What to Make of the Steroids Scandal?

[DoctorJones24]

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpa2lpNnFzBF9TAzk1ODYxNzc3BHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=ap-athletes-steroids&prov=ap&type=lgns

"WASHINGTON (AP) -- Barry Bonds' personal trainer and a coach for some of the world's top track stars were among four people charged Thursday with running a steroid-distribution ring that provided performance-enhancing drugs to dozens of athletes.

A 42-count indictment returned by a grand jury in San Francisco described in detail how a nutritional supplements lab -- Bay Area Lab Cooperative or BALCO -- allegedly provided the drugs from December 2001 to September 2003 to major league baseball and NFL players, Olympics-caliber track stars and bodybuilders.

No sports figures were named, but Attorney General John Ashcroft left open the possibility some could be charged later."

[DoctorJones24]

Just saw the article on the baseball World Cup thread about how one of the major remaining roadblocks is an "appropriate drug testing program" that the MLB Players Union would agree to.

Embarrassing and pathetic. Sorry to say, but a few high profile careers (Bonds, Giambi?) will have to be ruined if MLB is ever going to take things seriously.

I thought I heard on CNN tonight that the athletes who testified (which includes these two obvious cheaters) did so in exchange for immunity. But I was out of the room, so I wasn't sure if they were talking specifically about past testimonies or possible future ones.

How bout for fun, we each come up with our own: "Top Ten Most Obvious MLB Steroids Users"

Here's mine:

10) Frank Thomas
9) Javy Lopez (Had a great idea for his contract year, apparently. Please.)
8) Sammy Sosa (Knows lots of ways to cheat!)
7) Jeff Bagwell
6) Eric Gagne (Give me a break. Crappy weak starter to pycho closer in one year? Ridiculous bulk-up job)
5) Albert Pujols (Blatant)
4) Roger Clemens (Throwing the bat at Piazza. Can you say "Steroid Rage?")
3) Brett Boone (Wasn't he a little 2nd baseman a couple years ago?)
2) Jason Giambi (Big Mac taught him everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, he knows)
1) Barry Bonds (The guy's skull is actually expanding)

[soccernutter]

Wouldn't surprise me to find the Clemens would be on that list as well.

[655321]

Originally posted by DoctorJones24
1) Barry Bonds (The guy's skull is actually expanding)

Then please explain his incredible new laid back demeanor?? I mean, something doesn't add up...

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by DoctorJones24
How bout for fun, we each come up with our own: "Top Ten Most Obvious MLB Steroids Users"

Here's mine:

10) Frank Thomas
9) Javy Lopez (Had a great idea for his contract year, apparently. Please.)
8) Sammy Sosa (Knows lots of ways to cheat!)
7) Jeff Bagwell
6) Eric Gagne (Give me a break. Crappy weak starter to pycho closer in one year? Ridiculous bulk-up job)
5) Albert Pujols (Blatant)
4) Roger Clemens (Throwing the bat at Piazza. Can you say "Steroid Rage?")
3) Brett Boone (Wasn't he a little 2nd baseman a couple years ago?)
2) Jason Giambi (Big Mac taught him everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, he knows)
1) Barry Bonds (The guy's skull is actually expanding)

No list of my own, just critical commentary :D

Don't know about Frank Thomas. I saw him play for Auburn when he was in college, and he was a pretty big boy even then. I thought he looked more like a tight end than a baseball player. Of course, I think he did play some football for Auburn, and that may indicate that he's no stranger to the 'roid.

Interesting theory on Clemens, too. I seem to remember him being less than fit when he left the Red Sox, and then he re-fires his career with a commitment to fitness wherein his gut is gone and he suddenly has a neck. And Gagne too... and haven't people in baseball (usually pitchers) said that pitchers have nothing to gain from steroids?

As for Bonds... maybe he's the first player to experiment with a steroid-Zoloft compound? 655321 is right in that something doesn't add up... but the addition to Bond's cap-size is one of the factors in the equation.

[Metros#1]

Originally posted by DoctorJones24
Just saw the article on the baseball World Cup thread about how one of the major remaining roadblocks is an "appropriate drug testing program" that the MLB Players Union would agree to.

