Einmal Löwe--Immer Löwe (TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 IV [R]

[footyfan1]

Well lads (and lasses) enjoy your weekend. I am leaving in a few hours to commune with nature....and about 60 Cub Scouts and their families.:eek: Will be back after the match on Sunday so won't see me posting until later Sunday night my time. Enjoy your weekend wherever you are.:cool:


You have a great time out there with the kiddos too man!

[panicfc]

yeah have fun.

[Hobo]

Like Yaz, I could hit for power and average. And the Phillies were my first love in life dude. Philly is my hometown.

The Braves take out the champs? I don't think so.

We probably won't win again, but it won't be the Braves to take us out.

It'll be the US Government supported Mets!

If you're wondering how a Philly kid could be a Yaz/Red Sox fan too, I have family who live not far from Fenway and that is where my love for the Red Sox comes from.


I know you are a huge Phillies fan - a friendly ribbing between NL East fans. We can both hate the Mets.




That blows. This event should have taken place on Sunday at the AA........

Maybe it was a timing thing. According to the article that accompanied the article, Gregg flew to the USA on Thursday. The wife, with help from the club, is taking care of the move and bringing the kids in a month.
http://www.tsv1860.de/de/aktuell/news/2008/news_2009-04-01_int_berhalter.php

Wann geht es für dich über den großen Teich und wann kommt deine Familie nach?
Berhalter: Ich werde am Donnerstag in die USA fliegen, meine Familie kommt in etwa einem Monat nach. Meine Frau kümmert sich um den Umzug, auch beim Verein helfen mir alle mit den notwendigen Formalitäten, das ist super!

[footyfan1]

I know you are a huge Phillies fan - a friendly ribbing between NL East fans. We can both hate the Mets.

You're right about that. I'm calling them the "USA Mets", seeing that they are getting too much of our bailout funds through Citi Group! :mad:




Maybe it was a timing thing. According to the article that accompanied the article, Gregg flew to the USA on Thursday. The wife, with help from the club, is taking care of the move and bringing the kids in a month.

Yep! Thanks for the info!!

[goindownsouth]

Ummm... there is more than one Phillies fan on this thread...

[City Dave]

Ummm... there is more than one Phillies fan on this thread...

I don't follow baseball at all any more, but when I did, I was a Phillies fan. I always loved Mike Schmidt.

[Floormaster Squeeze]

I do not think anyone posted this but its HUGE news (and several days old):):

http://www.abendzeitung.de/sport/tsv_1860/96743

[LoewenBoy]

I do not think anyone posted this but its HUGE news (and several days old):):

http://www.abendzeitung.de/sport/tsv_1860/96743
ROFL....that would HAVE to be a April Fool's joke. Hell, I wish UH would have called those bafoons like a US radio show, taped the phone call saying, "Sure, we'll let you out of the contract...no hard feelings...." and string them along for 10 mins. Then yell out a big "april fools!!!!!".:cool:

[LoewenBoy]

Below are the kicker ratings for the match. I will most mine thoughts later but wanted to get this out first. I watched the whole match and have to say 1860 was PATHETIC!!!! If not for Hofmann they would have lost. Bender, Aigner, Schaeffler and Rosler we less than worthless. In fact, Roesler was so damn lazy we basically played with 10 men the whole first half....and I think Wolf knows it b/c he subbed him then. My big beef was Schaeffler. He was horrid....HORRID!!! I fully expected Kicker to flay him with a 6 (as well as Roesler) but he gets ANOTHER 5!!!! Just goes to show how off these ratings are. He was so horrendous that he looked every bit the amateur...no where NEAR his last performance...and yet, same rating?:eek::rolleyes::confused: I know they have different guys doing it each week, but stil.

Want further evidence Kicker is messed up? You guys know how I defend the referees but this guy was bad across the board, and equally so. Kicker rating? Wait for it........a 2!!!!! Heavens, did they SEE the same match?

