The women just don't get it...

[mr magoo]

Have u ever seen him play?

[Brownswan]

Originally posted by quarterUltra


Oh I guess you like it when men are being big cry babies and wimps.

Women are and always will be tougher than men. I'll take you and this kind of commentary seriously whenever you start to bear children.

I won't argue with you on the above; believe what you like. Evidently men have the edge when it comes to sarcasm, irony, etc.

If your read between the lines you will find the image of a tongue frimly planted in cheek.

Actually, Birgit Prinz went down and LEFT THE FIELD. She was really injured! Talk about setting a bad example -- not going down unless actually hurt!

(See? That's called sarcasm, used to make a point about the men's game. Lit 101. No charge.)

I kept switching to the WUSA Champ just to relax my eyes from the maze of football lines on the Denver field. It was a hot match in the final 15 or so. The Atlanta field looked huge; the women seem to give each other a lot of space, especially in the middle third. For my money it's good lower division soccer. It doesn't match the pace of MLS, but it was a more attractive match than the Metro-DC dustup yesterday.

[bungadiri]

Originally posted by Vicar
There's plenty of diving etc. in the women's game in general and the WUSA in particular.

I disagree. I see far less in the women's game, with the exception of some national teams. However, generally speaking, there seems to be significantly less, again based on what I see. My statement, if it was my statement you were responding to, was based on what I've seen. I enjoy watching soccer, whether men or women are playing. When women play, one of the things I enjoy is a relative absence of gamesmanship.

[i]Originally posted by Vicar
It is just as much crap to have to put up with proponents of the women's game talking about how much better sports the women are (which really isn't all that true - as anyone who watched the Atlanta Cheat play last year can testify), or how much better their footskills are, or whatever, as it is to slam the women's game because they are slow, weak, and generally not as physically talented as men. If you like women's soccer, good for you. Don't try to sell it to me as if it's more 'clean' or 'pure' or 'skillfull' or anything else.

Well, here I agree with you. These generalizations are usually wrong, and motivated by issues that go beyond soccer (usually sexism, but occasionally it comes from the other direction). I have never argued that the women's game is somehow more skillful or closer to the ideal. Nor, on the other hand, do I accept statments, like some of those posted here, to the effect that women are somehow naturally unable to grasp what is essential to soccer and put it into effect, which is what's implicit in all the smirking references "girlie football". There is far to much evidence to the contrary in both cases.

[seahawkdad]

Originally posted by thepremierleague


More women watch and enjoy mens football then womens.

True in my own family, even though my wife coaches girls and my daughter plays on a college team. They'd both rather watch an MLS game (Freedom excepted, of course) than a WUSA game.

I must say, however, that Freedom's loss was better played than was DC United's this weekend.

[seahawkdad]

Originally posted by Elninho


You might be amused to hear that there's another arena named Kenny. :p

Plus, there's a park called South where, I understand, they regularly kill Kenny...:(

Originally posted by Vicar
If you like women's soccer, good for you. Don't try to sell it to me as if it's more 'clean' or 'pure' or 'skillfull' or anything else.

The interesting thing is that I agree. The reason I started this thread actually had very little to do with the women's game. I'm just tired of the acting-injured that goes on in the men's game. It is one of the few sports where men behave like this. You don't see it in rugby, in Australian rules football, in US football, in basketball, in baseball, in almost any sport.

It leads fans of other sports in the US to see soccerr players as wimps. It slows the game down. It is basically disgusting.

[seahawkdad]

Originally posted by quarterUltra


Oh I guess you like it when men are being big cry babies and wimps.

Women are and always will be tougher than men. I'll take you and this kind of commentary seriously whenever you start to bear children.

'Scuze me...I guess I should have posted the sarcasm sign.

Jeeez. Some people are just too damned literal. How is it that most everyone else understood the underlying intent?

Try reading it again with a mindset that I hate faking injuries and diving...if you can calm down enought to pull that off.

[SoFla Metro]

Just read this whole thread. That's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

[seahawkdad]

Originally posted by LatinPartisan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by thepremierleague
[B]
All around the world soccer is a guys' sport, for the mean and tough guys, just like what the NFL is here.

