Sarkozy to end four decades of self-imposed isolation and return to Nato's military command. [Archive]

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YankBastard

15 Mar 2009, 06:36 PM

Quelle est votre opinion à ce sujet?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7942086.stm

Earlier this week, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said his country would end four decades of self-imposed isolation and return to Nato's military command.

Here, the BBC's Allan Little reflects on France's long journey to reconcile itself with one of the darkest chapters in its history and its difficult relationship with the US and the UK.

Catel

15 Mar 2009, 07:35 PM

That won't change many things as long as we keep our nuclear military autonomy.

Nanbawan

15 Mar 2009, 09:11 PM

one of the darkest chapters in its history

WTF ? :confused:

Pierre-Henri

16 Mar 2009, 01:06 PM

I don't care at all. France is already part of NATO anyway. The so-called "isolation" was nothing but a few diplomatic technicalities devised to quiet down the anti-americans here.

And, indeed, "one of the darkest chapters in its history" ? What does that mean ? This is a completely irrelevant diversion. France didn't leave the NATO because of WWII, but because of the communist influence in the country during the cold war era.

This journalist is out of his mind. When did the BBC become some sort of tabloïd ? Never ever did France minimize the price Americans, British and Canadians paid for our freedom. Come here and visit the military graveyards. We take care of each and every tomb.

http://www.normandie44lamemoire.com/cimetieres/lescimetieres.html

guignol

17 Mar 2009, 12:45 PM

We take care of each and every tomb.even better than we (they) do in the states. that's why the NYPost headline "they died for france but france has forgotten" (something I'LL never forget!!!! :mad: ) was such a despicable load of horse manure.

guignol

17 Mar 2009, 12:49 PM

and once again, sarko has chosen to act just where it will make the biggest headlines and have the least real effect. like getting all the télérama readers hot and bothered about commercials on france télévision to distract everyone from the ream he was planning for education and research. btw P-H, what's your take on that in strasbourg? i've been meaning to ask!

Anthony

17 Mar 2009, 01:28 PM

Nanbawan

17 Mar 2009, 06:06 PM

What to expect from a guy who jogs with a NYPD T-shirt and Ray-Bans anyway...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2068/2097171627_79a0167529.jpg

Nanbawan

17 Mar 2009, 06:13 PM

I have an idea -- how about a trade. France in NATO and US out.

Considering that NATO was formed to defend the West against an enemy that no longer exists, can someone explain to me why it still is around? Is Serbia a huge threat to the West?

I've read on Courrier International (http://www.courrierinternational.com) website that many in Moscow seem to appreciate this move because they consider that France's link with Russia may help their case...

Sadly, the article isn't available for free any more...Since yesterday, damn !

Anthony

18 Mar 2009, 12:05 AM

I've read on Courrier International (http://www.courrierinternational.com) website that many in Moscow seem to appreciate this move because they consider that France's link with Russia may help their case...

Sadly, the article isn't available for free any more...Since yesterday, damn !

Well fine. And if the rest of Europe has a problem with that, take it up with the EU, whatever replaces NATO and the spend some money on your defense.

We maintain an army in Europe to defend the US from, well, nobody. And Europe from, well, who exactly? It made sense in 1949 when the USSR was run by Stalin and Europe was in ruins -- having fought over it twice, we did not want to fight over it a third time.

And it made sense in 1985 when a prosperous Europe was freeriding to some extent but the thought of an expansionist USSR was still a danger to us. We needed to prove our commitment to give some backbone to Europe.

I read recently that a pretty solid majority of Europeans would not wish to defend the Baltics if Russia invaded. Despite the fact that Russia today is weak, poor, and not an ideological or military threat to the rest of Europe. So why should the US make security committments to Europe when the avergae European seems uninterested in a in security in its backyard?

Pierre-Henri

18 Mar 2009, 04:41 PM

btw P-H, what's your take on that in strasbourg? i've been meaning to ask!

I don't live in Strasbourg itself, but in the countryside just near the Rhine.

If you're talking about he NATO jamboree, I will avoid it thoroughly. Obama didn't invite me anyway.

