If you could choose the teams for BL 1 and 2..

[FCBasel1893]

If you could choose what teams should fill the Bundesliga 1 and 2, how would your leagues look like?


Here is my dream constellation:

Bundesliga:

1. FC Bayern München
2. Borussia Dortmund
3. FC Schalke 04
4. Hamburger SV
5. VfB Stuttgart
6. Hertha BSC Berlin
7. Fortuna Düsseldorf
8. Dynamo Dresden
8. Eintracht Frankfurt
9. Werder Bremen
10. Rot-Weiss Essen
11. Offenbacher Kickers
12. 1860 München
13. Union Berlin
14. 1. FC Köln
15. Borussia Mönchengladbach
16. Karlsruher SC
17. Bayer 04 Leverkusen
18. FC St. Pauli

2. Bundesliga:

1. Eintracht Braunschweig
2. SV Waldhof Mannheim
3. 1. FC Kaiserslautern
4. Hansa Rostock
5. Energie Cottbus
6. 1. FC Nürnberg
7. FC Sachsen Leipzig
8. VfB Leipzig
9. Chemnitzer FC
10. VfL Bochum
11. VfL Wolfsburg
12. SC Freiburg
13. Mainz 05
14. Hannover 96
15. Arminia Bielefeld
16. Alemannia Aachen
17. Vfl Osnabrück
18. MSV Duisburg


I think that would make the leagues quite a bit more intense :)

I could have also put BFC Dynamo Berlin back up there in the Bundesliga, but I felt sorry for the police ;)

[jonam]

1. FC Bayern München
2. Borussia Dortmund
3. FC Schalke 04
4. Hamburger SV
5. VfB Stuttgart
6. Hertha BSC Berlin
7. Fortuna Düsseldorf
8. Dynamo Dresden
8. Eintracht Frankfurt
9. Werder Bremen
10. Rot-Weiss Essen
11. 1. FC Kaiserslautern
12. 1. FC Nürnberg
13. VfL Wolfsburg
14. 1. FC Köln
15. Borussia Mönchengladbach
16. VfL Bochum
17. Bayer 04 Leverkusen
18. Hannover 96

Normally I would drop Leverkusen and Wolfsburg as I don't like company teams but as we have to look at 1. Bundesliga's financial stability we need them. You could also switch Dynamo with Hansa or 1860 (will play in a Allianz-Arena from 2005 on).

2. Bundesliga:

1. Eintracht Braunschweig
2. SV Waldhof Mannheim
3. Offenbacher Kickers
4. Hansa Rostock
5. Energie Cottbus
6. 1860 München
7. FC Sachsen Leipzig
8. VfB Leipzig
9. 1.FC Saarbrücken
10. Karlsruher SC
11. Union Berlin
12. SC Freiburg
13. Mainz 05
14. FC St. Pauli
15. Arminia Bielefeld
16. Alemannia Aachen
17. Vfl Osnabrück
18. MSV Duisburg
(19. Stuttgarter Kickers)
(20. Preußen Münster)
((21. Wattenscheid 09))
((22. Wuppertaler SV))


IMO 1. Bundesliga should have a maximum of 18 teams but 2. Bundesliga could without a problem have 20 or 22 teams as they don't have a league cup or European competitions. This would generate extra revenue from ticketing and give some teams with tradition the chance to promote to 2. Bundesliga. At all it would give German professional soccer more depth.

Furthermore I think that a 3. Bundesliga would make sense as most Regionalteams operate like pro's. A 3. Bundesliga wihtout Amateur teams would give many teams a good boost through ticketing revenues, maybe generate some extra TV money and give further depth to German professional football.

