ROC Rugby: a little too confident?

[pc4th]

http://www.foxsportsworld.com/content/view?contentId=2138410

I know it should belong to the "Other Sports" Section but it got a business side to it. It's an interesting read for everyone. Not sure I agree with his attitude but that is the kind of attitude that is needed if something is going to be accomplished.

American 'power' athletes need to get out into the international sports stage. I'm a big football and basketball fan, don't get me wrong, but I'm saying that he next leap in professional sport is not arena football, it's International Rugby.


I'll do what I have always done. I'll look into it. I'll put some people on it and make a plan. If it makes sense to me I'll go after it 100 percent.

It seems to me that people have been playing rugby in this country for years and nobody really has gone after the big picture. I prefer the big picture. It's the only way I look at things.

The plan is simple. First, we get the word out. Next we raise big money and get some serious sponsors onboard. Then we go out and get the best coaches in the world, the best athletes in America and train them to play top quality rugby.

I'll send ROC Rugby around the world and when it's time to play an International match we'll put on the Red, White and Blue and see how long it takes to knock off one of the top ten international sides or the Barbarians. I don't think it will take that long!

We're going to have some fun, make some money and RULE rugby, and it won't take ten years to do it!

[SportBoy333]

A hip hop mogul getting invloved with rugby ? Thats pretty bizarre considering rugby in the US is predominately a white middle class sport. He wants the USA to dominate the world in less than 10 years the only chance he has is if he can convince some NFLers to change sports and if if by some miracle he did that there's still no guarantee they'd win as rugby is a complex game and it take years to learn all the aspects of the sport. This plan has failure written all over it. The only shot you'd have is to make rugby a varisty sport in every high school and college across America and in 20 years from now see what happens.

[Sandon Mibut]

Excuse my OldWhiteMan Syndrome, but who is Damon Dash?

[stanleyt]

Originally posted by Sandon Mibut
Excuse my OldWhiteMan Syndrome, but who is Damon Dash?

Damon Dash is the CEO of Roc-a-Fella Records as well as a driving force behind Roc-a-Wear Clothing. While Roc has a decent stable of artists, the true moneymaker and centerpiece is rapper Jay-Z. aka Jigga, aka J-Hova or Hova aka Beyonce's boyfriend.

I was wondering who was "Team Roc" but when they started running videos and I saw the sponsor logo near the clock a big smile came across my face.

Hey, as many ex-NFL players or wannabe NFL and Arena League players that are out there, there's gotta be a way to convert some of those cats to the sport. To paraphrase Jerry Jones, if we had fifteen of those we could rule the world!

I've always imagined what havoc Barry Sanders could've wreaked as a Rugby player.

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by stanleyt
I've always imagined what havoc Barry Sanders could've wreaked as a Rugby player.

I was about to say something like, well, you never know because it's possible that he wouldn't be able to tackle to save his life... but then remembered that that shortcoming didn't stop Jonah Lomu from being recognized as one of rugby's greats.

[pc4th]

Originally posted by stanleyt
Damon Dash is the CEO of Roc-a-Fella Records as well as a driving force behind Roc-a-Wear Clothing. While Roc has a decent stable of artists, the true moneymaker and centerpiece is rapper Jay-Z. aka Jigga, aka J-Hova or Hova aka Beyonce's boyfriend.

I was wondering who was "Team Roc" but when they started running videos and I saw the sponsor logo near the clock a big smile came across my face.

Hey, as many ex-NFL players or wannabe NFL and Arena League players that are out there, there's gotta be a way to convert some of those cats to the sport. To paraphrase Jerry Jones, if we had fifteen of those we could rule the world!

I've always imagined what havoc Barry Sanders could've wreaked as a Rugby player.


not a lot of rugby people are happy with this business decision to team up with a hip-hop. It's a weird combination indeed, but they are pumping money into rugby. Time will tell if it will pay off.

http://www.foxsportsworld.com/content/view?contentId=2141702

[PSU92]

Very interesting.

If they could actually assemble some Divison I Football talent that is undrafted because they are slightly too small or too slow to be a WR, LB or DB in the NFL & convince them to play Rugby for like 50k a year you might have something after a few years.

We wouldn't beat NZ or anything but we would be a lot better than we are now.

[skipshady]

Originally posted by SportBoy333
A hip hop mogul getting invloved with rugby ? Thats pretty bizarre considering rugby in the US is predominately a white middle class sport.It's actually not extremely surprising considering Dash's prep school education.
Profile of Dash: http://www.time.com/time/insidebiz/article/0,9171,1101031208-552113,00.html

A big part of the growth of American soccer is the money pumped in by wealthy benefactors. Who knows, Roc could do something similar for US rugby.

[voros]

Originally posted by Dr. Wankler
I was about to say something like, well, you never know because it's possible that he wouldn't be able to tackle to save his life... but then remembered that that shortcoming didn't stop Jonah Lomu from being recognized as one of rugby's greats.
In that case, the guy they should look up is a fairly recent Heisman Trophy winner: Eric Crouch. There is no position for him to play in the NFL, but who ran the option at Nebraska and that's as close to "sevens" rugby as American Football gets. Blinding elusive runner. During Nebraska's pasting in the National Championship game, they had one player who looked like he belonged on the field with Miami, Eric Crouch.

[salmacis]

It's hilarious.

Firstly, anybody who asserts that America produces the best athletes in the world is already struggling for credibility with me. (And that includes quite a few BigSoccer posters, unfortunately.) If Americans are such superior athletes, why are there so many foreigners in the NHL, NBA and MLB? The argument doesn't even pass the "common sense" test.

