VfB Stuttgart - Pushing for Europe, 08/09 Season Thread Part III (R)

[benztown]

Real's evaluation of 20-25m euros is absolutely ridiculous considering they are selling him after half a season! :eek: They paid 15 or 20m in the first place for him didn't they? You guys would have to be quite ignorant if you pay a cent more than 20m imo, 15m euros would be a fair deal for both parties. Real Madrid want to get him out no matter what and there aren't a lot of clubs who will pay such an amount.


I think I've read somewhere that Real paid €27m for Huntelaar, but I could be mistaken...
Anyway, at this point, I'd be really happy if we could get him for €20m, especially if the alternative is an injured Demba Ba for €15m. IMHO, Huntelaar is one of the best strikers in Europe. I think Real is stupid as it is to make him leave. I'd even take Huntelaar over Benzema...but who am I to complain as long as we have a shot at him...

In my view, Huntelaar is the closest thing to a Mario Gomez replacement out there and if we can go out of these transfers with Huntelaar in the team and a €15m surplus, then I think we made a very good deal. That is of course IF we can get him. I'm still somewhat skeptic, but I'd be psyched if we could land him...

[footyfan1]

I think I've read somewhere that Real paid €27m for Huntelaar, but I could be mistaken...


AFAIK, Real paid 20M for Huntelaar with no incentive clauses. I remember my best Ajax fan bud being giddy because he didn't think they'd get that much for Huntelaar.


Anyway, at this point, I'd be really happy if we could get him for €20m, especially if the alternative is an injured Demba Ba for €15m.


From what I understand, Ba's "injury" is nothing bad. Wasn't it that he just hadn't fully recovered from a minor procedure yet???


IMHO, Huntelaar is one of the best strikers in Europe.


One of the best strikers in Europe? What? What are you talking about? Top five? Top ten, Top fifteen??

Dude, he's only the third-best striker on the Real roster now.

If he were "one of the top strikers in Europe", not only would Real not be making him leave, but clubs would be lined up to give them 20M for him.


I think Real is stupid as it is to make him leave. I'd even take Huntelaar over Benzema... but who am I to complain as long as we have a shot at him...


When you say you'd take Huntelaar over Benzema are you saying you believe Huntelaar is better than Benzema??

If you are, I have to say, dude, put down the crack pipe. Huntelaar is very good, but better than Benzema, I think not!

Real is letting Huntelaar go because they already have two strikers on their roster younger AND BETTER than Huntelaar (Higuain and Benzema) and a guy who is nearly as good, if not as good, in Alvaro Negredo.




In my view, Huntelaar is the closest thing to a Mario Gomez replacement out there

This, I can agree with. But I hope you don't mean Huntelaar is as good. Because he isn't. Again, Huntelaar is very good, but not as good as you seem to either think he is or want him to be if he joins Stuttgart.


and if we can go out of these transfers with Huntelaar in the team and a €15m surplus, then I think we made a very good deal. That is of course IF we can get him. I'm still somewhat skeptic, but I'd be psyched if we could land him...

As far as price goes, I'm with EQ. I would not pay 20M for a guy Real paid 20M for a half-season ago and are already trying to push him out.

Believe me, I know Real is choosing to go in another direction, but they're not totally crazy. If Huntelaar was as good as you're making him out to be here, Real would be keeping him.

Huntelaar is very good, but Real realizes this is a guy they can get some money for and they don't need anymore. Therefore, they are trying to recoup as much of their paid transfer fee as they can.

With some of your Huntelaar comments, if you do get him, I think you're setting yourself up for some disappointment.

Again, Huntelaar is very good, but I believe you're seriously overrating him man.

I'd actually compare Huntelaar to a young Luca Toni. And that's compare, not saying "as good as".

I actually believe Huntelaar and Ba would put up right around the same numbers for you guys.

They would just go about getting there in different ways.........

[Rainer24]

Milan claiming to have made an offer complicates thing. We are going to have to offer more than them to get him.


I think Huntelaar is really good. I think he's actually very similar to Mario in that he can finish with either foot. I think his shot is better, but Mario is a couple years younger, bigger, maybe better with the ball. Above all, Huntelaar is a finisher, and that is the ultimate quality you want at the position.

I think we need to get this guy. I don't care if we have to pay five million more than Milan will offer. They are more prestigious, so the price will be higher for us, but we need to make a move.

[benztown]

AFAIK, Real paid 20M for Huntelaar with no incentive clauses. I remember my best Ajax fan bud being giddy because he didn't think they'd get that much for Huntelaar.

