Einmal Löwe--Immer Löwe (TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 IV [R]

[Hobo]

Hey LB, I was flipping through the channels last night and watched Blickpunkt Sport on BR.

They had Wildmoser in the studio and thought you might want to hear his wise words :D
http://www.br-online.de/imperia/md/audio/podcast/blickpunkt-sport/2009-05/20090511_bs_wildmoser.mp3

Karl-Heinz Wildmoser, ehemaliger Präsident des TSV 1860 München, zur derzeitigen Situation bei den Münchner Löwen und darüber, warum mit ihm alles anders gekommen wäre.

Here are the rest of the segments from the show.
http://www.br-online.de/podcast/mp3-download/bayerisches-fernsehen/mp3-download-podcast-blickpunkt-sport.shtml

[LoewenBoy]

Hey LB, I was flipping through the channels last night and watched Blickpunkt Sport on BR.

They had Wildmoser in the studio and thought you might want to hear his wise words :D
http://www.br-online.de/imperia/md/audio/podcast/blickpunkt-sport/2009-05/20090511_bs_wildmoser.mp3

Karl-Heinz Wildmoser, ehemaliger Präsident des TSV 1860 München, zur derzeitigen Situation bei den Münchner Löwen und darüber, warum mit ihm alles anders gekommen wäre.

Here are the rest of the segments from the show.
http://www.br-online.de/podcast/mp3-download/bayerisches-fernsehen/mp3-download-podcast-blickpunkt-sport.shtml
Thanks dude. I had heard him on his 75th b-day celebration going on about how the club does not have the self confidence anymore and how they continue annual "witch hunts" for blame rather than fixing actual problems. In that aspect he is right.

I know the guy is rightly villified for driving the club into financial ruin, but on the commercial side (apart from finances) he had the right attitude. I wish at least THAT aspect of him would stay with the club. Reuter was trying to bring that back but the "blame storming" mentality of the club and the leadership seems to wreck that every year. EVERY damn year.:mad:

[Hobo]

Thanks dude. I had heard him on his 75th b-day celebration going on about how the club does not have the self confidence anymore and how they continue annual "witch hunts" for blame rather than fixing actual problems. In that aspect he is right.

I know the guy is rightly villified for driving the club into financial ruin, but on the commercial side (apart from finances) he had the right attitude. I wish at least THAT aspect of him would stay with the club. Reuter was trying to bring that back but the "blame storming" mentality of the club and the leadership seems to wreck that every year. EVERY damn year.:mad:

What is Wildmoser's and Stevic's connection? He seems to like him, but is glad everybody else, including Reuter, is gone.

[LoewenBoy]

What is Wildmoser's and Stevic's connection? He seems to like him, but is glad everybody else, including Reuter, is gone.
Stevic was one of the players Wildmoser, through Lorant, picked up back when KHW was president.

Wildmoser is glad Reuter is gone because Reuter had common sense. KHW likes people who have a more laissez-faire attitude to finances and other things. He does not like to be told "no" and does not like to see reality; preferring to mortgage our future for short-term gain. He would make a great politician.

The book Atlas Shrugged comes to mind. Wildmoser would be the quintessential Ann Ryand character depicting the "head in the sand" mentality the "do nothings" portray.

[goindownsouth]

Per soccernet.com...

Tschauner
Hoffmann, Ghvinianidze, Beda, Schick
Rukavina, Rösler, Johnson, Ledgerwood
Lauth, Schäffler

[LoewenBoy]

Per soccernet.com...

Tschauner
Hoffmann, Ghvinianidze, Beda, Schick
Rukavina, Rösler, Johnson, Ledgerwood
Lauth, Schäffler

From 1860 site. I think they are done with Rukavina as a midfielder. the line-up above has FAR too many people playing out of position: Beda is a disaster at central defense, as is Hofmann outside. Rukavina is FAR more dangerous in defense and Ledgerwood and Johnson are switched. Roesler does NOT have the fortitude to play central mid right now. the line-up below makes a ton more sense, however, I think you see Roesler come in as a Joker and Schaefler starts.

http://www.tsv1860.de/media/images/2_saison/2008_2009/aufstellungen/wehen-1860_neu.jpg

[Lionhead]

All very true.