[olafgb]

So... I guess your condition is that it stays a 18 team league in the current mode we’re playing... In this case:

Bundesliga (in no particular order):
FC Bayern München
Borussia Dortmund
FC Schalke 04
Hamburger SV
VfB Stuttgart
Hertha BSC Berlin
Fortuna Düsseldorf
Eintracht Frankfurt
Werder Bremen
Borussia Mönchengladbach
1. FC Köln
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Hannover 96
1.FC Nürnberg
Hansa Rostock
VfL Wolfsburg
1.FC Kaiserslautern
VfL Bochum

2.Bundesliga:
Eintracht Braunschweig
SV Waldhof Mannheim
Energie Cottbus
VfB Leipzig
1860 München
SC Freiburg
FSV Mainz 05
Arminia Bielefeld
Alemannia Aachen
VfL Osnabrück
MSV Duisburg
Karlsruher SC
Greuther Fürth
Dynamo Dresden
1.FC Saarbrücken
FC St Pauli
VfB Lübeck
FC Gütersloh, of course ;)

In 2.Bundesliga I already got stomach ache to name half of the clubs in there. The choice is a mixture of infrastructure, geography and attractiveness of the clubs. You could easily add about four to six 2.Bundesliga clubs to Bundesliga, but it’s a real problem to create a 2.Bundesliga that’s attractive and guarantees a certain quality standard.

[Alex_K]

As usual i have no objective Criteria:
(Everything in no particular order)

1. Bundesliga
Bayern München
Werder Bremen
Borussia Dortmund
FC Schalke 04
Hamburger SV
VfB Stuttgart
Hertha BSC
1. FC Kaiserslautern
Bayer Leverkusen
Borussia Mönchengladbach
Bayer Leverkusen
1. FC Köln
1. FC Nürnberg
VfL Bochum
Hansa Rostock
Eintracht Braunschweig
Fortuna Düsseldorf
Dynamo Dresden

2. Bundesliga
Eintracht Frankfurt
Rot-Weiß Essen
Arminia Bielefeld
VfL Osnabrück
FC St. Pauli
Alemannia Aachen
Waldhof Mannheim
Energie Cottbus
1860 München
Karlsruher SC
Energie Cottbus
Kickers Offenbach
SC Freiburg
VfB Leipzig
MSV Duisburg
1. FC Saarbrücken
Union Berlin
1. FC Magdeburg

BONUS: 3. Bundesliga (20 teams)
Freie Turner Braunschweig
Greuther Fürth
VfB Lübeck
Sachsen Leipzig
VfL Wolfsburg
Hannover 96
Chemnitzer FC
Wuppertaler SV
Preußen Münster
SV Babelsberg 03
SV Wilhelmshaven
Wattenscheid 09
FSV Zwickau
VfB Oldenburg
KFC Uerdingen
SpVgg Unterhaching
Eintracht Trier
RW Oberhausen
Jahn Regensburg
FC Gütersloh

[wolfsburgh]

Alex: Wolfsburg in the 3rd Division?!?! That's a bit ridiculous. Actually, that's a lot ridiculous. Why don't you take one of the two Bayer Leverkusens you have in the 1st Division, move it down to 3rd, and move Wolfsburg up in its stead.

[wolfsburgh]

The only change I'd make in the First Division is to add Nuremberg (it's a tough call, but I think Freiburg is the team to go). In the second division, I would add Freiburg for Nuremberg, Rot-Weiss Essen for Osnabrueck, Fortuna Duesseldorf for Unterhaching, Dynamo Dresden for Aue, St. Pauli for Trier, Vfb Leipzig for Ahlen, Entracht Brunswick for Burghausen, and Saarbruecken for RWO. If I can go to twenty for the Second Division, I'd add Stuttgart Kickers and SV Meppen.

[F96]

That's how I'd like it!
No particular order!

1. Bayern München
2. HSV
3. St. Pauli
4. Waldhof Mannheim
5. Dynamo Dresden
6. Hertha BSC Berlin
7. Hannover 96
8. Eintracht Braunschweig (even though I hate them but this is a great rivalry and they have quite a few fans)
9. Werder Bremen
10. Borussia Mönchengladbach
12. 1. FC Köln
12.TSV Alemannia Aachen
13. Schalke 04
14. Borussia Dortmund
15. Rot Weiß Essen
16. SC Freiburg ( Nice fans, nice town)
17.1. FC Kaiserslautern
18.VfB Stuttgart


1. 1. FC Nürnberg
2. Greuther Fürth
3. Eintracht Frankfurt
4. Kickers Offenbach
5. 1. FSV Mainz 05
6. SV Meppen
7. Bayer 04 Leverkusen
8. Fortuna Düsseldorf
9. DSC Arminia Bielefeld
10. Karslruher SC
11. 1 FC Saarbrücken
12. 1860 München
13. Sachsen Leipzig
14. Union Berlin
15. Bochum
16. Vfl Osnabrück
17. SC Preußen Münster
18. Vfl Lübeck

Down with Wolfsburg and Cottbus!!!!!