Thanks for bringing this back to soccer. Here's what I find puzzling. In the US, being a man means playing with pain, playing injured, not letting anyone see that it hurts.

So when we see Europeans and South Americans and our Mexican compadres writhing in pseudo pain on the ground, it violates what US men think is allowable masculine behavior.

Which then raises our own culturally biased question about just how mean and tough those guys are.

Here's a question. Are there nations whose footballers would more closely fit this US matcho approach to sports. If so, which are they. And, if so, what factors would explain any national differences in the approach to 'injured' behavior?

Originally posted by SoFla Metro
Just read this whole thread. That's 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Some people just don't know when to quit :D

[Bauser]

Originally posted by seahawkdad
Thanks for bringing this back to soccer. Here's what I find puzzling. In the US, being a man means playing with pain, playing injured, not letting anyone see that it hurts.

So when we see Europeans and South Americans and our Mexican compadres writhing in pseudo pain on the ground, it violates what US men think is allowable masculine behavior.

Diving, sulking and crying is a typical latin thing. Unfortunately those countries are also some of the best nations in the game and therefore the focus on the problem is bigger than it really is. There are loads of countries where people stay on their feet.

[luxinluv]

Originally posted by LatinPartisan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by thepremierleague
[B]

Call me a caveman super macho, whatever, i don't care, but he has a point, outside of the United States, many people think that women's soccer in the US is a big joke (and that's taking from the book "the girls of summer"). All around the world soccer is a guys' sport, for the mean and tough guys, just like what the NFL is here.


OK-caveman super macho....

What sports should we play then...according to "the rest of the world"?
I am not naive-I watch men's soccer- I know the level of play is higher & faster but does that mean we should just quit trying to be better and stronger? I've played soccer for many many many years and I am completely in love with the sport so forgive me for getting pissed that people like you consider it a joke or "not the real thing" that I play & take it seriously.

And how can you, in a single post, blame the existance of US Women's soccer for making the men's team look bad to the rest of the world and causing you to consider not supporting US soccer and then end your post by wishing it "good luck"?

At least you acknowledge the fact that your 'machisto'...props for that. But I hope you never have children.

Alright...bring on the 'nazi-feminist' anti-PC replies. I'm ready.

[skipshady]

This reminds me of an column in GQ while back where the writer was lamenting the fact that soccer had become a family friendly, "safe" sport in the U.S., while it's anything but for the rest of the world.

Since it's natural for the uninitiated viewers to latch on to whatver is different from their own sports, regular Joe Sixpack sees players diving and writhing in mock pain, and women's football getting press, it reinforces this perception. A shame, since you need a pretty high pain threshold to succeed in soccer.

[bungadiri]

Originally posted by luxinluv


OK-caveman super macho....

What sports should we play then...according to "the rest of the world"?
I am not naive-I watch men's soccer- I know the level of play is higher & faster but does that mean we should just quit trying to be better and stronger? I've played soccer for many many many years and I am completely in love with the sport so forgive me for getting pissed that people like you consider it a joke or "not the real thing" that I play & take it seriously.

And how can you, in a single post, blame the existance of US Women's soccer for making the men's team look bad to the rest of the world and causing you to consider not supporting US soccer and then end your post by wishing it "good luck"?

At least you acknowledge the fact that your 'machisto'...props for that. But I hope you never have children.

Alright...bring on the 'nazi-feminist' anti-PC replies. I'm ready.

Nice post.

[seahawkdad]

Originally posted by skipshady
A shame, since you need a pretty high pain threshold to succeed in soccer.

Lord yes. I remember a high school sports season about 6 years back where I went to all of my kids' school's football and soccer games.

At three of the soccer games they had to bring ambulances in to haul players off to the hospital.

That was required at none of the football games.

I've seen more broken bones in soccer than I've seen in football. And probably as many torn up knees.

[LatinPartisan]

Originally posted by skipshady
This reminds me of an column in GQ while back where the writer was lamenting the fact that soccer had become a family friendly, "safe" sport in the U.S., while it's anything but for the rest of the world.

Since it's natural for the uninitiated viewers to latch on to whatver is different from their own sports, regular Joe Sixpack sees players diving and writhing in mock pain, and women's football getting press, it reinforces this perception. A shame, since you need a pretty high pain threshold to succeed in soccer.

