VfB Stuttgart - Pushing for Europe, 08/09 Season Thread Part III (R)

[Rainer24]

What's a "Wenger Player" seem like to you and why doesn't Huntelaar seem like one to you?

Robin van Persie has been one hell of a "Wenger Player" and there isn't that much difference between him and Huntelaar.


Oh, I think there is quite a bit of difference. Van Persie is much more technical and can also create for others and provide a real threat from set pieces, has the ability to attack from the wings. I think Huntelaar is pretty much a finisher's finisher and doesn't offer much beyond that, which is fine. He's straight ahead goalscorer, which would be good. I just don't see him in the mold of guys like Bergkamp, Henry, Van Persie, who can/could all provide just as well as they could slot it home themselves. Adebayor isn't that type of striker either, which is why I think, in addition to him being simply out for the biggest payday he can get, Arsenal are willing to let him leave.

[Chimaera]

personally, i don't think Arsenal is where he goes. I think they're content to let things play out without adebayor and keep developing their younger guys and rely on RVP.

As for Huntelaar, I think he would look good in Italy, as it fits his style a bit more. I think he could replace the goal scoring to an extent, and possibly be a bit more healthy. In either case, if he happens to come, if he plays decently well, the worst VfB could do would be to get what they paid for him back. Whoever gets him is getting him at a cut rate compared to his value.

[benztown]

I don't have time to work on translating nor have I read the article linked below fully.

Can one of you explain it if you have the time??


Thanks.



Transfermarkt.de: Sparen abgeschafft: VfB Stuttgart bereit zum Risiko (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/news/29667/sparen-abgeschafft-vfb-stuttgart-bereit-zum-risiko.html)

It's a report about the annual meeting of the club members.
In a nutshell:

Host Heldt: "We will invest money as this club has never seen before...we need a little more patience, but we will present a great reinforcement...the transfer market is overheated right now. Quick signings have been disproportionally expensive so far."

Erwin Staudt: "From now on, Stuttgart will be able to compete when it comes to big transfer fees...Stuttgart isn't looking for filling material. We are looking for experienced international players who will bring us forward."

Jens Lehmann: "A Mario Gomez replacement alone isn't enough. We need a little more."

Ulrich Ruf: "We are willing to take some risks but it also has to be reasonable."

Markus Babbel: "These kinds of players won't be cheap. I'm experienced enough in this kind of business to not start becoming nervous...We are Swabians after all. We want quality, not benchwarmers."

[Rainer24]

I don't think € 20 million really counts as cut rate. Easy to lose perspective with the Ronaldo and Kaka deals, but that is still a lot of money for a player.

[benztown]

Some other positive news:

http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/15072009/73/bundesliga-heldt-kriegen-huntelaar-hin.html

Heldt: "We will make Huntelaar happen."

Also, Marca reports that a Stuttgart delegation is in Madrid today and a deal could be signed by tonight.

Other reports say that a decision will be made before Friday.

[benztown]

I don't think € 20 million really counts as cut rate. Easy to lose perspective with the Ronaldo and Kaka deals, but that is still a lot of money for a player.

Very true. I can't think of many Bundesliga signings that exceeded €20m.
Gomez, Ribery and Amoroso to be precise. And if I'm not mistaken, the Amoroso deal was exaggerated by bringing in Evanilson into the deal who was valued at €17m, which was of course ridiculous.

[footyfan1]

Oh, I think there is quite a bit of difference. Van Persie is much more technical and can also create for others and provide a real threat from set pieces, has the ability to attack from the wings. I think Huntelaar is pretty much a finisher's finisher and doesn't offer much beyond that, which is fine. He's straight ahead goalscorer, which would be good. I just don't see him in the mold of guys like Bergkamp, Henry, Van Persie, who can/could all provide just as well as they could slot it home themselves. Adebayor isn't that type of striker either, which is why I think, in addition to him being simply out for the biggest payday he can get, Arsenal are willing to let him leave.

OK. I can see that. However, every team can use a "straight-ahead goal-scorer."

I don't believe Wenger only considers "creative" strikers. If that were the case, Bentdner would be gone already.

And take another look at van Persie's game. In the past two years, he's been closer to that "straight-ahead goal-scorer" than one who looks to set up......

