article throws that private money into the question mark category, I tend to believe he already knows where it's mostly coming from, and won't say anything until the contracts are signed, if ever.

Bright, the Blazers provided a drawing with the ballpark in the MC spot, AND one where the arena bowl was gutted and PROBABLY is the site of their planned summer concert area. They want to make money off the Coliseum land, therefore they attack every concept proposed that's not theirs. They want urban renewal funds for the renovation, for that matter. Since they lie about the money they lose at the Rose Garden, I don't expect them to start bargaining in good faith anytime soon... and the city is probably in no mood to capitulate to them.

[RedRover]

- Some notorious big soccer posters search constantly for negative information about Portland and will post anything, ANYTHING they find
:confused: Do you think that's why I posted the article? I wanted Portland in MLS. When I saw it, I was concerned and wanted to know from people out in Oregon what was going on.

[Fenerbace]

:confused: Do you think that's why I posted the article? I wanted Portland in MLS. When I saw it, I was concerned and wanted to know from people out in Oregon what was going on.

No, I don't feel like you have achieved notoriety yet. ;) But seriously no I wasn't referring to you. I don't think that everybody that posts less than flattering information about Portland has an agenda - but some do and we all know who they are.

I think you've gone about it the right way - you got some information and looked for other sources to add context to it. That is the only way you get anything out of BS, but others see one article and assume it is gospel.

Carry on.

[falvo]

I herd on FSC last night that the whole thing is about to go up in smoke if they can't come up with 15 million and that the Paulson's didn't have the money, is this true?

[Paul Schmidt]

That's a load of crap IMO. He's said he's not providing the money... but he originally said he wasn't going to fund any part of the plan in the first place. He's a rather strong negotiator... but probably lacks a little patience.

[The Marquis]

He doesn't have much room for patience either to be honest. This is a quick done sucker to be sure. The city and Paulson have Until August 1st to figure out that 15 million.