If you're talking about the current governement policies on research, I will only offer you a long, shrieking wail that will sound like Verdi's requiem. I'm not a leftist, this, this, THIS... my god. Sarkozy obviously doesn't have the faintest clue of what he's talking about. His speech on research was under everything (*). Sarkozy can't distinguish academic research from selling vacuum cleaners door to door. He's a complete ignoramus. To him, everything can be, and has to be, bought and sold. Even culture. Even beauty. Even the thruth.

All his babbling about evaluation proves what obscurantist conception of research he really has (**). So, now, we have to work only to please the market and the customers ? What I write doesn't matter, but only the number of hits I get, the commercial buzz my work manage to create ? I've read an article, written by some brain damaged university manager, suggesting that we, humanists, should write prose suitable for automatic search engines. Therefore, I should not write for human readers in flesh and bones anymore, but will have to comply to the rules edicted by "Google Scholar."

I say no. I won't let Google Scholar, H-index, ERIH, AERES or any other totalitarian bureaucratic machine influence my style. I'm a specialist of poetry. I deal with beauty, freedom, love, nativity, oblivion, war and human grandeur, not with business plans, impact factors and customer surveys. And Sarkozy can put his idea of incentive pay where he keeps his mucky promises. Philistine.

----------------------------
(*) Wendelin Werner's point of view : http://www.lemonde.fr/opinions/article/2009/02/18/monsieur-le-president-vous-ne-mesurez-peut-etre-pas-la-defiance-par-wendelin-werner_1157067_3232.html

(**) Pierre Jourde wrote splendid articles about this :
http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2008/12/JOURDE/16610
and
http://www.sauvonslarecherche.fr/spip.php?page=imprimer&id_article=2511

YankBastard

19 Mar 2009, 04:08 AM

Well now with Obama in power and we make our way out of Iraq and get some respect back from the world. Us Americans can get back to what we love doing the most: Irritating the French. http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

guignol

19 Mar 2009, 06:36 AM

I've read an article, written by some brain damaged university manager, suggesting that we, humanists, should write prose suitable for automatic search engines. Therefore, I should not write for human readers in flesh and bones anymore, but will have to comply to the rules edicted by "Google Scholar."i wonder what a search engine version of la pensée sauvage would be like. easier going likely, but i'm not sure there would be much point.

one might think structuralist works well-suited to such "progress". but that would mean there is no difference between us and machines, and there is. small perhaps, but all-important.

StarrMatthieu

19 Mar 2009, 10:52 PM

StarrMatthieu

19 Mar 2009, 10:54 PM

I don't live in Strasbourg itself, but in the countryside just near the Rhine.

If you're talking about he NATO jamboree, I will avoid it thoroughly. Obama didn't invite me anyway.

If you're talking about the current governement policies on research, I will only offer you a long, shrieking wail that will sound like Verdi's requiem. I'm not a leftist, this, this, THIS... my god. Sarkozy obviously doesn't have the faintest clue of what he's talking about. His speech on research was under everything (*). Sarkozy can't distinguish academic research from selling vacuum cleaners door to door. He's a complete ignoramus. To him, everything can be, and has to be, bought and sold. Even culture. Even beauty. Even the thruth.

All his babbling about evaluation proves what obscurantist conception of research he really has (**). So, now, we have to work only to please the market and the customers ? What I write doesn't matter, but only the number of hits I get, the commercial buzz my work manage to create ? I've read an article, written by some brain damaged university manager, suggesting that we, humanists, should write prose suitable for automatic search engines. Therefore, I should not write for human readers in flesh and bones anymore, but will have to comply to the rules edicted by "Google Scholar."

I say no. I won't let Google Scholar, H-index, ERIH, AERES or any other totalitarian bureaucratic machine influence my style. I'm a specialist of poetry. I deal with beauty, freedom, love, nativity, oblivion, war and human grandeur, not with business plans, impact factors and customer surveys. And Sarkozy can put his idea of incentive pay where he keeps his mucky promises. Philistine.

----------------------------
(*) Wendelin Werner's point of view : http://www.lemonde.fr/opinions/article/2009/02/18/monsieur-le-president-vous-ne-mesurez-peut-etre-pas-la-defiance-par-wendelin-werner_1157067_3232.html

(**) Pierre Jourde wrote splendid articles about this :
http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2008/12/JOURDE/16610
and
http://www.sauvonslarecherche.fr/spip.php?page=imprimer&id_article=2511

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