Secondly, he believes that you can turn NFL players into rugby players. Even top rugby league players take two or three years to properly play rugby union. How long would it take someone who has never played a game of rugby? And that's assuming NFL players have the right physique for rugby. How would such players develop their skills? Would they all be sent to England? Who would they play against?

Thirdly, he underestimates the skill which the top rugby playing nations have. Rugby was a late developer as a professional sport in England, but the gains have been tremendous. The England side of today would slaughter the England side of 30 years ago. American rugby needs to be running hard merely to stand still.

The USA has made amazing progress in soccer. Yet, for all that grass roots movement, professional league and increased participation, the USA is still some way behind the top soccer playing nations. It would take 20 years for the USA just to reach an equivalent level in rugby.

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by SportBoy333
A hip hop mogul getting invloved with rugby ? Thats pretty bizarre considering rugby in the US is predominately a white middle class sport.

To pick up on Skipshady's point... if it wasn't for hip-hop's predominately white middle class audience, most of those guys wouldn't be living quite as large as they are.

[texgator]

It's funny, because I was thinking just the opposite. Get some rugby guys and teach 'em to play pointy ball. Remember New Orleans this past season, in a desperate attempt to save their playoff hopes, during a kickoff return, strung together a series of 4 or 5 "laterals" to score a TD. I heard several people joke that it was like a rugby match and they should have been awarded 5 points instead of 6. I got to thinking......hmmmm....if you could get a team together that really understood how to play the lateral well.....like they do in rugby.....modern defenses would be completely unprepared for it. I'm talking half-field length, laterals right to a full speeding teammate. Sure, there would be more fumbles then usual, but you could rip off some nice 40-60 yard runs that way.

[diablodelsol]

Originally posted by texgator
.....modern defenses would be completely unprepared for it. I'm talking half-field length, laterals right to a full speeding teammate. Sure, there would be more fumbles then usual, but you could rip off some nice 40-60 yard runs that way.

There is a reason why the forward pass completely changed the game.

[texgator]

Originally posted by diablodelsol
There is a reason why the forward pass completely changed the game.
Right, but now modern defenses are designed to prevent big pass plays, they would be completely caught off guard by this. Also, these plays could be run off of a small pass completion. You bunch three recievers on one side. One goes out for a short, 10 yard, pass, the other two back him up for a rugby style lateral. Kind of like the hook and ladder, only more organized. If a team, or even just the reciever corp, could get this down other teams would have to respect it. It could change the responsibilities and position of the safeties and linebackers completely, opening up the run play more.

[skipshady]

Originally posted by texgator
Right, but now modern defenses are designed to prevent big pass plays, they would be completely caught off guard by this. Also, these plays could be run off of a small pass completion. You bunch three recievers on one side. One goes out for a short, 10 yard, pass, the other two back him up for a rugby style lateral. Kind of like the hook and ladder, only more organized. If a team, or even just the reciever corp, could get this down other teams would have to respect it. It could change the responsibilities and position of the safeties and linebackers completely, opening up the run play more. I'd hate to dismiss your idea outright, but to make this work, you'd have to have linemen who can run downfield and keep up with the "skill" players. And these faster linemen are going to be woefully inadequate on traditional pass and run plays. Also, have you wondered why no NFL team runs the option?

[diablodelsol]

Originally posted by texgator
Right, but now modern defenses are designed to prevent big pass plays, they would be completely caught off guard by this. Also, these plays could be run off of a small pass completion. You bunch three recievers on one side. One goes out for a short, 10 yard, pass, the other two back him up for a rugby style lateral. Kind of like the hook and ladder, only more organized. If a team, or even just the reciever corp, could get this down other teams would have to respect it. It could change the responsibilities and position of the safeties and linebackers completely, opening up the run play more.


That's neat and all, but you do realise that you are only allowed to hit the ball carrier in rugby, right?


Basically, imagine how ineffectual the forward pass would be in American football if there was no such thing as pass interference.

Rugby, in a nutshell, has interference penalties on running plays, which is why laterals are an effective means to move the ball.

[Craig the Aussie]

The other thing you need to remember is that in rugby (union that is, not league), play does not stop when the ball carrier is tackled.

This means that a main thrust of the game is to build forward momentum through a number of phases, and get the defence into disarray and in offside positions. Once this happens the ball can be passed out wide where the gaps have developed.

My understanding of the finer points of american football is pretty hazy, but the big difference appears that the defence gets a chance to reset, adjust personnel etc after each phase of play - meaning less disorganisation and gaps.

[SamPierron]

Originally posted by salmacis
Secondly, he believes that you can turn NFL players into rugby players. Even top rugby league players take two or three years to properly play rugby union. How long would it take someone who has never played a game of rugby? And that's assuming NFL players have the right physique for rugby. How would such players develop their skills? Would they all be sent to England? Who would they play against?


Well, Dan Lyle went from NFL reject to rugby star in about 3 years, didn't he? And he's about all we have to work with as an example. He has said that he could take a team of NFL rejects and win regularly in club rugby within a year or two.

NFL physiques are the way they are because of the nature of the game. With rugby training, they'd look more like rugby players (better aerobic fitness, not quite as much emphasis on sheer bulk) in no time...and I think they'd do quite well. Do I think they'd beat the All Blacks overnight? No. Would they become Canada or Argentina in (relatively speaking) short order? Yes, I think so.

[PZ]

What's really funny is when I was watching him being interview (by Max Bretos) and making those comments, the name Don King kept popping in my head. He really did sound like he took lessons from Mr. King's school of how to promote.

[Snuffles]

Considering the US was in the rugby world cup, so is already a top 16 nation, getting further doesn't seem so far fetched.