MLS v NASL

[anderson]

Originally posted by detroitexpress
But frankly, I'll take the NASL over MLS because it put a team in my town. The NASL was here. MLS isn't. I don't care how great MLS is, if I don't have a hometown team I have nothing. After year after year of being frozen out of pro soccer...As a resident of Houston, I feel your pain. Unfortunately, your Detroit NASL club would likely only be around for one or two seasons and then either move or fold. On the bright side, you would have a good chance of getting another NASL team - maybe the Houston franchise, which maybe used to be the Philly franchise, which used to be the San Diego franchise... ;)

The relative stability of MLS has been both one of its strongest and - for people in places like Detroit, Houston, Philly, etc. - most frustrating characteristics. Sometimes stability is just a more positive way to describe inertia.

Still, I can't really gripe much about MLS' highly conservative approach to expansion - it's Uncle Phil's money to lose and he's been wonderfully willing to keep losing it every year. All I can promise him is a season-ticket holder in Houston. I suspect he needs a bit more than that.

But if the NASL suffered from being overly ambitious, it's reasonable to wonder whether MLS has been ambitious enough. Oh well, back to Chivas v. Cruz Azul. :rolleyes:

[enderjed]

kenntomasch wrote:
Other teams on turf:
Dallas Tornado - Texas Stadium

Maybe a minor point, but all the Tornado games I went to as a kid were at Ownby Stadium an the campus of SMU. And yes, they played on turf.

[Goodsport]

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Will the experience ever be as magical as it was back in the day? :(


-G

[pething101]

Originally posted by Goodsport
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Will the experience ever be as magical as it was back in the day? :(


-G

I wonder how many out of the billions that use BS ever saw a NASL match.

[USRufnex]

Originally posted by Goodsport
&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Will the experience ever be as magical as it was back in the day? :(


-G

I think the "magic" depended on your vantage point... not sure there was a whole lotta magic going on if you were a fan of: Atlanta Chiefs, Colorado Caribous, Team Hawaii, New England Tea Men, Memphis Rogues, Houston Hurricane or even a LA Aztec team with a George Best or Johann Cruyff...

There was definitely "magic" in the air in Tulsa... somebody else mentioned there wasn't much tackling in games played on astroturf-- makes sense once you see the massive strawberries and general rugburn from sliding around on the carpet that was Skelly Stadium.

As a teenage soccer player during the Roughneck years, seeing these players live was a way to learn the game and the only place you could find a "hero" to emulate (Joe-Max Moore was a ballboy and son of one of the owners-- he also was a big fan of Duncan McKenzie). It was this, the occasional ABC games and an hour of "Soccer Made in Germany" with Toby Charles on PBS that inspired young soccer players to dream...

I remember games where over 30,000 fans would come to see Tulsa play the Cosmos... or a playoff game where the fans carried goalkeeper Jack Brand off the field after he shut out NY in front of over 26K... the next game attracted over 76,000 fans to Giants Stadium... I remember big games against the Minnesota Kicks or a big game at Detroit where the great Trevor Francis botched a penalty kick... I remember seeing good highlights to NASL games on SI, ESPN and the Sports Machine... and of course, the very last Soccer Bowl in which Tulsa beat Toronto in front of over 50K at BC Place in Vancouver-- anybody got a video of this thing... can't find one anywhere!

But I also remember games at Dallas (whether it was Texas Stadium or the field at SMU) where hardly anyone was there... games on TV in Tulsa that showed an utterly empty Astrodome or a "pathetic" (a term all Bigsoccer posters have heard when it comes to MLS attendance) crowd at the huge Fulton County Stadium for a game against GK Victor Noguiera and the Atlanta Chiefs... or the "feast or famine" followers of the Chicago Sting-- mostly only a few thousand would show at Wrigley or Comiskey or Soldier Field but then seemingly out of nowhere they'd get a HUGE crowd...

I can tell you that as a fan of one of the final 7 teams... a team who's fans raised close to 60,000 dollars on a radio station after it was rumored the Roughnecks were in danger of folding... a city that wanted the Roughnecks to sell stock options ala the Green Bay Packers... we didn't let the league down... the league let us down...

I hear people put together stats that they figure indicate NASL history has nothing to do with how a team will do in MLS...

Yes, times may have changed, but I still find that opinion very offensive...

And I figure I'm not the only one... fans in Minneapolis, Detroit, Seattle, Portland, Vancouver and Montreal can point to HUGE attendance figures and say, "Why these teams and not us?"

It's offensive to fans on the outside looking in that a league can keep teams in the same cities for years with little/no success... where the NASL changed teams early and often, I tire of those who blindly think MLS is some sort of Moses (St. Phil, anyone?) who came from Mt Sinai and presented 10 teams to us which we shall worship forever and ever, amen...

MLS has turned into the stuck-up cheerleader in high school who's too good for anybody and **surprise** can't find a date to the prom:

Lower your standards, b****!