1860 MünchenM. Hofmann (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/129/saison/2008-09) (3) - Ledgerwood (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/30995/saison/2008-09) (3,5), Thorandt (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/28409/saison/2008-09) (2,5), T. Hoffmann (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/1304/saison/2008-09) (3,5), Schick (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/45153/saison/2008-09) (4) - S. Bender (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/39194/saison/2008-09) (4,5) - Aigner (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/39574/saison/2008-09) (4), Johnson (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/34317/saison/2008-09) (3) - Rösler (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/21917/saison/2008-09) (5) - Lauth (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/25206/saison/2008-09) (2,5), Schäffler (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/43461/saison/2008-09) (5)

[footyfan1]

ROFL....that would HAVE to be a April Fool's joke. Hell, I wish UH would have called those bafoons like a US radio show, taped the phone call saying, "Sure, we'll let you out of the contract...no hard feelings...." and string them along for 10 mins. Then yell out a big "april fools!!!!!".:cool:


Definitely an April Fool's joke.

[footyfan1]

Below are the kicker ratings for the match. I will most mine thoughts later but wanted to get this out first. I watched the whole match and have to say 1860 was PATHETIC!!!! If not for Hofmann they would have lost. Bender, Aigner, Schaeffler and Rosler we less than worthless. In fact, Roesler was so damn lazy we basically played with 10 men the whole first half....and I think Wolf knows it b/c he subbed him then. My big beef was Schaeffler. He was horrid....HORRID!!! I fully expected Kicker to flay him with a 6 (as well as Roesler) but he gets ANOTHER 5!!!! Just goes to show how off these ratings are. He was so horrendous that he looked every bit the amateur...no where NEAR his last performance...and yet, same rating?:eek::rolleyes::confused: I know they have different guys doing it each week, but stil.

Want further evidence Kicker is messed up? You guys know how I defend the referees but this guy was bad across the board, and equally so. Kicker rating? Wait for it........a 2!!!!! Heavens, did they SEE the same match?

1860 MünchenM. Hofmann (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/129/saison/2008-09) (3) - Ledgerwood (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/30995/saison/2008-09) (3,5), Thorandt (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/28409/saison/2008-09) (2,5), T. Hoffmann (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/1304/saison/2008-09) (3,5), Schick (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/45153/saison/2008-09) (4) - S. Bender (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/39194/saison/2008-09) (4,5) - Aigner (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/39574/saison/2008-09) (4), Johnson (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/34317/saison/2008-09) (3) - Rösler (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/21917/saison/2008-09) (5) - Lauth (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/25206/saison/2008-09) (2,5), Schäffler (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/vereine/spielersteckbrief/object/43461/saison/2008-09) (5)


Dude, Kicker doesn't give out "6" ratings like "Bild" does. You have to really freakin' stink out a joint to get a "6" from Kicker.

It's like they don't hand out the "1s" like candy either, as "Bild" does.

I agree that especially Schaeffler and Roesler deserved 6's, but I thought they would get 5 or 5.5.

I don't agree with either of you on the ref. I would have given him a 4.

[LoewenBoy]

Dude, Kicker doesn't give out "6" ratings like "Bild" does. You have to really freakin' stink out a joint to get a "6" from Kicker.
Who mentioned Bild. We're talking Kicker and their consistency on ratings. How a guy can have a below average game and get a 5, then really stink up the joint and STILL get a 5 is just silly. That's like hitting my dog for being an average dog just like he whack him when he makes on the floor.:rolleyes: Denfend it all you like, its just stupid to rank someone the EXACT same when they had two TOTALLY DIFFERENT performances. I bet this guy thinks Sahara is a great movie like Casalblanca because they both take place in Africa. Specious reasoning at best.


I don't agree with either of you on the ref. I would have given him a 4.
No surprise there. Dude, he was negligent in many obvious and not-so-obvious ways. I know a friend that does evals for DFB refs and, I hear, the write up on this guy Sunday was less than stellar. Luckily, he was consistently bad across the board. If you watched the match, take a look at the look the Osnabrueck player gives him in the late second half when he give 1860 this pitiful direct kick 20m out. It was a criminally bad call and even the 1860 players were shaking their heads. The Osnabrueck players jsut glares at the ref. To borrow a Monty Python line, "If looks could kill he would have been sent away for 30 years."

