VfB Stuttgart - Pushing for Europe, 08/09 Season Thread Part III (R)

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

I'm interested in seeing what VfB do with the Gomez money. Which transfers do you want to make before September?

This is a nice question though :D

My hope:
Helmes
Hleb
good young striker, the guy in Poland maybe
A strong wingback.


Don't know how realistic each of these are, but the rumours give hope.

[Kleyn]

9Hating ScheissBayern is not about being on a bandwagon, it's about a natural reaction to the shit you guys do every single ********ing season. Some club has to suffer from it every summer. And because we are a smart, good club with an amazing youth development programme, I guess we suffer from it more than others.

Ok ok but what does that have to do with Bayern? I mean no one robbed you. If it wouldn't be Bayern it would be a foreign club (which would probably paide less).

[benztown]

I'm interested in seeing what VfB do with the Gomez money. Which transfers do you want to make before September?

Well, I'd definitely like to see Hleb and Helmes come to Stuttgart. On top of that, I think we could do with a better left back. However, the market there is pretty empty, so if we can't find one who is a real improvement, better to not buy anyone at all. I don't want to see the same mistakes as the last two seasons where we bought a bunch of mediocre players who didn't really improve the team.

It could look something like this:

------------------------------Lehman
Osorio/Träsch------Tasci------------Delpierre-----Magnin/Player Y
----------------------Khedira-------Hitzlsperger
Hleb----------------------------------------------------------Gebhart
----------------------Cacau------------Helmes

This would also be a lot more flexible than this year, cause with Hleb in the team, Cacau could just drop on either flank and we'd have an instant 4-5-1 formation with an awesome playmaker.

But at this point this is merely wishful thinking of course.

[Fußballgott]

I'm interested in seeing what VfB do with the Gomez money. Which transfers do you want to make before September?

IMO the best thing would be to sell Delpierre, Tasci, Khedira, Bastürk and Boka to lower wages. We'd have a well balanced squad which could go deep in EL. We have upcoming talents who can fill the void in the squad and would profit from any playing time. Pischorn at CB; Enderle LB; Didavi and Funk at CM; Rudy SM; Schieber and Fischer as strikers. We would also have 60m at the bank which could prove useful later. Just throw money at players because we were ********ed by Bayern is the worst thing to do IMO.

Edit: Resulting squad

----------------------Lehmann (Ulreich, Stolz)

Träsch (Osorio)-Niedermeier(Osorio,Schuster)-Boulahrouz(Pischorn,Pisot)-Magnin(Enderle)

Hilbert(Elson)-Lanig(Funk)-Hitzlsperger(Didavi,Mandjeck)-Gebhard(Rudy,Simak)

---------------Marica(Fischer)-Cacau(Schieber,Schipplock)

[squidward123]

What should he take back??????

If you can describe Hoeness/Rummenigge/Beckenbaur's ('we will ensure VfB play uefa cup next season'...) rants as anything other than snobbery, then I don't know what.

And you bring up a bandwagon. There's one big bandwagon in German football - it's the FC BAYERN bandwagon. And it's the only one that never departs.

How can you dare come here and talk about being on a bandwagon when your side has just taken our best player away from us?????? Hating ScheissBayern is not about being on a bandwagon, it's about a natural reaction to the shit you guys do every single ********ing season. Some club has to suffer from it every summer. And because we are a smart, good club with an amazing youth development programme, I guess we suffer from it more than others.

Take Elber, take Magath, take Gomez, and we all know if we continue to do well and van Gaal flops you'll take Babbel soon enough as well. And Tasci. And Khedira. But don't you dare call it bandwagoning for us to despise you for it.

i can't disagree with any of this....

[BayernWake]

That's weird, you sound like every other non-Bayern fan who's ever voiced an opinion about FC Bayern.

Take that back, some KSC fans are cool and haven't hopped on the anti-Bayern bandwagon.

What should he take back??????

If you can describe Hoeness/Rummenigge/Beckenbaur's ('we will ensure VfB play uefa cup next season'...) rants as anything other than snobbery, then I don't know what.

And you bring up a bandwagon. There's one big bandwagon in German football - it's the FC BAYERN bandwagon. And it's the only one that never departs.

How can you dare come here and talk about being on a bandwagon when your side has just taken our best player away from us?????? Hating ScheissBayern is not about being on a bandwagon, it's about a natural reaction to the shit you guys do every single ********ing season. Some club has to suffer from it every summer. And because we are a smart, good club with an amazing youth development programme, I guess we suffer from it more than others.

Take Elber, take Magath, take Gomez, and we all know if we continue to do well and van Gaal flops you'll take Babbel soon enough as well. And Tasci. And Khedira. But don't you dare call it bandwagoning for us to despise you for it.

First of all, you misunderstand. My "take that back" meant "I take that back." I didn't want him to rescind his opinion. I meant "I take that back, not everyone has jumped on the anti-Bayern bandwagon.