[fusionmansteve]

Great post Roughneck...I was a ten year old who dreaded Striker road trips to Skelly, where we always seemed to struggle....

As a soccer fan twice fallen in love, and twice dumped (Strikers, Fusion), I can say that the highs I experienced at Lockhart, whether it was 1979 or 2001, were equally dramatic. We played with a flair last year that the league sorely misses this year....take your greatest success story and blow it up, unbelievable.

Yet there is nothing like your first time. Nene Cubillas, Ray Hudson, Jan Van Beveran, Best, David Irving, Branko Segota...ahhhhh!!!

And it was before the days of the jaded, disillusioned sports fan...as successful as we were last year, we knew we were one good Qwest investigation or cash call away from extinction. The glory days of the NASL had, and it sounds corny, a real innocence, however short lived...and that can never be replicated. Will I ever root for a home side at Lockhart again? Who the hell knows. I sincerely hope Tulsa gets a committed I/O that can get things rolling for you in OK. Keep the logo and nickname!

[kenntomasch]

The Tornado did play at Ownby for a while, but I remember them best at Texas Stadium.

I doubt very seriously that 10% of all BS members ever saw an NASL game.

And the answer to anyone in any city who asks, "Why not us" is a very simple one: No one has stepped forward saying they want a team, come up with sufficient money, and a good enough place to play, have they?

The NASL didn't make you go through all that. If you wanted in, all you had to do was say, "We're going to play in this NFL/CFL stadium, and lots of kids play soccer in our area" and you were in.

Of course, you were usually out not long after that.

As for magic, I saw it firsthand at Tampa Stadium.

[bukie2k]

Originally posted by fusionmansteve
Great post Roughneck...I was a ten year old who dreaded Striker road trips to Skelly, where we always seemed to struggle....

Name one NASL team that didn't struggle at Skelly. The Roughnecks used that small, narrow field to it's full potential. Tulsa quickly became the one opponent the Cosmos didn't want to see in the post season.

[SoccerMavn]

I know it was only 24 teams...Lord knows what I was thinking when I typed 28.

Goddamn Phil Woosnam and his fascination with the NFL...all he ever wanted was to be as big as pro pointyball. Even had an "American Soccer Conference" and "National Socer Conference." *shudder*

I do think the NASL had the same teams in the same cities in 1979 and 1980--no folds, no expansion, no moves.

For what it's worth, I went to quite a few Fury games as a kid, from 1978 to 1980. I never saw an Atoms game live, though; caught them on radio and TV. Going to games was never that much fun; the game was OK, but rattling around in cavernous Veterans Stadium was depressing. So was the Astroturf, with the big green covers where baseball infield was.

[kenntomasch]

You are correct, sir!

1979-1980
----------
NATIONAL CONFERENCE
East
New York Cosmos
Washington Diplomats
Toronto Blizzard
Rochester Lancers

Central
Minnesota Kicks
Dallas Tornado
Tulsa Roughnecks
Atlanta Chiefs

West
Vancouver Whitecaps
Los Angeles Aztecs
Seattle Sounders
Portland Timbers

AMERICAN CONFERENCE
East
Tampa Bay Rowdies
Ft.Lauderdale Strikers
Philadelphia Fury
New England Tea Men

Central
Houston Hurricane
Chicago Sting
Detroit Express
Memphis Rogues

West
San Diego Sockers
California Surf
Edmonton Drillers
San Jose Earthquakes

Ah, those were the days.

[SoccerScout]

Sure NASL did many things wrong, but like it or not the NASL directly or indirectly affected how US Soccer turned out in the 1990's.

The magical aquisition of Pele for 3 years opened up many roads for soccer in the US. That seed which was planted for immediate returns ended up benefitting soccer in the future even more. If we had an alternate universe in which the NASL never brought over Pele I would bet anything that US soccer would still be at 1970's or 1980's level without even an attempt to improve it much. Boy those were the dark ages.

[Goodsport]

&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Sadly, though, according to the recent A&E Biography special on Pele, it seems that the only reason Pele agreed to play for the New York Cosmos was because he was in a huge financial pickle after most of his money went bye-bye following the bankruptcy of the rubber plantation he heavily invested in (the Cosmos signed him for around $6 million in 1970's money, so it would probably translate to a lot more money in today's money). :(


-G

[TequilaJoal]

Well...

NASL - was a great entity of soccer in a nation that didin't know anything about soccer

MLS - Is a pathetic entity of soccer in a nation that doesn't even care about soccer.

NASL - Spent "S"hit loads of money to put together great teams.

MLS - Shells out pithy amounts of money for psuedo-great and past their prime type talent.

NASL - Didnt care where they played, or what they played on, When they played games, and first to use orange soccer ball.

MLS - begrugingly enough care about where they play, what they play on" except Chicago", when they play games, and have changed the ball a few times.