Embarrassing and pathetic. Sorry to say, but a few high profile careers (Bonds, Giambi?) will have to be ruined if MLB is ever going to take things seriously.

I thought I heard on CNN tonight that the athletes who testified (which includes these two obvious cheaters) did so in exchange for immunity. But I was out of the room, so I wasn't sure if they were talking specifically about past testimonies or possible future ones.

How bout for fun, we each come up with our own: "Top Ten Most Obvious MLB Steroids Users"

Here's mine:

10) Frank Thomas
9) Javy Lopez (Had a great idea for his contract year, apparently. Please.)
8) Sammy Sosa (Knows lots of ways to cheat!)
7) Jeff Bagwell
6) Eric Gagne (Give me a break. Crappy weak starter to pycho closer in one year? Ridiculous bulk-up job)
5) Albert Pujols (Blatant)
4) Roger Clemens (Throwing the bat at Piazza. Can you say "Steroid Rage?")
3) Brett Boone (Wasn't he a little 2nd baseman a couple years ago?)
2) Jason Giambi (Big Mac taught him everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, he knows)
1) Barry Bonds (The guy's skull is actually expanding) The home run record should go back to 61 or at least 70.

I never heard anything about Roger Maris taking drugs. Big Mac took drugs (legal but only in MLB) but no evidences of illegal steroid so far. He’s also massive with great power (HR per at-bat) from the beginning. All in all, his record may be debatable.

OTOH, I have little doubt that Bonds bulked up with the help of illegal steroid so those line drives off the wall and warning-track fly balls turned into home runs. He should NOT have the record.

[JMMUSA8]

paraphrasin from Robin Williams, steriods does two things - your head gets bigger and your balls get smaller. So when they step up to plate and they have a huge watermelon with two raisinets, YOU'RE OUT!

[skipshady]

Originally posted by Metros#1
THe’s also massive with great power (HR per at-bat) from the beginning.Are you sure about that?
http://www.cramercollectibles.com/88toymac.jpg

Just looking at seasons in which he played at least 100 games, from 1986 to 1992, he McGwire hit 217 home runs in 3070 at bats, or 0.071 HR per at-bat. The only years he hit 0.90 HR/AB was 1992, when his HR total jumped to 42 from 22 the previous season.

Then, he had a couple of injury-shortened seasons and came back to hit 39 HR in 317 at-bats, or .12 HR/AB.
Between 1995 and 1999, his last 100-game season, he hit 284 HR in 2310 AB, .123 HR/AB. The only year his HR/AB dipped below .120 was 1997, when he hit 52 HR in 540 AB (.107 HR/AB).

His final two seasons were marred by injuries, but he did manage to drive in 32 HR in 236 AB (.136 HR/AB) in 2000 and 29 HR in 299 AB (.970 HR/AB) in 2001. By 2001, the he was no longer an effective every day player, hitting just .183, the lowest batting average since his first season. But his HR/AB was still better than any season before 1995.

Now, I'm not saying he used illegal steroids and I concede that the jump in his numbers occurred at around the same time as baseball entered the Long Ball Era, but to imply that the power stats early in his career is comparable to his later years is misleading.

[soccernutter]

Originally posted by Dr. Wankler
Interesting theory on Clemens, too. I seem to remember him being less than fit when he left the Red Sox, and then he re-fires his career with a commitment to fitness wherein his gut is gone and he suddenly has a neck. And Gagne too... and haven't people in baseball (usually pitchers) said that pitchers have nothing to gain from steroids?


Supposedly one of the benefits of the Bonds steroid is faster recovery time. That seems to benefit pitchers most. If Brown has an injury free season, then I'll put him on the list as well. And what about Schilling?

[655321]

Well, whether this applies to Bonds or not...he's gonna get massacred by the media over this.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=10&u=/ap/20040217/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/athletes_steroids_7

[Motterman]

Originally posted by 655321
Well, whether this applies to Bonds or not...he's gonna get massacred by the media over this.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=10&u=/ap/20040217/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/athletes_steroids_7

I'm shocked to see the guy's real name in this story.

It thought for sure that his name was actually "Bonds Personal Trainer".

"Bonds Personal Trainer" under investigation....

"Bonds Personal Trainer" arrested for steroids....

"Bonds Personal Trainer" admits to....