I still believe, however, that there is an anti-Bayern bandwagon. Some truly hate Bayern for legitimate reasons, such as yourself, whereas others hate Bayern just because they think they should and because everyone else does. Granted, there is a Bayern glory-hunting bandwagon as well, people who like Bayern just because they're successful. So, I believe there are bandwagons on both fronts due to people not truly knowing FC Bayern.

Of course, you would be of the opinion that if one truly knows FC Bayern, one should think they're "Scheiss" and should hate them. I, of course, don't feel this way.

I do agree that Uli/KHR/der Kaiser are full of themselves, but I also believe FC Bayern is bigger than these three. Yes, we have a snobby front office, but I don't believe that makes us a snobby club.

Enough Bayern talk, however.

[BayernWake]

This is a nice question though :D

My hope:
Helmes
Hleb
good young striker, the guy in Poland maybe
A strong wingback.


Don't know how realistic each of these are, but the rumours give hope.

Helmes would be a good fit/replacement for Gomez.

A good friend of mine is a huge VfB fan and would love for Hleb to return. I don't think it's completely out of the question, as I think he'd welcome a "Heimkehr" back to Stuttgart (similar to Podolski's Heimkehr, except Hleb has the ambition to play for a bigger club...like Stuttgart).

Hleb und Stuttgart...sie passen einfach gut zusammen.

Though we Bayern fans have talked a lot about Hleb, I don't think he's interested in us.

Anyway, bring in a good striker and I think you'll definitely make it into the group stages in the CL.

[shealygg]

This is a nice question though :D


Dude....good recovery. I know you've had a REALLY bad day and were out of breath from the prior rant...but I literally laughed out loud when I saw this...and definitely respected you for turning off your anger for a bit to nicely answer the question... WELL DONE! :D Still laughing actually....

[Rainer24]

I think Helmes and Hleb is not an unrealistic goal and would be a great development for us. I don't even really want to talk about who is leaving to where, just who we are going to bring in.

Magnin finally seemed to be finding some form at the end, so maybe a season of that is on its way. Träsch is a man for the future and I can't wait to keep watching his development.

[footyfan1]

If Heldt can grab Hleb or Helmes, he will have done a good job.

You can probably lure Hleb back, but I don't think you guys will get Helmes.

Leverkusen knows they'd be nothing without him. Kiessling is a side-kick, not a #1 striker.

[footyfan1]

I think Helmes and Hleb is not an unrealistic goal and would be a great development for us. I don't even really want to talk about who is leaving to where, just who we are going to bring in.




I think Helmes is an unrealistic goal. No matter how much money you guys get from Bayern, it doesn't change the fact that Leverkusen doesn't need your money and one of the reasons Helmes signed with Leverkusen was to remain close to Köln.

Helmes is happy in Leverkusen and thinks they will win something in the near future.

They've got him locked up through the 2013 season and as far as I know, there's no buy-out clause.

I don't believe Helmes will force any sale to Stuttgart. Not unless you guys offer an obscene yearly salary.......

[Fußballgott]

I just wonder how some guys want to convince Hleb to return. "Alex, we know your playing for one of the 2 best clubs in the world but doesn't really work out, does it? And in England they play that super fast football and are not very friendly. You could also go to Bayern but we heard Hoeness wants to buy a topclass winger to complement Riberry and attack in the CL. So better not go there Sascha. And in Italy they want players who are very efficient and Alex you're not. Of german topclubs Werder has Marin and Özil, HSV has Holtby and Pitroipa. They don't need you. And what if VW invests some money? You'll be on the bench in no time. So better come to Stuttgart. You'll be the only star in the team and if we're lucky we might win the DFB-Pokal." Hleb has a house near Stuttgart but he isn't Podolski.

[Rainer24]

I think Helmes is an unrealistic goal. No matter how much money you guys get from Bayern, it doesn't change the fact that Leverkusen doesn't need your money and one of the reasons Helmes signed with Leverkusen was to remain close to Köln.

Helmes is happy in Leverkusen and thinks they will win something in the near future.

They've got him locked up through the 2013 season and as far as I know, there's no buy-out clause.

I don't believe Helmes will force any sale to Stuttgart. Not unless you guys offer an obscene yearly salary.......


I didn't say it was likely, just not completely unrealistic. We have a chance at Champions League for the coming season, which can be a draw. If they can sign someone like Hleb, that would also show some initiative on the part of the club and could do a lot to lure a quality target like Helmes.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Hleb has a house near Stuttgart but he isn't Podolski.

I think he's just as faithful to us if not more so than Podolski was to Koeln.

I think Alex will return. We'll see in the next weeks if I was right or not, but i'm banking on it.

[Duck Manson]

How good is Serdar Tasci? What kind of player is he?

[benztown]

How good is Serdar Tasci? What kind of player is he?