[footyfan1]

Who mentioned Bild. We're talking Kicker and their consistency on ratings. How a guy can have a below average game and get a 5, then really stink up the joint and STILL get a 5 is just silly. That's like hitting my dog for being an average dog just like he whack him when he makes on the floor.:rolleyes: Denfend it all you like, its just stupid to rank someone the EXACT same when they had two TOTALLY DIFFERENT performances. I bet this guy thinks Sahara is a great movie like Casalblanca because they both take place in Africa. Specious reasoning at best.


Dude, I told you before the same person doesn't do the ratings each time. That's why they are so inconsistent. But I guess this doesn't matter when you're trying to be "right."

You ask who mentioned "Bild?" I mentioned "Bild."

I only mentioned "Bild" because those guys give out "1s" and "6s" like Halloween candy where as "Kicker" usually doesn't do so.

Which is why the "5s" aren't surprising.

And you're going off two different performances from YOUR point of view.

I thought Schaeffler was just as bad in the other match. You didn't.

It's all subjective. The guy rated from how he saw things not how you saw things.

As we all know, two people can watch the same thing and "see" it totally differently.



No surprise there. Dude, he was negligent in many obvious and not-so-obvious ways. I know a friend that does evals for DFB refs and, I hear, the write up on this guy Sunday was less than stellar. Luckily, he was consistently bad across the board. If you watched the match, take a look at the look the Osnabrueck player gives him in the late second half when he give 1860 this pitiful direct kick 20m out. It was a criminally bad call and even the 1860 players were shaking their heads. The Osnabrueck players jsut glares at the ref. To borrow a Monty Python line, "If looks could kill he would have been sent away for 30 years."


I would have given him the "4" because I've seen worse and I would save "5s" and "6s" for those "performances."

I would have given him a "4" because these days German refs are pretty f#ckin' bad on average.

[LoewenBoy]

Dude, I told you before the same person doesn't do the ratings each time. That's why they are so inconsistent. But I guess this doesn't matter when you're trying to be "right."
Said the pot to the kettle.....

Look, I think I acknowledged as much when I made my statement. My point was that if you (Kicker) are going to go around providing "ratings" for players you should have some methodology and a process for at least some semblemnce of consistency. If not, Kicker should just stop, because to rate Schaefler the same from last game to this game is an insult to the term "he sucked". He was worse than sucky, he was downright amateurish.


I only mentioned "Bild" because those guys give out "1s" and "6s" like Halloween candy where as "Kicker" usually doesn't do so.
And appearently Kicker hands out "5s" the same way. Or is that their default when they have nothing to say of substance?

I thought Schaeffler was just as bad in the other match. You didn't. It's all subjective. The guy rated from how he saw things not how you saw things. As we all know, two people can watch the same thing and "see" it totally differently.
Actually it's not all that subjective unless you want it to be. The scouting form used to rate players (which most clubs have their scouts and assistants fill out each match) is actually all quite quantitative. It's not like the apparent Ouji Board that Kicker uses. Many clubs use software programs that track things like player positioning, failed passes, poor marking, shots, touches, location, etc. to further evaluate execution of tactics and player development/performance. I have seen results from this software and it is quite compelling and allows coaches to evaulate players better. But even a trained scouts can do that in his head and on paper fairly well. So, no experienced person watching Schaefler between last match and this match would rate him the same. Lay-people would perhaps, but not some one objectively and quantitatively evaluating him. That is simply impossible. He just sucked badly last match.


I would have given him a "4" because these days German refs are pretty f#ckin' bad on average.
Well, his consistency of being really bad and calling non-existent fouls would be a 5 in my book. The DFB rating was slightly unflattering and would indicate a 4,5 if done by Kicker.

[footyfan1]

Said the pot to the kettle.....

No denials here. How do you think I realized what you're doing? ;)



Look, I think I acknowledged as much when I made my statement. My point was that if you (Kicker) are going to go around providing "ratings" for players you should have some methodology and a process for at least some semblemnce of consistency. If not, Kicker should just stop, because to rate Schaefler the same from last game to this game is an insult to the term "he sucked". He was worse than sucky, he was downright amateurish.