Maybe I do see him a little to optimistically, but I've always rated him very highly. As for his price, unfortunately, this transfer season seems to be rather expensive in general. Transfer fees have been inflated, especially by Real itself and their ridiculous spending spree...

But again, I think that Huntelaar is well worth the extra €5m over Ba.

From what I understand, Ba's "injury" is nothing bad. Wasn't it that he just hadn't fully recovered from a minor procedure yet???

It's all prety unclear at this point. He did have a major injury 2 years ago and the surgery he had after the end of this season was a remainder of that old injury. But now, it doesn't heal the way it's supposed to. Right now nobody could say for sure how long it takes Ba to recover. It might turn out to be minor, it might turn out to be very serious. But in any case, Stuttgart seems to be doubtful whether he can fully recover by August when our CL qualification matches will be.

One of the best strikers in Europe? What? What are you talking about? Top five? Top ten, Top fifteen??

Dude, he's only the third-best striker on the Real roster now.

If he were "one of the top strikers in Europe", not only would Real not be making him leave, but clubs would be lined up to give them 20M for him.

Well, I don't keep a list with my top strikers in Europe, but I'd say he's around the top 15...in any case, he's beyond the realm of international strikers who are usually accessible to our team.

When you say you'd take Huntelaar over Benzema are you saying you believe Huntelaar is better than Benzema??

If you are, I have to say, dude, put down the crack pipe. Huntelaar is very good, but better than Benzema, I think not!

Real is letting Huntelaar go because they already have two strikers on their roster younger AND BETTER than Huntelaar (Higuain and Benzema) and a guy who is nearly as good, if not as good, in Alvaro Negredo.

From what I've seen, I'd chose Huntelaar over Benzema. Benzema is younger, so he probably has a bigger chance of still improving, but judging simply from their performances, yeah, I actually think Huntelaar is better.

This, I can agree with. But I hope you don't mean Huntelaar is as good. Because he isn't. Again, Huntelaar is very good, but not as good as you seem to either think he is or want him to be if he joins Stuttgart.

I'd put Huntelaar behind Gomez. What I meant here is that their style of play is quite similar. When it comes to headers, Huntelaar is even slightly better, but overall, I'd have preferred to keep Gomez of course.

As far as price goes, I'm with EQ. I would not pay 20M for a guy Real paid 20M for a half-season ago and are already trying to push him out.

Believe me, I know Real is choosing to go in another direction, but they're not totally crazy. If Huntelaar was as good as you're making him out to be here, Real would be keeping him.

Huntelaar is very good, but Real realizes this is a guy they can get some money for and they don't need anymore. Therefore, they are trying to recoup as much of their paid transfer fee as they can.

With some of your Huntelaar comments, if you do get him, I think you're setting yourself up for some disappointment.

Again, Huntelaar is very good, but I believe you're seriously overrating him man.

I'd actually compare Huntelaar to a young Luca Toni. And that's compare, not saying "as good as".

I actually believe Huntelaar and Ba would put up right around the same numbers for you guys.

They would just go about getting there in different ways.........

Young Luca Toni? You mean the Luca Toni who lost his starting spot at Brescia Calcio and who then went to Seria B? No, Huntelaar is not as good as young Luca Toni, he's miles ahead. Toni was a late bloomer, Huntelaar has already shown that he can score consistently on a high level at his young age.

As for Ba, while I think that he could really help us, he's much more of a risk. Not only because of his injury, but also because he only had one good season so far and it wasn't like he was stellar either. He was good, but not €15m good. I could easily see Ba turning out to be another Akpoborie: Decent, but nowhere near the guy he replaced...

As for Real Madrid, I've recently read an article on the Bild website, citing some official from Real, explaining their transfer strategy. It was rather simple: Get the best player from every league in Europe: Ronaldo from England, Kaka from Italy, Ribery from Germany and Benzema from France. If that was really their train of thought, then I'd say they honestly have gone mad.

In this scheme, of course they don't need Huntelaar. I mean it would be rather dumb to buy a Benzema only to put him on the bench.
[And I do get the feeling that Real has enough of their Dutch players...I mean they've all been put on the market...]
On the other hand, that's good for us, because otherwise, we wouldn't have a shot at someone of Huntelaar's calibre.

And again about the price: I never said it's justified. I simply said that looking at the way things are at the moment, I'd be happy to get him for €20m. We'll have to accept an inflated price whoever we're going to buy. Demba Ba would be around €15m, Vagner Love probably also close to €20m.

I'd really like to see Stuttgart pulling off the CL qualification and also us making an impact on the CL itself. But in order to do that, we just have to take a risk now.

[footyfan1]

Milan claiming to have made an offer complicates thing. We are going to have to offer more than them to get him.