NASL - Hardly had any TV coverage, It was strictly a fan involved base sport. you either went to the game, or you didnt hear anything about it.

MLS - panders like a cheap whore to any T.V. coverage it can get... Letting ESPN pimp it around like the " worlds strongest man competition " lead in.

NASL - Caputred great attendance's in Philly, Rochester, and the Northwest. tried and failed in Los Angeles twice.... but that was before the great Mexican emmigration.

MLS - luckily has L.A. , NY & D.C -- other cities in MLS would have been contracted or moved in NASL era.

NASL - called it moving or sale of the team and subsequently teams were eliminated from the league in 14 of it's 17 years as a league.

MLS - to it's credit has only contracted once. But if things dont improve could find itself emulating the NASL very soon.

just some of the comparisons - our soccer history is very entertaining if not very historic or memoriable.

[kenntomasch]

Well, there you have it.

[Stan Collins]

Originally posted by TequilaJoal
Well...
NASL - Spent "S"hit loads of money to put together great teams. {Ed. Note, primarily on either pseudo-great or past-its-prime talent, though there was the occsional Chinaglia}

MLS - Shells out pithy amounts of money for psuedo-great and past their prime type talent.

pithy - adjective
(of speech or writing) short and clever; expressing an idea cleverly in a few words

I agree. Compared to the NASL, MLS's spending has been short and clever.

[kenntomasch]

Maybe he has an occasional lisp. ;)

[QuakeAttack]

I have had the privilege of being season ticket holders for both the NASL (via my parents) and MLS (Charter Members) versions of the Quakes. Our family started attending games the first full season of the Quakes (1974) and purchased seasons tickets the next year. We had season tickets until the last year before the league folded.

Some of the highlights of the NASL:

1. Seeing Some of the Best Players in the World
Although past their prime, I got to see the following play in person: Pele (NY), Eusebio (Toronto?), Beckenbauer (NY), Cruyff (LA), Muller (FL), Best (LA and SJ), Hurst (Seattle), Alberto(NY), Banks (VC), Bogicevic (NY), Chinaglia(NY)...

2. Family Atmosphere
Large crowds at small stadium, great half time entertainment, and Crazy George...

3. Good Soccer
Although my only compasion was German soccer (Soccer Made in Germany with Toby Charles on PBS), the game was played with passion until the early 80s...

4. Professional League
Allowed me to dream of playing professional soccer in the US.

5. Soccer Bowl 1975
Attended the Tampa Bay vs Portland. Huge crowd for Spartan Stadium. People were standing at the top of the stands.

Some of the lowlights of the NASL:

1. Level Play
Never really improved year after year. Just stayed the same...

2. Old Players
Too many old players taking a summer vacation...

3. No US Player Development
Had to set limits on the number of US players who HAD to be on the field.

4. Management
Even as a teenager, I could tell when things were starting to go south in the early 80's for the league.

Some of the highlights of the MLS:

1. Level of Play
Every year the level of play gets better. After only six years, its comparable to second tier leagues in the soccer nations (England, Germany, Italy, etc.)

2. US Player Development
Rather than only having a token three US players on the field, the team is mostly US players with a foreign limit. 2002 WC is a direct reflection of having a professional league consisting of mainly US players.

3. Family Atmosphere
Now I bring my family to games. Inexpensive, nice duration (two hours), and good people...

4. Decent Management
Conservative approach with a view to the long term vs short term gains will work. Just need to be patient for a couple of more years.

5. Attended the First MLS Game

6. No Crazy George
Don't need him any more. Fans know when to cheer...

Some of the lowlights of the MLS:

1. Team Depth
Not enough money to have quality players on the bench. Effects competion in tournments against forieign teams.

2. Marketing
League still has figured out the best way to market the product.

3. Foreign players
Learned from the NASL mistake of bringing too many over-the-hill players, but the league could use a few names players who still have a little soccer in them to validate the league outside of the US.

4. Stadiums
Still need soccer specific stadiums for the long run.

5. Watching the Clash
Inept soccer at its finest.

It took me a long time to recover from the NASL folding, but I can through the clouds to a great future for the MLS.

[kenntomasch]

Originally posted by QuakeAttack
5. Soccer Bowl 1975
Attended the Tampa Bay vs Portland. Huge crowd for Spartan Stadium. People were standing at the top of the stands.

You were there?

Got a program, a ticket stub, or anything like that? Anything at all?

[QuakeAttack]

Originally posted by kenntomasch


You were there?

Got a program, a ticket stub, or anything like that? Anything at all?

Unfortunately, I don't think so. I was only 11 years old, and at that time, I collected only baseball, football, and "wacky package" cards.

However, I should check with my parents. My mom may have some stuff. She is kind of a pack rat.

[kenntomasch]

Well let me know.

I loved Wacky Packs as well. And I was ten at the time.