[benztown]

Regarding Arsenal:

Aren't they after Marouane Chamakh? Sounds to me like Huntelaar could be their Plan B or even Plan C. So at this point, I'm not too worried.

[Chimaera]

I don't think € 20 million really counts as cut rate. Easy to lose perspective with the Ronaldo and Kaka deals, but that is still a lot of money for a player.


I guess it is important to consider, but with the market still going up, and considering what he cost just a transfer period ago, I can't imagine his value drops much unless he just plays awful.

I think Huntelaar is the goods. If he comes in and scores, other teams will be at least willing to give what VfB pays and some extra. If Gomez is worth what he was worth, then I wouldn't be shocked to see some club make it worth VfB's time.

[Chimaera]

I think Bentdner is part of the reason they wouldn't be in for him. In spite of his issues with stumbling out of night clubs, I think AW is more than fine with him playing a bigger role with the club. He's got a lot of talent, he just needs time on the pitch.

[footyfan1]

Very true. I can't think of many Bundesliga signings that exceeded €20m.
Gomez, Ribery and Amoroso to be precise. And if I'm not mistaken, the Amoroso deal was exaggerated by bringing in Evanilson into the deal who was valued at €17m, which was of course ridiculous.


It wasn't that f#cking ridiculous.

We were dealing German Marks at that time. As I remember, we paid Parma 30M Marks and Evanilson was valued at 20M Marks.

Which at that time, he was close to being worth. MARKS, not Euros.

Evanilson only had one or two good seasons after that because his dumb ass got caught up in the party scene up in NRW, but at the time, he was a damned good player.

The media, both clubs, and UEFA put that valuation on Evanilson. Whether you disagree or not, it is official.


I've said before that I don't think you guys should be paying Real what you're paying for Huntelaar because they are trying to dump him.

I still stand by that, but I'm not going to call anything about it "ridiculous."

You're doing what you feel you have to do.

[Rainer24]

OK. I can see that. However, every team can use a "straight-ahead goal-scorer."

I don't believe Wenger only considers "creative" strikers. If that were the case, Bentdner would be gone already.

And take another look at van Persie's game. In the past two years, he's been closer to that "straight-ahead goal-scorer" than one who looks to set up......


Yeah, I agree that he would be a good signing for them, but I'm just not that afraid of losing him to them. Van Persie has had so many injuries lately. Dangerous move for them to pin all their hopes on him.

[benztown]

It wasn't that f#cking ridiculous.

We were dealing German Marks at that time. As I remember, we paid Parma 30M Marks and Evanilson was valued at 20M Marks.

Which at that time, he was close to being worth. MARKS, not Euros.

Evanilson only had one or two good seasons after that because his dumb ass got caught up in the party scene up in NRW, but at the time, he was a damned good player.

The media, both clubs, and UEFA put that valuation on Evanilson. Whether you disagree or not, it is official.


I've said before that I don't think you guys should be paying Real what you're paying for Huntelaar because they are trying to dump him.

I still stand by that, but I'm not going to call anything about it "ridiculous."

You're doing what you feel you have to do.

Hmm..ok, you're the expert when it comes to Dortmund. transfermarkt.de states that he was sold for 17 million virtual Euros, but they also say that Dortmund bought him back two years later for €15m. So it seems to me that the high Amoroso price was mostly legit and that Evanilson was brought in only to delay full payment or something like this.

Anyway, I was pretty much trying to say with this that €20m for Huntelaar is indeed too much. But I also think that at this point, it's pretty much unavoidable if a club like Stuttgart wants to get as good an Gomez replacement as possible. We don't have the standing of a team like Milan, so we have to pay extra.

[footyfan1]

Hmm..ok, you're the expert when it comes to Dortmund. transfermarkt.de states that he was sold for 17 million virtual Euros, but they also say that Dortmund bought him back two years later for €15m. So it seems to me that the high Amoroso price was mostly legit and that Evanilson was brought in only to delay full payment or something like this.


That's what I've always believed. We took Evanilson on loan for two seasons before finally buying him back.

Little did we know those would be his last two pretty productive seasons......



Anyway, I was pretty much trying to say with this that €20m for Huntelaar is indeed too much. But I also think that at this point, it's pretty much unavoidable if a club like Stuttgart wants to get as good an Gomez replacement as possible. We don't have the standing of a team like Milan, so we have to pay extra.