Milan has to save face. They failed in getting Dzeko and Adebayor and their fans are still royally P!SSED OFF about the sale of Kaka to Real.

Wolfsburg is said to be interested in Huntelaar too, but I think they are looking at a loan deal.


I think Huntelaar is really good. I think he's actually very similar to Mario in that he can finish with either foot. I think his shot is better, but Mario is a couple years younger, bigger, maybe better with the ball. Above all, Huntelaar is a finisher, and that is the ultimate quality you want at the position.

This I agree with. Huntelaar is a very good finisher. However, I don't know about Huntelaar's shot being better. I don't doubt it could be, I just don't know. However, I also don't believe Huntelaar is worth 20M, especially when you can get Demba Ba for 5-8M Euros less.

Again, I don't believe this "injury" business on Ba is as serious as it is being made out to be. I believe this is a "bargaining chip" for VfB.


I think we need to get this guy. I don't care if we have to pay five million more than Milan will offer. They are more prestigious, so the price will be higher for us, but we need to make a move.

Don't forget, Milan also has the Kaka money. They can see and raise any bid you guys put out there.

The main advantage you guys have is that you're in the CL.

But as you mentioned, Milan is the bigger "name" and that might be more attractive to Huntelaar. I also think he'd do better in Serie A than in the Bundesliga.

Tighter defense is played in the Bundesliga........ :o

[Rainer24]

Milan has to save face. They failed in getting Dzeko and Adebayor and their fans are still royally P!SSED OFF about the sale of Kaka to Real.

Wolfsburg is said to be interested in Huntelaar too, but I think they are looking at a loan deal.




This I agree with. Huntelaar is a very good finisher. However, I don't know about Huntelaar's shot being better. I don't doubt it could be, I just don't know. However, I also don't believe Huntelaar is worth 20M, especially when you can get Demba Ba for 5-8M Euros less.

Again, I don't believe this "injury" business on Ba is as serious as it is being made out to be. I believe this is a "bargaining chip" for VfB.




Don't forget, Milan also has the Kaka money. They can see and raise any bid you guys put out there.

The main advantage you guys have is that you're in the CL.

But as you mentioned, Milan is the bigger "name" and that might be more attractive to Huntelaar. I also think he'd do better in Serie A than in the Bundesliga.

Tighter defense is played in the Bundesliga........ :o


Agree with pretty much everything up to the last point. I don't know how you figure tighter defense is played in the Bundesliga.

There were 2.92 goals per Bundesliga match, compared to 2.46 in Serie A, and the numbers have been along those lines for years now. The Bundesliga is the undisputed king among the big leagues in terms of goal-scoring action.

[benztown]

http://www.goal.com/es/news/21/fichajes/2009/07/08/1370709/mercado-llegará-un-solo-punta-y-no-será-huntelaar-aclara

Claridad, en este entido, no le falta: "Huntelaar irá al Stuttgart, Luis Fabiano es nuestro único objetivo".

Now my Spanish is a little rusty, but this is a quote by Adriano Galliani from AC Milan who according to a Google translation says: "Huntelaar will go to Stuttgart, Luis Fabiano is our only goal."

I'm delaying my celebrations until www.vfb.de has confirmed this, but it does sound very good...:D

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Don't bother celebrating, goal.com is a crackpot site. That article means nothing. :(


Huntelaar would be too good to be true. I mean really, if we bought him I would be so ecstatic. Kicker, Spox, Stuttgarter Zeitung all writing that it could happen. But I don't want to believe, it would be so insane. The shitty thing of all these rumors is they're starting to get my hopes up...

Rangnick says the decision on Ba has to come today or tomorrow. I think if anything with Huntelaar, or even Love, were to work out, we'll get them instead of Ba. Ba we can have. So if there is no major progress made on our other options, we will I think just get what we can with Ba. If the other negotiations are moving forward strongly, we'll choose not to get him. Either way I see a lot more clarity within the coming days....

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

http://www.stuttgarterzeitung.de/stz/page/2118425_0_9223_-20-millionen-euro-transfer-der-vfb-plant-den-coup-mit-huntelaar.html

Stz saying a Huntelaar transfer would be 'The biggest transfer-coup in VfB's history'. I agree 100%.

They write that Huntelaar doesn't want to go to Milan or Man U, absolute top clubs, because he wants to have a guaranteed starting spot to challenge for a place at the 2010 world cup.

My god why am I hearing all these encouraging things...

[benztown]

Don't bother celebrating, goal.com is a crackpot site. That article means nothing. :(


That's what I think. However, this article, as well as others in Italy and Spain claim that Milan has officially withdrawn from negotiations with Real Madrid. They do not want to call our €20m and are instead going for Luis Fabiano who they can apparently have for €25m.