The one very depressing statistic is that there is ONLY 1 team that has had a worse spring than us and that is Wehen. EVERYONE else in that pack of 4-5 teams has had a better spring AND a better last few games. My biggest fear is that Wehen break their bad streak and beat us.:(

After sitting in AA on Friday and watching this disastreous performance I have to agree with you. I wouldn't be surprised if Wehen beat us well......:(

[LoewenBoy]

After sitting in AA on Friday and watching this disastreous performance I have to agree with you. I wouldn't be surprised if Wehen beat us well......:(
Good to see you back.

Dude, I suffered through that game. The first 20 mins were very exciting and nice to see. But then that corner, with no one marking ANYONE, and the equalizer you could see Abstiegsangst pur. It was really sad to see. No freak'n heart at all. Tschauner was miserable, just horrid. Makes we wonder why we don't just play with 11 field players except that FIFA rules require at least one TW.

I truly hope we spank the hell out of Wehen today. My gut tells me it will be a draw 2-2.

[footyfan1]

After sitting in AA on Friday and watching this disastreous performance I have to agree with you. I wouldn't be surprised if Wehen beat us well......:(


I'll hope for a win. But I fully understand how you feel.

[LoewenBoy]

I'll hope for a win. But I fully understand how you feel.
It's like a script:

25th min: Wehen scores against the run of play on a standard situation where the central defense was seeing who's head fit up who's ass the easiest.

55th min: 1860 pull a goal back having gotten their asses chewed out by Wolf at the interval. Lauth is the likely scorer on a one-on-one.

60th min: 1860 relaxes again and Wehen scores again. This time on a through pass right up the middle because now our central midfield is so inept they have been caught forward of our strikers on a counter. OR....Tschauner patzer leads to a very simple goal.

85th min: 1860 gets one back on a standard situation where Schick plays one in and someone, this time likely Thorandt or Hofmann, head it in. Of course, the goal has a 50% chance of being whislted back for offsides or a foul.

I am tuning out now so I can pick up the game when it comes online.;)

[goindownsouth]

Ugh... that was unappealing.

[footyfan1]

I hope not too many others have wasted nearly two hours of their lives watching this absolute mangy dog of match.

An absolutely HORRIBLE match between two bad f#cking teams.

Did anyone else see the fans having a go at Wolf after the match? They were freakin' PISSED OFF!!

And I really can't blame them. I'm sorry guys, but from the way I see it, this 1860 team BELONGS in the 3rd Bundesliga.

I want my f#cking two hours back! :mad:

[russ99]

I'm sorry guys, but from the way I see it, this 1860 team BELONGS in the 3rd Bundesliga.


Can't say I disagree, but I really don't think 3rd Liga would happen if 1680 were relegated. It would be like rats leaving a sinking ship and we'd end up in the Oberliga. Sadly, the current situation reminds me of Fiorentina before they folded than anything else...

So regardless of the epic levels of mismanagement and poor play this spring, I have to say I hope they get the 2 points needed to stay up with 2 to play. Maybe we'll get leadership with any kind of head on their shoulders the next election in the fall.

[LoewenBoy]

Ugh... that was unappealing.

I hope not too many others have wasted nearly two hours of their lives watching this absolute mangy dog of match.
Yeah, it was ugly and unimaginative. I have watched this team for decades. I cannot recall two totally suck-ass matches as the last two. All of these guys can play SOOOO much better than this.


Did anyone else see the fans having a go at Wolf after the match? They were freakin' PISSED OFF!!
LOL....dumbass, drunk fans. But Wolf was standing there antagonizing them by just being there. Just go over, raise your hands, clap and leave.


