VfB Stuttgart - Pushing for Europe, 08/09 Season Thread Part III (R)

[Rainer24]

That is good news. Pischorn going to Karlsruhe is good news to me, because I think it signals that we are fairly certain of getting Niedermaier permanently.

[footyfan1]

Yup, and now VfB website also reporting that it is a done deal!

http://www.vfb.de/media/images/news_2009/celozzi1_174x174.jpg

Welcome, Celozzi! :)

I'm happy we've finally made a decent transfer! As Heldt says, he is one of the top German talents of his age group and he stood above KSC's poor defence in the last season. I see him and Traesch at roughly the same level, and it should indeed make for an interesting battle for the RB starting spot. The question now is what will happen with Osorio. Marco Pischorn, the pretty talented 22 year old central defender who has played in 4 BL games for us, will ahead in the other direction as part of the deal, rumoured to be around 3 million euros.


I wouldn't doubt that Pischorn will be back if he develops well. Becker and KSC do a very good job of developing talent. Not quite as good as you guys, but the gap between you two isn't quite an ocean.

Any chance Traesch will be moved to the center and Osorio sold back to Mexico?? Or Osorio moved to the center while the two "young bucks" battle it out for the RB slot??

I don't "know" anything here, just asking and curious.


But i'm very happy we've got him!

As well you should be. Hell, IMO Italy and Germany both should be looking at Celozzi as their future right back!


On another note, we've made another transfer today, one that makes slightly less sense in my eyes: Matthias Schwarz, a young midfielder all-rounder from FC Ingolstadt. He had a pretty poor average kicker rating of 3.83 in the II. Liga this year and i'm not sure what Heldt plans with him. I'd assume he'll be moving to VfB II.

Dude, I hope you aren't making a full judgment on Schwarz based on his "Kicker" rankings. I've seen this kid play and he's not just some "midfield all-rounder".

This kid played both outside defender positions for Ingolstadt as well as in midfield last season. Thorsten Fink had enough confidence in this kid to plug him in just about anywhere there was a hole.

This kid is one of the cases where his "Kicker" rankings just don't do him justice.

I watched this kid live three times and many times on film last season (I was evaluating him to suggest him to friends who know people) and I'm telling you he can play.

Why don't you focus on his last six "Kicker" ratings? They will include his last one under Fink and all of them under Koeppel, who settled the kid down big time despite continuing to play him at both outside defense positions and in midfield.

I can tell you that 4.5 he got for the match against FCN was harsh. So were some of his other "bad" ratings.

I'd also advise you not to judge him just because he comes from a team who was relegated to the Regionalliga.

If you drop a diamond ring in the trash, it'll be hard to find because it's surrounded by all that trash.

Now, I'm not saying you guys just signed a star. No way.

I agree this signing is for VfB II. However, given the chance to play one position or even maybe two, I'm fairly certain this kid will push for some playing time on the Bundesliga team in a year or two.

I think Heldt did well to get this kid. He has some developing to do, but you guys are the right club for him to do that developing at.

You will like this signing.

[footyfan1]

That is good news. Pischorn going to Karlsruhe is good news to me, because I think it signals that we are fairly certain of getting Niedermaier permanently.


You hope that's what it signals.

It might just signal they didn't think he would be of any value to VfB before his deal was up after next season.

It's not like you guys are hurting in central defense.........

[Rainer24]

You hope that's what it signals.

It might just signal they didn't think he would be of any value to VfB before his deal was up after next season.

It's not like you guys are hurting in central defense.........


I know Tasci extended his deal, but I still don't think we're going to keep him for more than another couple seasons. I guess you are also thinking of Boulahrouz, but I still don't like him. He can leave as far as I'm concerned. He's talented, but so inconsistent.

[footyfan1]

I know Tasci extended his deal, but I still don't think we're going to keep him for more than another couple seasons.

Did he? I didn't hear that actually got done yet. Right after the word came out that they'd agreed, VFB were the ones who said there was no agreement.

I haven't heard anything since then.

Maybe that is the deal that is getting done.......




I guess you are also thinking of Boulahrouz, but I still don't like him. He can leave as far as I'm concerned. He's talented, but so inconsistent.


And there is the difference in our opinions.

You're talking about what you're concerned about.

I'm trying to figure out what Horst Heldt is thinking, not what you're thinking.

After all, his is the decision that counts.