This of course means that our chances have immediately risen by a substantial amount. Without Milan in the running, I don't see what could possibly go wrong...well ManU could still spoil the party, but their interest seems to have faded away over the last weeks...

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

I so hope you are right

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

OK... well goal.com is a crackpot site, but gazzetta dello sport is not... and now they're quoting what Galliani said as well.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Calciomercato/08-07-2009/galliani-un-solo-obiettivo-50709202951.shtml


I seriously need to get away from the internet for a few hours...

[footyfan1]

Agree with pretty much everything up to the last point. I don't know how you figure tighter defense is played in the Bundesliga.

There were 2.92 goals per Bundesliga match, compared to 2.46 in Serie A, and the numbers have been along those lines for years now. The Bundesliga is the undisputed king among the big leagues in terms of goal-scoring action.


Terms of "goal-scoring action?" Please man. Instead of just going by AVERAGES, watch actual matches from both leagues.


And that's what you're trying to tell me? That an "average" is more reliable than actually watching what happens on the pitch??

I'm laughing my ass off here. You're trying to tell me that a .46 difference over an entire season is some significant amount?

I expect that from the German press, not someone who actually knows the game and I do believe you know the game.

That .46 difference can be made by a few blowouts (kantersiegen??).

For instance, on matchday 33 of last season, Germany had three blowouts. Wolfsburg beat Hannover 5-0, Dortmund beat Bielefeld 6-0 and Leverkusen beat Gladbach 5-0.

I'd say matches like that do wonders for a goal-scoring AVERAGE, wouldn't you?


However, would you say those matches really mean that one league is so much better than the other in goal-scoring or does it mean the distance between the top teams and bottom teams in one league is greater than the other??

Especially when you see that in Serie A, there were only two "blowouts" over the final five match days in total!

So again, is it really that the Bundesliga is "the undisputed king among the big leagues in terms of goal-scoring action" as you say or just that the Bundesliga had more blowouts than Serie A??

Dude, do just a bit your own research and stop drinking the Kool-Aid the German media feeds you. They are full of shit and know most fans won't do the research themselves.

Their numbers are factual, but they stick them up there as if there is some great difference between the Bundesliga and the other three of the "Big Four" when in most cases, the difference can be alluded to a few more blowouts and the fact that the Bundesliga plays FOUR FEWER MATCHES than the others!

Plus, in Serie A, save for a couple of the top teams, defense is accentuated more. However, in Germany, the game itself is more balanced.

Again, watch the actual matches from time to time and compare the two leagues.

Averages prove nothing.

In my opinion, while the Bundesliga might have the better average goal-scoring, no league is better in terms of "attacking action" or "action period" than the Premiership. However, while there is plenty of action in the Premiership, the football itself isn't great.

I think the Bundesliga is the best balanced league of them all and that's why I watch the Bundesliga for quality football.

But that "Average goals per match" crap is just that. Crap.

A crap stat used as a "feel-good" story....... :rolleyes:

[footyfan1]

OK... well goal.com is a crackpot site, but gazzetta dello sport is not... and now they're quoting what Galliani said as well.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Calciomercato/08-07-2009/galliani-un-solo-obiettivo-50709202951.shtml


I seriously need to get away from the internet for a few hours...


He can say all he wants.

Right now, it looks like Luis Fabiano might also be heading for Madrid.......

The thing is, Real would love to do a Huntelaar deal first to help finance a Fabiano deal.

They've already given up on Ribery.

[Rainer24]

Terms of "goal-scoring action?" Please man. Instead of just going by AVERAGES, watch actual matches from both leagues.


And that's what you're trying to tell me? That an "average" is more reliable than actually watching what happens on the pitch??

I'm laughing my ass off here. You're trying to tell me that a .46 difference over an entire season is some significant amount?

I expect that from the German press, not someone who actually knows the game and I do believe you know the game.

That .46 difference can be made by a few blowouts (kantersiegen??).

For instance, on matchday 33 of last season, Germany had three blowouts. Wolfsburg beat Hannover 5-0, Dortmund beat Bielefeld 6-0 and Leverkusen beat Gladbach 5-0.

I'd say matches like that do wonders for a goal-scoring AVERAGE, wouldn't you?


However, would you say those matches really mean that one league is so much better than the other in goal-scoring or does it mean the distance between the top teams and bottom teams in one league is greater than the other??

Especially when you see that in Serie A, there were only two "blowouts" over the final five match days in total!