And I really can't blame them. I'm sorry guys, but from the way I see it, this 1860 team BELONGS in the 3rd Bundesliga.

The way they have played the last two games? Yeah. But what you are seeing are the fruits of the Stevic/Stoffers and the Board getting rid of Reuter. Ziffzer was right when he said that the fish stunk from the head down.

I cannot believe we hit the pole TWICE on the same damn play!!! I cannot believe Bibiana Steinhaus is allowed to do such matches. She is so damn inconsistent and lazy she makes calls from 30 yards away. She calls the slightest grab, but then does not call all out take downs. At least she was marginally even in her shitty calls. Certainly not blaming her for the game, just commenting on how she affected it.

Here is hoping Koblenz loses BIG tomorrow. We have to play Aachen at home, who today beat FCK to move closer to a promotion spot. Then we have to play FCN who also will be fighting for a promotion spot.

I am sorry to say that I fear that we no longer control our own destiny....realistically speaking.

Stink Freak'n Sauer!!!!!

[LoewenBoy]

So regardless of the epic levels of mismanagement and poor play this spring, I have to say I hope they get the 2 points needed to stay up with 2 to play. Maybe we'll get leadership with any kind of head on their shoulders the next election in the fall.
Dude, it is not 2pts, it's more than that depending on Koblenz. If they string 7 points together we are done. Hell, if they string 6pts together and manage to clean up their goal difference, unless someone sucks worse than us we end up tied on points with them and it goes to goal difference. Right now, it ain't bad...but we have Aachen and FCN coming up which ain't likely to improve our goal difference.

[footyfan1]

Yeah, it was ugly and unimaginative. I have watched this team for decades. I cannot recall two totally suck-ass matches as the last two. All of these guys can play SOOOO much better than this.

Can they? Or were they playing over their heads before and this is actually the true Sechzig you're seeing now??


LOL....dumbass, drunk fans. But Wolf was standing there antagonizing them by just being there. Just go over, raise your hands, clap and leave.

One of the reasons I like Wolf is because he would stand over there and ask them what the f#ck do they want.

I like coaches like that. Take no shit from your management or fans.




The way they have played the last two games? Yeah. But what you are seeing are the fruits of the Stevic/Stoffers and the Board getting rid of Reuter. Ziffzer was right when he said that the fish stunk from the head down.

I agree with those comments, but see my first response in this message again.



I cannot believe we hit the pole TWICE on the same damn play!!! I cannot believe Bibiana Steinhaus is allowed to do such matches. She is so damn inconsistent and lazy she makes calls from 30 yards away. She calls the slightest grab, but then does not call all out take downs. At least she was marginally even in her shitty calls. Certainly not blaming her for the game, just commenting on how she affected it.

I think you should have stopped after "same damn play!!!"

Ms. Steinhaus' "effect on the match" didn't make these two shitty teams any worse.

These two teams were just total shit.



Here is hoping Koblenz loses BIG tomorrow.

At Rot-Weiss Ahlen? I don't think so.

But, I guess stranger things have happened......



We have to play Aachen at home, who today beat FCK to move closer to a promotion spot.

I'm almost sorry I have a ticket to that match.


Then we have to play FCN who also will be fighting for a promotion spot.

Final match of the season in Nuernberg too......



I am sorry to say that I fear that we no longer control our own destiny....realistically speaking.

Only if they lose both matches. Which seems likely.

But 1860 probably won't fall lower tomorrow. Even if Koblenz wins, they won't catch Sechzig tomorrow and you seem to forget that FSV Frankfurt, Rostock and Osnabrueck are all between Sechzig and Koblenz.

Osnabrueck has to play in Nuernberg tomorrow. I doubt they win. They then host Ahlen before finishing the season in Duisburg. They might beat Ahlen, but I don't see them beating FCN or Duisburg.

FSV has to play at Mainz tomorrow and then they host Ingolstadt before finishing at St. Pauli. I don't see them beating Mainz or Pauli in Hamburg on the final day.