[96Squig]

1. Bundesliga:
1.Hannover 96
2.Hamburger SV
3.Werder Bremen
4.Schalke 04
5.Hertha BSC Berlin
6.VFL Bochum
7.1. FC Magdeburg
8.Fc St Pauli
9.hansa Rostock
10.bayer 04 leverkusen
11.1. FC Nürnberg
12.VFB Stuttgart
13.SC Freiburg
14.1860 München
15.1.Fc Köln
16.FSV Mainz
17.Greuter Fürth
18.DSC Arminia Bielefeld

2. Bundesliga:
1.bayern München (would help them a lot!!!)
2.Borußia Dortmund
3.Schweinfurt 05
4.Fortuna Düsseldorf
5.dynamo Dresden
6.1.Fc Saarbrücken
7.Kickers offenbach
8.Borußia Mönchengladbach
9.VFB Lübeck
10.Union Berlin
11.MSV Duisburg
12.VFL Osnabrück
13. Karlsruher SC
14.VFL Wolfsburg
15.Schweinfurt 05
16.Alemannia Aachen
17.Arminia Hannover
18.OSV hannover ;-)

[FCBasel1893]

How can anyone not want the VfB Leipzig - Sachsen Leipzig derby to be in there? :)

[96Squig]

They can have their derby in leauge 3 ;-)
no, seriously, if a club manages bad - and that's what happens to Leibzig, as well as it happens to Frankfurt and kaiserslautern (protected by DFB :-( ) In germany and in half of the 1st leauges of Italy and Spain it does not belong in pro soccer anymore, I am sorry for their fans, but that's sort of bad luck... my opinion...

[Alex_K]

Originally posted by wolfsburgh

Alex: Wolfsburg in the 3rd Division?!?! That's a bit ridiculous. Actually, that's a lot ridiculous.
Actually this was one of the reasons for my "no objective criteria" disclaimer.

Originally posted by wolfsburgh
Why don't you take one of the two Bayer Leverkusens you have in the 1st Division, move it down to 3rd, and move Wolfsburg up in its stead.
I thought that they are so good that they would deserve to have two teams in the Bundesliga. But ok, replace one of them by Freiburg and move Wolfsburg one up. Can we be friends again now ? ;)

[wolfsburgh]

Originally posted by Alex_K
I thought that they are so good that they would deserve to have two teams in the Bundesliga. But ok, replace one of them by Freiburg and move Wolfsburg one up. Can we be friends again now ? ;)

Friends :)

[Alex_K]

:)

[Northern Light]

OK, these are mine (trying a mixture of tradition and geography):

1. Bundesliga

Hamburger SV
Werder Bremen
Hannover 96
Eintracht Braunschweig
Hertha BSC
VfB Leipzig
Dynamo Dresden
Schalke 04
Borussia Dortmund
1.FC Köln
Borussia Mönchengladbach
Eintracht Frankfurt
Kickers Offenbach
1.FC Kaiserslautern
Karlsruher SC
VfB Stuttgart
1.FC Nürnberg
Bayern München

2. Bundesliga

FC St. Pauli
Hansa Rostock
Union Berlin
Energie Cottbus
1.FC Magdeburg
VfL Osnabrück
Arminia Bielefeld
RW Essen
VfL Bochum
MSV Duisburg
Bayer Leverkusen
Fortuna Düsseldorf
Alemannia Aachen
1.FC Saarbrücken
Waldhof Mannheim
SC Freiburg
SpVgg Greuther Fürth
1860 München

3. Bundesliga http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/otn/shocked/tdo12.gif

VfB Lübeck
VfL Wolfsburg
SV Meppen
Preußen Münster
Fortuna Köln
KFC (Bayer) Uerdingen
RW Oberhausen
Wuppertaler SV
Hessen Kassel
Darmstadt 98
Sachsen Leipzig
Chemnitzer FC
RW Erfurt
Carl Zeiss Jena
Stuttgarter Kickers
FSV Mainz 05
SSV Ulm 46
Jahn Regensburg