So again, is it really that the Bundesliga is "the undisputed king among the big leagues in terms of goal-scoring action" as you say or just that the Bundesliga had more blowouts than Serie A??

Dude, do just a bit your own research and stop drinking the Kool-Aid the German media feeds you. They are full of shit and know most fans won't do the research themselves.

Their numbers are factual, but they stick them up there as if there is some great difference between the Bundesliga and the other three of the "Big Four" when in most cases, the difference can be alluded to a few more blowouts and the fact that the Bundesliga plays FOUR FEWER MATCHES than the others!

Plus, in Serie A, save for a couple of the top teams, defense is accentuated more. However, in Germany, the game itself is more balanced.

Again, watch the actual matches from time to time and compare the two leagues.

Averages prove nothing.

In my opinion, while the Bundesliga might have the better average goal-scoring, no league is better in terms of "attacking action" or "action period" than the Premiership. However, while there is plenty of action in the Premiership, the football itself isn't great.

I think the Bundesliga is the best balanced league of them all and that's why I watch the Bundesliga for quality football.

But that "Average goals per match" crap is just that. Crap.

A crap stat used as a "feel-good" story....... :rolleyes:


What are you talking about? That's half a goal per match, so yes, that is definitely a significant amount. I'm not saying it's great or the ultimate form of the game, so don't try to force words into my mouth. It is a simple statistical fact that more goals are scored in the Bundesliga.

[footyfan1]

What are you talking about? That's half a goal per match, so yes, that is definitely a significant amount. I'm not saying it's great or the ultimate form of the game, so don't try to force words into my mouth. It is a simple statistical fact that more goals are scored in the Bundesliga.


A stat that means absolutely nothing. When was the last time you saw someone score "half a goal??" :rolleyes:

But if you want to believe it so badly that you're willing to ignore FACTUAL evidence that shows the stat is true, but doesn't mean much, go right ahead.

I'll take facts that pertain to the game itself over math.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Over the course of an entire season, .46 is a very large difference in my opinion.

9 times 34 is 306
306/2 is 153

That adds up to 153 goals difference.


EDIT: Whether that means anything about how attacking or defensive a league is, or what style a league has, is another question. It may mean something, it may not.


Nothing new on Huntelaar this afternoon.

[footyfan1]

Over the course of an entire season, .46 is a very large difference in my opinion.

9 times 34 is 306
306/2 is 153

That adds up to 153 goals difference.


Well, Serie A outscored the Bundesliga 988-894. But as I mentioned, Serie A also had four more match days.

You do the math. I'll go from what I see and what I can find by comparing actual random weekly scoring and who scored the goals against whom.

The numbers don't always tell the true story, do they??


EDIT: Whether that means anything about how attacking or defensive a league is, or what style a league has, is another question. It may mean something, it may not.


You actually mean to say that how the game is actually played in each league might not mean something? Are you sure you really want to say that???

You really mean to tell me that a bullshit stat might mean more than how the game is actually played???

Especially when I never disputed that the stat is fact, but it doesn't mean "The Bundesliga is the undisputed king among the big leagues in terms of goal-scoring action" as "Rainer24" stated.

It takes more than a bullshit AVERAGE stat to prove that.

Again, as I told him, do the research and you will find that much of the difference isn't goals scored week to week, but how many "blowouts" are registered in each league.

That's not "goal-scoring action". That's the difference in more teams being dominated in one league than the other.



Nothing new on Huntelaar this afternoon.


I'm thinking the Ba deal is going to get done tomorrow.........

No info. Just a hunch.

[Rainer24]

Footy, I really don't know what you are screaming about. Nobody is saying this is reflective of league quality. More goals are scored in the Bundesliga, period. I don't know why this is such a rubbing point for you. No one is saying it makes a league better. I really don't understand why you're getting so worked up over it.

[kaiser kraut]

Soccernet: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=659666&sec=transfers&cc=5901

Confirming what was earlier said about Milan pulling out of the race for Huntelaar and focusing on Fabiano. Also confirms that ManU might still have something to say in this deal.

So hopefully we'll get Huntelaar. I like what was mentioned about him wanting to start so he can get in on the WC team, where he'd be pressed for minutes at Milan or ManU. I think this means we have a bit of an advantage, but we still have to agree to a transfer fee. I really hope we negotiate the best we can and get below the 20M mark. I'm curious if we could use the remaining money to bolster other spots on our roster. Would Ba be an upgrade on our other strikers, if we could get both for under 35M? Would there be interest in that? Maybe if he failed the physical we can talk down the price to 10M or so and we'd still have a few million left over to add strength to our outside back positions? Just some random thoughts/ideas that I'd like your feedback on.