[Rainer24]

Did he? I didn't hear that actually got done yet. Right after the word came out that they'd agreed, VFB were the ones who said there was no agreement.

I haven't heard anything since then.

Maybe that is the deal that is getting done.......







And there is the difference in our opinions.

You're talking about what you're concerned about.

I'm trying to figure out what Horst Heldt is thinking, not what you're thinking.

After all, his is the decision that counts.


Of course it is Heldt's decision. All I can ever do is post my opinions in an internet forum. That's fine.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

On Schwarz:

Yeah I admit footy I don't know too much about him. I was just giving the limited information I have, but I'm pleased to hear your comments on him and hopefully you're right! You seem to be more 'in the know' about him than me.

On Pischorn:

I doubt it has much to do with Niedermeier, rather we just don't really need him. I think he has the calibre to make a first league defender in the future, but with Tasci, Delpierre, Boulahrouz and Niedermeier in the centre already he would've played probably no role at all this season.

On Celozzi/Traesch/Osorio:
Traesch won't move to the centre, that's not the area where we're focusing him. Osorio could potentially be a backup in central defence as well as at rightback, but really if a Mexican club like America came in right now and wanted to buy him, I think we could sell him and cash in a few million without any major damage to the squad depth. Celozzi I think could play at left and rightback, and in a BILD interview today he said he doesn't car what side he plays on. So, potentially he could threaten Magnin and Boka on the left and leave Traesch and Osorio to fight for the rightback spot, or he could fight for the rightback spot with traesch and osorio. Hopefully spurring on and challenging each other will allow both Celozzi and Traesch to develop even more quickly.

On Tasci:
He hasn't signed a new contract yet but apparently the talks are going well.

On Boulahrouz:
I definitely wouldn't want us to sell him. If we were to make the Champions League, we'll reall need depth. Say a minimum of 6 Champions League games, plus 3-4 DFB Pokal games (average) plus the 34 BL games, plus CL qualifier games mean a total of roughly 45-46 games in the season. We need all the players we can get, and havign someone of Boulahrouz's calibre to step up if Tasci or Delpierre get injured or are off-form, is a valid asset imo.

[footyfan1]

On Schwarz:

Yeah I admit footy I don't know too much about him. I was just giving the limited information I have, but I'm pleased to hear your comments on him and hopefully you're right! You seem to be more 'in the know' about him than me.


As I stated, I followed him in order to decide whether to suggest him to friends of mine who "know people".


As I said earlier, he's not going to come in and win a spot on the BL team, but in a year or two, you will love this signing.



On Pischorn:

I doubt it has much to do with Niedermeier, rather we just don't really need him. I think he has the calibre to make a first league defender in the future, but with Tasci, Delpierre, Boulahrouz and Niedermeier in the centre already he would've played probably no role at all this season.


And it is very easy for VfB to keep an eye on him at KSC. If he develops well, I'll bet he'll be back in a couple of seasons.



On Celozzi/Traesch/Osorio:
Traesch won't move to the centre, that's not the area where we're focusing him. Osorio could potentially be a backup in central defence as well as at rightback, but really if a Mexican club like America came in right now and wanted to buy him, I think we could sell him and cash in a few million without any major damage to the squad depth. Celozzi I think could play at left and rightback, and in a BILD interview today he said he doesn't car what side he plays on. So, potentially he could threaten Magnin and Boka on the left and leave Traesch and Osorio to fight for the rightback spot, or he could fight for the rightback spot with traesch and osorio. Hopefully spurring on and challenging each other will allow both Celozzi and Traesch to develop even more quickly.


Thanks for the opinion!!



On Tasci:
He hasn't signed a new contract yet but apparently the talks are going well.


I had not heard about how the talks are going, but I knew I had not heard that he's signed.



On Boulahrouz:
I definitely wouldn't want us to sell him. If we were to make the Champions League, we'll reall need depth. Say a minimum of 6 Champions League games, plus 3-4 DFB Pokal games (average) plus the 34 BL games, plus CL qualifier games mean a total of roughly 45-46 games in the season. We need all the players we can get, and havign someone of Boulahrouz's calibre to step up if Tasci or Delpierre get injured or are off-form, is a valid asset imo.


Totally agree with you here. Not the best defender, but you won't find too many better for CL/BL/DFB Pokal depth.

[Rainer24]

Well, I had obviously heard wrong about Tasci.

Boulahrouz hasn't really lived up to expectations. I guess that's my main point, not that he's terrible. I would just like to see a bit more consistency.

I don't know how the Pischorn thing can't be related to the possible Niedermaier deal. Playing in three competitions, you have to have at least four good centerbacks and I don't think you let one go at all unless you are fairly certain that you are set at the position. Like others have said, if Pischorn develops over there on the wrong side of the Schwarzwald, he can always come back.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

No new news today other than Ba remains the favourite for the striker slot and apparently we are close to agreeing terms with Ba himself... remains to be seen whether we can agree on anything with Hoffenheim. And Jovanovic continues to be 'close' to signing.

By the way, VfB (minus national players) have returned to training this weekend.

[Fußballgott]

Regarding Demba Ba I've seen a lot of talk about his transfer fee but no discussion on his quality as a player. I'm not in a position to pass judgement having seen him play in only 3 games but his resumee seems to consist only of a single Bundesliga session. In the Hinrunde he played a rather unimportant role in a offensivly strong Hoffenheim team. In the Rückrunde he was expected to replace Ibisevic as the main striker and failed utterly.

What makes you people think he will develope into more than a decent Bundesliga-striker?

[footyfan1]

Regarding Demba Ba I've seen a lot of talk about his transfer fee but no discussion on his quality as a player. I'm not in a position to pass judgement having seen him play in only 3 games but his resumee seems to consist only of a single Bundesliga session. In the Hinrunde he played a rather unimportant role in a offensivly strong Hoffenheim team. In the Rückrunde he was expected to replace Ibisevic as the main striker and failed utterly.

What makes you people think he will develope into more than a decent Bundesliga-striker?

If you didn't seen any discussion of Ba's quality as a player, I guess you didn't look back far enough. Vfbstuttgartfan and I had at least one exchange about it.

As far as Ba "failing utterly" to take Ibisevic's place, I think you're dead wrong.

Ba wasn't the one who was supposed to take up the slack for Ibisevic's injury, it was supposed to be Ba AND Obasi. And OBASI was the one who utterly failed. Ba did his part.

Now, I think where you and I agree is that VfB really doesn't need to spend 15-20M on a guy who has had one good BL season.

However, if you look at his stats from last season, except for one stretch right at the start of the second half of the season, Ba was very consistent.

Again, I just don't know that VfB should take that kind of a chance on what is still a very much unproven quantity.

Hell, even freakin' Delron Buckley once scored 15 goals in a Bundesliga season......

[berloha]

Demba failed in the Rueckrunde ? Who did not for Hoffenheim during that bad time ?

To be fair, he was Hoffenheims best striker in the last 17 games, his development was one of the best, that was more impressive than Obasi (and THAT is some quality player).

No doubts, I have not seen any more elegant striker for this height than Demba, I don't call him 'artist' for nothing.

I am not sure, if he can replace Gomez, there do is much individual quality (in Demba) but he was a big part for Hoffenheim, and he had wonderful players like Obasi, Eduardo, Salihovic around him, which Stuttgart has not.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Yeah agree with Berloha here

... excuse my bluntness but to claim that Ba 'failed utterly' in the Rueckrunde is the most exagerated statement that I have heard in a long time. From another planet almost.

[footyfan1]

To be fair, he was Hoffenheims best striker in the last 17 games, his development was one of the best, that was more impressive than Obasi (and THAT is some quality player).



Berloha, was I wrong to say "Obasi was the one who utterly failed?" in the second half of the season??

I thought Ba did his part and this is why Stuttgart wants him.

[footyfan1]

BTW, did you guys realize you U-17 beat Bayern's U-17s for the German Championship?? :D

[benztown]

BTW, did you guys realize you U-17 beat Bayern's U-17s for the German Championship?? :D

I completely forgot about that final with the Confed Cup and the U21 Europen Cup going on...:rolleyes:

Anyway, great news, I'm really proud of our youth system.

[footyfan1]

I completely forgot about that final with the Confed Cup and the U21 Europen Cup going on...:rolleyes:

Anyway, great news, I'm really proud of our youth system.


I'm seriously envious of your youth system.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

BTW, did you guys realize you U-17 beat Bayern's U-17s for the German Championship?? :D

I was gonna write about this today :) congratulations to the kids!

[Rainer24]

Congrats to the kiddos. 3-1 over Bayern is always something that will bring a smile to ones face. I think that's the 6th time our guys have one the U-17 championship now.


I would take Ba, but I don't want him at the prices that are being talked about. I think we all pretty much agree on that one.