And Garry, many thought he was "downright amateurish" in the other match. YOU just don't agree.

Dude, I'm the first to say that Kicker's ratings aren't the gospel, but as far as a respected rating tool in the German media, they are it.


No one says they are perfect, but to quote Don Rumsfeld, "You go to war with what you've got......"


Check that. Impire's ratings might be a bit better, but you have to pay them to get their ratings directly or wait for the SportBild on Wednesday. And I don't remember if they do that for the 2. Liga.


And appearently Kicker hands out "5s" the same way. Or is that their default when they have nothing to say of substance?

They save their 6s for the very worst performances. Those guys were horrible and I would have had nothing against their getting 6s.

But I knew Kicker wouldn't do that because like me, they've seen worse.

In the case of Schaeffler, was it a bit inconsistent? Possibly. Depends of your opinion of the other matches.

But you know why that is....



Actually it's not all that subjective unless you want it to be. The scouting form used to rate players (which most clubs have their scouts and assistants fill out each match) is actually all quite quantitative. It's not like the apparent Ouji Board that Kicker uses. Many clubs use software programs that track things like player positioning, failed passes, poor marking, shots, touches, location, etc. to further evaluate execution of tactics and player development/performance. I have seen results from this software and it is quite compelling and allows coaches to evaulate players better. But even a trained scouts can do that in his head and on paper fairly well. So, no experienced person watching Schaefler between last match and this match would rate him the same. Lay-people would perhaps, but not some one objectively and quantitatively evaluating him. That is simply impossible. He just sucked badly last match.


So with this miracle software, there will be no more scouting errors??

Every signing every club who has that software makes will be successful??



The guys at "Kicker" are freakin' reporters, not scouts.

You know what I've found out from getting to know more than a few football reporters over here?

Many of them aren't as knowledgeable on the game as you or I. I'd venture to say most of them aren't as knowledgeable. A couple still call me for opinions.

Don't assume they are more knowledgeable just because Kicker, "Bild", tz, or even maybe 1860 signs their paychecks.

As I said, for ratings in the German Media, Kicker is it unless you get the Impire numbers.

I know. Perhaps you can get a copy of the miracle software and sell your own ratings to the media outlets. :D





Well, his consistency of being really bad and calling non-existent fouls would be a 5 in my book. The DFB rating was slightly unflattering and would indicate a 4,5 if done by Kicker.

You could be right, they could be right. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.

[LoewenBoy]

And Garry, many thought he was "downright amateurish" in the other match. YOU just don't agree.
Am just going to say two things: 1) the boy got one hell of ass chewing and, 2) the internal report on him was le miserable.:cool:

[footyfan1]

Am just going to say two things: 1) the boy got one hell of ass chewing and, 2) the internal report on him was le miserable.:cool:

No prob! :D

[LoewenBoy]

This one was fan reactions (http://www.eyep.tv/beitrag/2-bundesliga/video/zwiespaeltige-fanmeinungen.html). The last guy really laid it out blaming the players and management. Basically it started as a rant and then ended with him saying that management needs to do something to avoid always having to sell out best players just to pay the rent.
This one was the coach's response after the game (http://www.eyep.tv/beitrag/2-bundesliga/video/die-trainer-nach-dem-remis.html). Basically both coaches said their teams did not get the job done. Osnabrueck's coach was less dissappointed with his team's performance than Wolf was.
Interview with Wolf and the fan reporter (http://www.eyep.tv/beitrag/2-bundesliga/video/fanreporterin-steffi-interviewed-uwe-wolf.html). He was very kind to her as you can see. Was asked of the current players which one would make a good trainer....reply? Gregg Berhalter.

[goindownsouth]

FCB fans area bit cranky tonight... I am not all too sure why.

;)

[footyfan1]

FCB fans area bit cranky tonight... I am not all too sure why.

;)


Yes, but it doesn't make that comment you made on the match thread any less ridiculous...... :rolleyes: