Einmal Löwe--Immer Löwe (TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 IV [R]

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

So I hear you've signed Kiraly... my condolences :p

[footyfan1]

Here's the transfermarkt blurb (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/news/28039/kiraly-zu-1860-muenchen.html).


Read it after I made my post. Thanks man.



I agreed it sucks big time for Hoffmann as this CLEARLY signals he is done. Tschauner has to be pissed too as he was being brought up as the keeper of the future. Studying under a guy like Kiraly could be good for him.

I don't know how Garry. As I've said, I've always liked Kiraly, but I've always thought he was more of a "good character" than he was a "good goalkeeper."

There is a reason he wound up on-loan at Leverkusen to back up Adler from a then-second division English club who went on to win promotion to the Premiership without Kiraly.

Hell, while Kiraly has the experience, Tschauner might possibly be the better keeper at the moment.

I think 1860 would have been better off keeping Michi Hofmann. I think Stevic just saw a chance to bring in a "name" and did it.

Again, I've always liked Kiraly, but a photo of him should be next to the word "has-been" in the dictionary.


I hope like hell Hoffmann is given an great send off and a job with 1860. but knowing these bafoons they will likely give him the porcelin lion and send him on his way. This guy deserves a HUGE abschiedspiel.

Knowing these buffoons, they'll probably tell Hofmann to kiss the porcelain lion's ass on the way out. :mad:

I agree that he man deserves a serious abschiedspiel. One with Bayern and not someone like FCN or Unterhaching.

[LoewenBoy]

[QUOTE=footyfan1;17853209I don't know how Garry. As I've said, I've always liked Kiraly, but I've always thought he was more of a "good character" than he was a "good goalkeeper."Again, I've always liked Kiraly, but a photo of him should be next to the word "has-been" in the dictionary.[/QUOTE]

Man you have been a BVB fan too long and your standards are WAY too high. Remember our options:

Keep a 37 year-old keeper as your #1 for one more year.
Make a 24 year-old keeper prone to patzers your #1.
Move a U23 keeper with no 2.BL experience into your #1 or #2.
Get a good, young keeper like Watke (fat chance).
Get a "has-been".
Ger a "never-was".
Looking at them apples I have to give credit to Stevic on this one as much as PAINS me to do it. Kiraly does have experience (http://www.fussballdaten.de/spieler/kiralygabor/). He is younger than Michi. He ain't the best but he is certainly better than Tschauner. My BIGGEST concern with him is how much field time he has had on a competitive level since 2007. Unclear how many games he has seen recently.

Oh well, there it is.

[LoewenBoy]

Paul Thomik (http://www.fussballdaten.de/spieler/thomikpaul/) is in talks iwth 1860. I have two issues with him: 1) he seems to be injured alot, and 2) he plays right wing mostly and would compete with Aigner whom I think has done well there.
Ivica Majstorovic (http://www.fussballdaten.de/spieler/majstorovicivica/), yet another Panionos Athens player looks to be in talks with 1860 too. A former 'haching defender, he went to Athens back when Lienen took over the club.
Goran Sukalo (http://www.fussballdaten.de/spieler/sukalogoran/) (27, TuS Koblenz) is also rumored to be a target. The guy only had 15 games at Koblenz so makes me wonder why we are going after him. It ain't like he was a needed playmaker. I mean, if he was, why would a team like TuS sit him for more than half the season when they were in trouble? Go figure.
Grigorios ­Makos (http://www.fussballdaten.de/spieler/makosgrigorios/) is still on the table and wants to come to 1860. The problem is that Other Greek teams want him and the transfer is 1.4m. So, unless 1860 ponies up the 1.4m he ain't coming.
BTW regarding Michi Hofmann, Stevic is quoted as saying, "We need experience in our second team as well where someone like Michi could come in handy." If I were Hofmann I will tell that like bastard where he could stick his idea!!!:mad::mad::mad:

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Unclear how many games he has seen recently.

0.

He's been a sub at both his last two clubs.

Dunno man, I love the guy but your side will be conceding some real blooper goals next season.

I am not sure that he is better than Tschauner.

[footyfan1]

Man you have been a BVB fan too long and your standards are WAY too high. Remember our options:

Keep a 37 year-old keeper as your #1 for one more year.
Make a 24 year-old keeper prone to patzers your #1.
Move a U23 keeper with no 2.BL experience into your #1 or #2.
Get a good, young keeper like Watke (fat chance).
Get a "has-been".
Ger a "never-was".
Looking at them apples I have to give credit to Stevic on this one as much as PAINS me to do it. Kiraly does have experience (http://www.fussballdaten.de/spieler/kiralygabor/). He is younger than Michi. He ain't the best but he is certainly better than Tschauner. My BIGGEST concern with him is how much field time he has had on a competitive level since 2007. Unclear how many games he has seen recently.

Oh well, there it is.


Dude, my standards are not too high. I don't think as if I'm running BVB here. I KNOW what Sechzig's status is here and I know what's out there and I'm telling you they could have done better than Kiraly.

Perhaps you don't want see how much of a boneheaded move this COULD be because you don't want it to be.

I told you, it should tell you something that Kiraly wasn't good enough to earn even a freakin' BACKUP spot on a second-division English team last season.

He got loaned to Leverkusen as basically just a "body" to back up Adler should he have ever gotten injured and Adler would have had to have broken his neck or leg for Kiraly to have seen action.

Oh. By the way. Kiraly's last appearance in a top-level competitive match was for Aston Villa in goalless draw against Chelsea on 2 JANUARY 2007.

Kiraly LOST HIS JOB after a series of bad matches for Burnley in the English 2nd Division last season.

His last league starting appearance for Burnley was a 3-1 loss at home against Wolverhampton on 15 March 2008.

And before that, he'd already been benched for 12 matches.

This season, they earned promotion to the Premiership after dumping Kiraly.

Dude, I hope Kiraly goes out there and proves me dead wrong, but all the evidence I can find points to this being a big boneheaded move on Stevic's part.

Talk about Hofmann's age all you want, but we KNOW what he can do.

Kiraly is a freakin' crap shoot at best. A crap shoot who had exactly ZERO appearances this past season for a second division English club and Bayer Leverkusen.

Again, talk about Hofmann's age all you want, but again, we KNOW what he can do.......

Do you really think "experience" is going to trump actual remaining playing ability for a guy who was so bad he got dumped by an English second division club?

I think you are so starved to give Sechzig (not necessarily Stevic) credit for something that you ignore certain pieces of evidence.

Again, I used to be a fan of this guy, but I wouldn't want him in goal for my freakin' amateur team.

I also think it says something that a fan of Hungarian football and Hungarian football players (Vfbstuttgartfan) offered you his CONDOLENCES on the signing..........

EDIT: Here's a blurb from Kiraly's Burnley profile:

The Hungarian keeper battled with Brian Jensen for Burnley's number 1 jersey throughout the 2007/08 season.

Gabor played most of the season in goal for the Clarets, including the FA Cup tie with Arsenal at Turf Moor in January 2008. However, after a run of poor results, Jensen was the preferred choice in goal over the former Crystal Palace keeper.

In May 2008, Owen Coyle confirmed he would listen to offers for Kiraly, admitting he could leave the club should the right opportunity arise.


And what does it say that the best offer they got for such an "experienced" keeper was a loan deal for him to be a "bench body" in Leverkusen??

[footyfan1]

0.

He's been a sub at both his last two clubs.

Dunno man, I love the guy but your side will be conceding some real blooper goals next season.

I am not sure that he is better than Tschauner.



We feel the same way man.

[LoewenBoy]

Dunno man, I love the guy but your side will be conceding some real blooper goals next season. I am not sure that he is better than Tschauner.

I also think it says something that a fan of Hungarian football and Hungarian football players (Vfbstuttgartfan) offered you his CONDOLENCES on the signing..........
I am certainly not discounting you analysis of Kiraly. But having seen Tschauner make some serious patzer....and frequently....over the last two years, I will take experience + patzers over inexperience + patzers any day.

Look at this this way...if it turns out to be a bone-headed signing we already have Tschauner. What harm could it do? It's not like Stevic was going after anyone else.

Also, remember, 1860 has a habit of taking past-prime players and doing alright by them. Plus, as I said earlier, it is not like we had a ton of options.

[footyfan1]

I am certainly not discounting you analysis of Kiraly. But having seen Tschauner make some serious patzer....and frequently....over the last two years, I will take experience + patzers over inexperience + patzers any day.

Look at this this way...if it turns out to be a bone-headed signing we already have Tschauner. What harm could it do? It's not like Stevic was going after anyone else.

Also, remember, 1860 has a habit of taking past-prime players and doing alright by them. Plus, as I said earlier, it is not like we had a ton of options.

You had more options than you think. The transfer window has quite a way to go before the end.

It's not like Sechzig is going to camp tomorrow.

Oh, guess who else is available on a free??

Your boy Simon Jentzsch. I would have understood taking a chance with him more than this Kiraly signing.

At least Jentzsch's "experience" includes 1860........

Garry, I respect you and I hope I'm wrong for Sechzig's sake, but I also feel you're in some denial too.

[LoewenBoy]

Garry, I respect you and I hope I'm wrong for Sechzig's sake, but I also feel you're in some denial too.
Huh? How exactly am I in denial? I know Kiraly is not Oliver Kahn, but it's not like he is a total, abolsute f$ck up either. I know Tschauner is about the same as Kiraly. I know Jenztsch is available....but the rumors around his mental state and attitude are not good. Dude, it's not like I am delluded and think this is like signing Adler or anything. I KNOW this is chump change. BUT, when you have ZERO $$$ and the repuration our current mgmt does, this just may be THE BEST we can do.

[footyfan1]

Huh? How exactly am I in denial? I know Kiraly is not Oliver Kahn, but it's not like he is a total, abolsute f$ck up either.


Garry, I've gotten hold of friends over in England and the guy I trust the most talking to about players said, "1860 have just made a terrible mistake. This guy couldn't keep a job at Burnley or anywhere else because he is simply HORRIBLE. He is so horrible, third division clubs wanted no part of him."

You say "he isn't a total, absolute f#ck up."

All the evidence I can find says that's exactly what he is these days.


HOPEFULLY, all Kiraly needs is a change of scenery, but even the guys I know into Hungarian football say Kiraly is done.

Dude, I hope they are wrong, but I'm not going to deny what I've been able to find out.

There's a reason this guy had ZERO appearances last season. Even my Leverkusen buds said Adler would have had to been hit by a truck during a match for Kiraly to see action.



I know Tschauner is about the same as Kiraly.

I don't think so. I think you're just down on Tschauner. Tschauner is no starter who gives me any confidence, but he does have some upside. Very little, but he does have some.

Kiraly has none! And while Tschauner is no keeper who gives reason for confidence, from all I can find on him over the past few years, neither is Kiraly.

You're not getting the Kiraly of the 90s, you're getting what he is now.

And by most accounts, he's f#cking horrible now.


I know Jenztsch is available....but the rumors around his mental state and attitude are not good. Dude, it's not like I am delluded and think this is like signing Adler or anything. I KNOW this is chump change. BUT, when you have ZERO $$$ and the repuration our current mgmt does, this just may be THE BEST we can do.

You started this thing by accusing me of having "too high standards" because I'm a BVB fan. Dude, I think your standards are too low because you're bummed about the club's overall status at the moment. I also believe you're so tired of bad news, you want something to be good.

I'm only giving you what I am finding out. I think Kiraly's performance, or should I say, lack of performance, over the past few years speaks volumes and speaks for itself.

I'm sorry it isn't what you want to read, but this is what is out there about the guy Garry.

And take it from me, 1860 could have done better. All it takes is a bit of patience. Even when you have no money.

This is Germany man. Decent keepers grow on f#cking trees here. They just aren't all "name players."

I think Stevic just wanted to get some kind of "name" in the "In" column instead of just staring at the young talents names who are in the "out" column.

And he knew he had to get someone of some reputation if he's going to shove Michi Hofmann out the door because of it.

Oh yeah. Guess who Jentzsch is rumored to be in talks with?

You got it. FC AUGSBURG! LMAO!! :D

[footyfan1]

BTW, Transfermarkt.de quotes a local Wolfsburg paper as saying Armin Veh is interested in buying Fabian Johnson........

Click here (http://www.waz-online.de/Wolfsburg/WAZ-Sport/VfL-Wolfsburg/VfL-will-60-Talent) for the original Wolfsburg area article.

[LoewenBoy]

BTW, Transfermarkt.de quotes a local Wolfsburg paper as saying Armin Veh is interested in buying Fabian Johnson........

Click here (http://www.waz-online.de/Wolfsburg/WAZ-Sport/VfL-Wolfsburg/VfL-will-60-Talent) for the original Wolfsburg area article.
If true they better splash the cash.

All I am going to say on Kiraly is I am keeping an open mind, which you always say to do, about the guy. I am not going to villify him before he steps between the pipes. AFTER he has some games under his belt I will make up my mind.

But again, I don't see anywhere where I have delluded myself into thinking we are getting a "top" keeper.

[footyfan1]

If true they better splash the cash.

I don't see where they'd "better" do anything. Especially if 1860's cash situation is as bad as we think it is.

Beggars can't be choosers.

They won't pay 4M for Johnson. I like the kid, but anyone paying 4M for him is an idiot.


All I am going to say on Kiraly is I am keeping an open mind, which you always say to do, about the guy. I am not going to villify him before he steps between the pipes. AFTER he has some games under his belt I will make up my mind.

Dude, I'm telling you what I found out about him. That's it. I didn't say he would suck for Sechzig, I said I believe Sechzig can do better.

That is my opinion based on the evidence I have been able to find.

I told you, I've always LIKED Kiraly, but when the majority of people I trust and who are usually right about players they follow tell me the guy is "horrible", I tend to believe them.

They could be wrong. I could be wrong. I've even said I HOPE I AM WRONG, but at this moment, I know what opinion the evidence supports.




But again, I don't see anywhere where I have delluded myself into thinking we are getting a "top" keeper.

Where did I ever say that? That is you putting your meaning to my words again. I said I thought you are in denial. Yes, no doubt I said that.

But I feel you're in denial about the evidence being put forward that Kiraly has been an awful goalkeeper in the RECENT past.

I don't think I said anywhere that you were "deluding yourself into think you are getting a top keeper."

I never said anything of the sort. You did.

[LoewenBoy]

But I feel you're in denial about the evidence being put forward that Kiraly has been an awful goalkeeper in the RECENT past.
Pause.....and actually READ my posts.

I KNOW he is not great. Hell, I KNOW he may not even be good.

My comment was an experienced, sucky, accident prone GK MAY BE BETTER than the inexperienced, sucky, accident prone GK we have. That's all I said. And I refuse to look at a guys record and condemn his as a disaster simply because of that. Hell, by those standards Lauth would not even be in the picture. And no, I am not comparing EXACTLY Lauth to Kiraly. But Lauth was written off too and look what HE did for 1860.

If Kiraly comes in and does even HALF of what Benny has done for us this season, he will have earned his keep. If he totally f-s it up, then we have Tschauner to pick up the pieces.

[Lionhead]

Garry, I've gotten hold of friends over in England and the guy I trust the most talking to about players said, "1860 have just made a terrible mistake. This guy couldn't keep a job at Burnley or anywhere else because he is simply HORRIBLE. He is so horrible, third division clubs wanted no part of him."

You say "he isn't a total, absolute f#ck up."

Dude, I hope they are wrong, but I'm not going to deny what I've been able to find out.


I don't think so. I think you're just down on Tschauner. Tschauner is no starter who gives me any confidence, but he does have some upside. Very little, but he does have some.

Kiraly has none! And while Tschauner is no keeper who gives reason for confidence, from all I can find on him over the past few years, neither is Kiraly.

You're not getting the Kiraly of the 90s, you're getting what he is now.

And by most accounts, he's f#cking horrible now.




You started this thing by accusing me of having "too high standards" because I'm a BVB fan. Dude, I think your standards are too low because you're bummed about the club's overall status at the moment. I also believe you're so tired of bad news, you want something to be good.

I'm only giving you what I am finding out. I think Kiraly's performance, or should I say, lack of performance, over the past few years speaks volumes and speaks for itself.

I'm sorry it isn't what you want to read, but this is what is out there about the guy Garry.

And take it from me, 1860 could have done better. All it takes is a bit of patience. Even when you have no money.

This is Germany man. Decent keepers grow on f#cking trees here. They just aren't all "name players."

I think Stevic just wanted to get some kind of "name" in the "In" column instead of just staring at the young talents names who are in the "out" column.

And he knew he had to get someone of some reputation if he's going to shove Michi Hofmann out the door because of it.

Oh yeah. Guess who Jentzsch is rumored to be in talks with?

You got it. FC AUGSBURG! LMAO!! :D

o man you're soo right! Everybody gets what he deserves. What in f#ucks name is wrong with Lienen? Kiraly f#ucked up when he was with Hertha and that's ages ago. He certainly didn't get any better. If for the sake of signing a big name why didn't the get some useful player. I would rank Hofmann AND Tschauner way above Kiraly in the present state.:mad:

[footyfan1]

Pause.....and actually READ my posts.