That's one the best sporst articles I have read so far. and tells you in simple words something that the MLS doesn't get it yet..that soccer will never take off (i.e. commercially)in the USA until it doesn't get rid of that family friendly-suburban-sissy atmosphera that make many soccer fans to ignore the sport in this country. Soccer is a sport for the big mean tigers not for small shy kitties.

[LatinPartisan]

OK-caveman super macho....

What sports should we play then...according to "the rest of the world"?
I am not naive-I watch men's soccer- I know the level of play is higher & faster but does that mean we should just quit trying to be better and stronger? I've played soccer for many many many years and I am completely in love with the sport so forgive me for getting pissed that people like you consider it a joke or "not the real thing" that I play & take it seriously.

Ok I did not say you should quit or stop getting better or stronger etc but you shouldn't expect the women's cup to have the ratings and the money of the men's cup. Don't expect big endorsements or the media hype that surrounds the EPL or La LIga.
And the "joke" thing was taking directly from the book "the girls of summer." In the US, the women's team are seen as role models, so cute, and stuff , but abroad people laugh at them. You can say "screw you and screw the world" but that's the reality of this.

And how can you, in a single post, blame the existance of US Women's soccer for making the men's team look bad to the rest of the world
i don't blame you.. but it's pretty embarrasing to see that you won something the guys haven't: a world cup. Even Brandi Chastein was joking on tv that she was woman who has to talk about and explain the rules of a guy's sport such as soccer.

and causing you to consider not supporting US soccer
I support US soccer...but I hate that suburban sissy mentality that surrounds the sport here (check the article in GQ magazine October 2000)
and then end your post by wishing it "good luck"?

Yeah good luck because you know that after the men's success you will have to work agaisnt the odds that's why... keep the WUSA to yourselves and don't let anybody to take it away from you
At least you acknowledge the fact that your 'machisto'...
Yeah, but macho guys treat a women much better than ********** looking guys, you know what I am saying, baby...
props for that. But I hope you never have children.
with you never...
Alright...bring on the 'nazi-feminist' anti-PC replies. I'm ready.
your anger has turned me on...

[Coryattheplex]

Hey Luxi.......it's femi-nazi, not nazi femnism..........FEMI-NAZI! It has a ring to it you know, kind of just rolls of the tongue.

[phojotastic]

Originally posted by LatinPartisan
your anger has turned me on...
Right on...wanna' go out?

[AFCA]

Girls can play football. I reckon there's enough pretty good female players.

The thing is I wouldn't watch a match in my life and any football fan that does... I laugh at.

[bungadiri]

Originally posted by Coryattheplex
Hey Luxi.......it's femi-nazi, not nazi femnism..........FEMI-NAZI! It has a ring to it you know, kind of just rolls of the tongue...
...with the drool and spit bubbles. Actually, the Big Fat Idiot coined the term as FemNazi, not FemiNazi.

[luxinluv]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LatinPartisan
[B]

"Ok I did not say you should quit or stop getting better or stronger etc..."

No, you didn't say that directly, but you very much insinuated that that's how you felt with what you did say. You didn't exactly come off as being supportive of women playing to me.

"but you shouldn't expect the women's cup to have the ratings and the money of the men's cup. Don't expect big endorsements or the media hype that surrounds the EPL or La LIga."

I completely realize this.

"And the "joke" thing was taking directly from the book "the girls of summer." In the US, the women's team are seen as role models, so cute, and stuff , but abroad people laugh at them. You can say "screw you and screw the world" but that's the reality of this."

Fair enough. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop defending it. I'm an idealist.


"I support US soccer...but I hate that suburban sissy mentality that surrounds the sport here (check the article in GQ magazine October 2000)"

I feel the same way as you do about this.



"Yeah, but macho guys treat a women much better than ********** looking guys, you know what I am saying, baby..."

Ummm...I'd like to think there's a happy medium. And I prefer be referred to as "sugar" as opposed to "baby" thank you.

"props for that. But I hope you never have children.
with you never..."

That kind of hurts.


"your anger has turned me on..."

I do my best. Its nice to know that I'm fulfilling my duties as a female on this planet even on BigSoccer Boards. :)