Stuttgart's "standing" has nothing to do with why Huntelaar is costing you 20M. You're not paying more because you don't have Milan's "standing". You're paying more because you chose to OUTBID Milan for the player.

He hasn't signed yet because Stuttgart doesn't have Milan's standing........

[benztown]

T
Stuttgart's "standing" has nothing to do with why Huntelaar is costing you 20M. You're not paying more because you don't have Milan's "standing". You're paying more because you chose to OUTBID Milan for the player.

He hasn't signed yet because Stuttgart doesn't have Milan's standing........

Well, that's the point. Unless we outbid teams like Milan, there's no chance in hell a player like Huntelaar would actually sign with us. If both of us would offer Real €15m, then obviously he wouldn't come to Stuttgart. By offering €20m, we forced Milan out, since they don't have to overpay in order to get a top player. They just move on.

The only reason we have a chance to get Huntelaar is because
a) he has no future in Madrid,
and
b) we are able to overpay.

[footyfan1]

Well, that's the point. Unless we outbid teams like Milan, there's no chance in hell a player like Huntelaar would actually sign with us. If both of us would offer Real €15m, then obviously he wouldn't come to Stuttgart. By offering €20m, we forced Milan out, since they don't have to overpay in order to get a top player. They just move on.

The only reason we have a chance to get Huntelaar is because
a) he has no future in Madrid,
and
b) we are able to overpay.


You didn't "force" Milan out. If they bid between 15-20 and the player wants to join them, he can also force Madrid's hand by refusing to sign with you.

The worst thing that can happen to him is that he gets stuck in Madrid getting paid to do nothing.

I hate to sound like an a-hole, but in addition to the reasons you gave, the only other reason Huntelaar is considering you guys at all is because he needs to play somewhere with the World Cup coming up next season.

Trust me, if it weren't for that, he wouldn't even consider Stuttgart even with the factors you mentioned being true.

Somehow Klaas-Jan Huntelaar has it in his mind that he's among the top strikers in Europe and he really isn't.

He's a hell of a finisher, but already seems to be a legend in his own mind.

I feel the Dutch and English medias along with Real are responsible for that.

[Rainer24]

I dunno. I haven't seen the evidence that he has a huge head, but Real is trying to treat him like one of the great players in the world. We've never seen him do anything outside the Eredivisie, which we all know is not what it was even ten years ago.

[footyfan1]

I dunno. I haven't seen the evidence that he has a huge head, but Real is trying to treat him like one of the great players in the world. We've never seen him do anything outside the Eredivisie, which we all know is not what it was even ten years ago.


I checked out his scoring record from last season when someone else asked me to look at the feasibility of paying for him.

He fed on lower clubs.

[ugen64]

I think Bentdner is part of the reason they wouldn't be in for him. In spite of his issues with stumbling out of night clubs, I think AW is more than fine with him playing a bigger role with the club. He's got a lot of talent, he just needs time on the pitch.

Wenger said himself that Bendtner was "set up" in that night club issue

the only problems I have with Bendtner are his inconsistent finishing and his work rate. if he fixes either (or both) of these issues I would be perfectly fine with him as an Adebayor replacement.

I would rate Huntelaar's chance of going to Arsenal as about 1%. I just don't see him as fitting well in the Premier League. look at Afonso Alves - he was just as good a goalscorer in Holland, and completely flopped in England. Chamakh I think is either staying in Bordeaux or going to Sunderland. I expect we will sign someone who hasn't even been linked to us yet.

my point of course is that Stuttgart are still in the lead for Huntelaar.

[benztown]

Wenger said himself that Bendtner was "set up" in that night club issue

the only problems I have with Bendtner are his inconsistent finishing and his work rate. if he fixes either (or both) of these issues I would be perfectly fine with him as an Adebayor replacement.

I would rate Huntelaar's chance of going to Arsenal as about 1%. I just don't see him as fitting well in the Premier League. look at Afonso Alves - he was just as good a goalscorer in Holland, and completely flopped in England. Chamakh I think is either staying in Bordeaux or going to Sunderland. I expect we will sign someone who hasn't even been linked to us yet.

my point of course is that Stuttgart are still in the lead for Huntelaar.

I've just read that Arsenal are now linked to Demba Ba...Now that would be something :D