Rostock threw away a two-goal lead against Augsburg tonight. They host FCN on Sunday and finish the season at SV Wehen-Wiesbaden. If anyone can get by Sechzig, I think it is these guys.

But, I somehow doubt these three teams will catch fire and all get by Sechzig even if Sechzig doesn't take another point.

However, I thought that about FCN in the final days of the 1998/1999 Bundesliga season when they dropped from 12th to 16th on the final day when all they had to do was at least draw at home.

They thought 16th place Frankfurt would never catch them as Frankfurt would have to beat Kaiserslautern by four goals to get past FCN and have Stuttgart, Rostock and Freiburg all win at the same time.

Stuttgart beat Bremen 1-0. Rostock beat already relegated Bochum 3-2 in Bochum.

Freiburg? They beat FCN in Nuernberg. They didn't play that well, but FCN's players didn't show up to play at all.

Well, not until they were down 2-1 and then they heard:

Frankfurt beat FCK 5-1.

I guess it just goes to show that you never know........

[LoewenBoy]

Ms. Steinhaus' "effect on the match" didn't make these two shitty teams any worse.
No she did not make them worse, but she is not up to the task. She missed a ton of calls and made a ton that should not have been remotely whistled.

But 1860 probably won't fall lower tomorrow. Even if Koblenz wins, they won't catch Sechzig tomorrow and you seem to forget that FSV Frankfurt, Rostock and Osnabrueck are all between Sechzig and Koblenz.
With all of them playing better ball than 1860 right now too.


Osnabrueck has to play in Nuernberg tomorrow. I doubt they win. They then host Ahlen before finishing the season in Duisburg. They might beat Ahlen, but I don't see them beating FCN or Duisburg.

FCN=no, Ahlen, yes and perhaps MSV depending on where MSV are on the last day.


FSV has to play at Mainz tomorrow and then they host Ingolstadt before finishing at St. Pauli. I don't see them beating Mainz or Pauli in Hamburg on the final day.
FSV have had a great run and decent form. Pauli has nothing to play for and won't want to risk injury. No, they won't beat Mainz but they will need to beat FC Audi to stay up. They COULD take 6 easily.


Rostock threw away a two-goal lead against Augsburg tonight. They host FCN on Sunday and finish the season at SV Wehen-Wiesbaden. If anyone can get by Sechzig, I think it is these guys.

I agree.


But, I somehow doubt these three teams will catch fire and all get by Sechzig even if Sechzig doesn't take another point.

I will bet Sechzig end up 1 point above Koblenz when all said and done.

[Borussia]

Here is hoping Koblenz loses BIG tomorrow.

I hope that, too. ;) Nevertheless, I'm sure that they will have 40 points in the end ... so your guys might need a win against Aachen or Nuremberg.


Btw: Stop talking badly about my darling Bibiana! :eek: ;)

[LoewenBoy]

I hope that, too. Nevertheless, I'm sure that they will have 40 points in the end ... so your guys might need a win against Aachen or Nuremberg.
I hope they will. My feeling is they will be lucky to get 39.


Btw: Stop talking badly about my darling Bibiana! :eek: ;)
She was bad, very bad. Basic run of play stuff she was whistling for no reason. Then, right after she would not call all out muggings. Both directions, but still. She was 30m or more off the ball and at really weird angles. She really relies a great deal on her assistants so she does not position herself to see certain things most other refs will. Honestly, as someone who as refereed at the college level but never made it to professional games, she made many, many of the mistakes I made when I was an active referee. In fact, these are many of the reasons I was never called higher...just could not make those angles in the games I had.

Let's face it, if she was a dude she would not be in the 2.BL.:cool:

[footyfan1]

Let's face it, if she was a dude she would not be in the 2.BL.:cool:


She's better than Babak Rafati and he's a freakin' UEFA referee.......

So maybe it might be if she were a dude, she wouldn't be in the 2. BL.

Maybe if she were a dude, she'd be a f#ckin' FIFA referee. :D