I KNOW he is not great. Hell, I KNOW he may not even be good.

My comment was an experienced, sucky, accident prone GK MAY BE BETTER than the inexperienced, sucky, accident prone GK we have. That's all I said. And I refuse to look at a guys record and condemn his as a disaster simply because of that. Hell, by those standards Lauth would not even be in the picture. And no, I am not comparing EXACTLY Lauth to Kiraly. But Lauth was written off too and look what HE did for 1860.

If Kiraly comes in and does even HALF of what Benny has done for us this season, he will have earned his keep. If he totally f-s it up, then we have Tschauner to pick up the pieces.


Dude, I do read your posts.

And there is one thing you keep omitting during this conversation that is still relevant to the conversation.

What makes getting Kiraly better than just sticking with Hofmann and Tschauner?

What do you see that makes Kiraly better than Hofmann? I know you said "experience" before, but Kiraly's recent "experience" shows he's been worse than Tschauner.

You bring up Lauth too. Totally different situation. Lauth was written off at the TOP LEVEL, not written off altogether.

It's not like Lauth where he was still getting playing time in the 1st Bundesliga and doing nothing with it.

Kiraly couldn't make it in the English 2nd Division man!

And according to the people I asked, Burnley's fortunes got much better after he was dumped. Burnley fans said the goalkeeper change played a huge role in their upturn.

I guess it didn't help me that the Leverkusen fans said Adler would have had to have been hit by a truck during a match for Kiraly to see playing time and that Kiraly was "just an experienced body" they wanted to have on the roster.

Seeing that all Leverkusen has after Adler are two young, inexperienced keepers, I think that speaks volumes about Kiraly's actual worth at this time.

Sorry, but all that speaks to me. You say you get it and that I should read your posts.

I suggest you go back and read a few of them yourself man. I'm responding to what I'm reading.

But you know, it's neither here nor there. The signing is done and when the season starts we'll both been cheering for him like he is Oliver Kahn.........

[LoewenBoy]

Dude, I do read your posts.
Clearly not all of the words in my posts.:D

What makes getting Kiraly better than just sticking with Hofmann and Tschauner?
That is not the point. Only Michi Hofmann thinks that was EVER a possibility. Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE the man!!! But I truly do not think Stevic EVER intended on extending with Michi for the first team. I think in Stevic's mind that there was only ever one option: Namely, get a new, experienced, younger-than-Michi for #1. I also think Stevic is not going to let Tschauner go b/c of his existing contract. Hence, Michi became the leverage.

This conversation reminds me of this famous scene. Hofmann is out of contract soon, so I can clearly not choose the Torwart in front you. But Tschauner has had a few obvious patzer, so I can clearly not choose the Torwart of me.

You can be Cary Elwes, I will be Wallace Shawn. :D

YouTube - Princess Bride

[footyfan1]

That is not the point. Only Michi Hofmann thinks that was EVER a possibility. Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE the man!!! But I truly do not think Stevic EVER intended on extending with Michi for the first team. I think in Stevic's mind that there was only ever one option: Namely, get a new, experienced, younger-than-Michi for #1. I also think Stevic is not going to let Tschauner go b/c of his existing contract. Hence, Michi became the leverage.


"A new, experienced, younger-than-Michi" and by all accounts, ALREADY WASHED UP keeper.

Kiraly might be "younger", but by all accounts is already WASHED UP.

And Garry, I didn't ask you what Stevic was thinking. I asked YOU why wouldn't it have been better or just as good to stick with the current two?

I already know neither one of us can explain Stevic's head up his ass "thinking......."



This conversation reminds me of this famous scene. Hofmann is out of contract soon, so I can clearly not choose the Torwart in front you. But Tschauner has had a few obvious patzer, so I can clearly not choose the Torwart of me.

You can be Cary Elwes, I will be Wallace Shawn. :D




Never saw it and no thank you.......

[footyfan1]

From a "Bild" article:


1860 München is particularly interested in buying Rukavina. However, the two clubs have not come to a financial agreement for Rukavina, who was bought by Dortmund during the winter transfer period of the 2007-2008 season for 2.3M Euros.


Word is that in exchange for Rukavina, Borussia Dortmund wants just under 2M Euros and right of first refusal on 20-year old 1860 midfield talent Sven Bender. Bender, who is under contract to 1860 through the end of the coming season, could step into Tinga’s midfield role at BVB.