Well, Tasci is 22 years old and a modern central defender, meaning that he has a good feel for the ball and can also iniciate attacks.

He has already played 7 gmaes for the German NT, so his qualities have been recognized by Löw as well.

[Duck Manson]

Well, Tasci is 22 years old and a modern central defender, meaning that he has a good feel for the ball and can also iniciate attacks.

He has already played 7 gmaes for the German NT, so his qualities have been recognized by Löw as well.Juventus are supposedly interested. You think he would make it at a club like that? What kind of personality does he have? No disrespect to Stuttgart intended.

[benztown]

Juventus are supposedly interested. You think he would make it at a club like that? What kind of personality does he have? No disrespect to Stuttgart intended.

He's more the quiet type, but I certainly think he could make it there, with Legrottaglie being 32 years old and all...wouldn't be easy for him though, I don't think that he could immediatly take a starting spot, since AFAIK, the Juve defenders have been consistently good this season...


although I do hope that we can keep him and extend his contract. He's not only a very important player here but he has also been developed here, coming through our youth ranks...

[Duck Manson]

He's more the quiet type, but I certainly think he could make it there, with Legrottaglie being 32 years old and all...wouldn't be easy for him though, I don't think that he could immediatly take a starting spot, since AFAIK, the Juve defenders have been consistently good this season...


although I do hope that we can keep him and extend his contract. He's not only a very important player here but he has also been developed here, coming through our youth ranks...Actually our defense has been the problem the last half of the season, with injuries and a ton of individual blunders. Tasci sounds like a interesting player. Word is his contract is up next summer so, unfortunately for you, he might leave for less then market value.

[Fußballgott]

I didn't say it was likely, just not completely unrealistic. We have a chance at Champions League for the coming season, which can be a draw. If they can sign someone like Hleb, that would also show some initiative on the part of the club and could do a lot to lure a quality target like Helmes.

Don't think Hleb wants a chance at CL. He wants a chance to play a role in CL. If he goes from one of the best clubs to a club that's not even a Championship candidate in Germany he'd look like a total failure. This of course would be different if his coming wouldn't be just to safe face for the Stuttgart managnement but actually part of a consistent strategy to built a competitive squad. In that case he wouldn't come because he's not good enough for top-football but because he has a unique chance to achieve something with his favourite club, a chance not coming again during his career. Look the only players close to Hleb's level we have now are Lehmann, Delpierre, Tasci and Khedira. Delpierre is 28 so if he wants to achieve anything in Europe or with France he has to leave now. Lehmann is close to retiring. Tasci and Khedira might stay another session. Tasci is another player who said the squad should be improved so the chance of him extending his contract is next to nil. Hleb will return when he is 35.

I think as a club like Stuttgart you have to invest cyclic. Keep the money when you don't have a good squad anyway but invest heavily when a good squad is nearly complete. That's because thanks to our youths and good name (we can always raid Fürth and 60) we are quaranteed to be one of the better clubs in Germany. And when you have alot of young players from youth or 2.BL there will always some who develop into good players who will look for bigger challanges. And then you hit a wall. That's the situation we are in now. We have alot of excellent players and should be making the step from a good Bundesliga side to a side which doesn't look out of place in the CL. From a HSV, VfB, Schalke to a Porto, Juventus, Lyon. Werder tried to make this step for several years. And they came quiet close by several good buys like Micoud, Diego, Klose....

But VfB is a very different club than Werder. If we start to try to sell high and buy low we rob us of our strenght (youth) and emphasize our weakness (high-profile scouting). It would also destroy team-cohesion as players come and go. Instead we have to develop our own topclass players and then when they're ready built a team around them. I think if we kept Gomez and Delpierre and added 2 more players close to their quality this would have been a project Hleb would have been interested in. But you'll never make that step with Tomasson, Gronkjaer, Helmes, etc. if you don't have atleast 3-4 topplayers playing alongside them. Therefore I think the only reasonable option now would be to close this chapter and start rebuilding again.

To show what I'm talking about:


The squad I was hoping for: (names of new players are just examples)

--------------------Lehmann (Ulreich, Stolz)

Träsch(Osorio)-Tasci(Niedermeier)-Delpierre(Boulahrouz)-Schäfer(Magnin)

Hilbert(Elson)-Khedira(Lanig)-Hitzlsperger(Rudy)-Hleb(Gebhard)

--------------Gomez(Brozek)-van der Vaart(Cacau)

Youth players to be loaned out to a weak 1.BL or strong 2.BL side
before being integrated in the squad


The way we should go now IMO:

----------------------Lehmann (Ulreich, Stolz)

Träsch(Osorio)-Niedermeier(Osorio,Schuster)-Boulahrouz(Pischorn,Pisot)-Magnin(Enderle)

Hilbert(Elson)-Lanig(Funk)-Hitzlsperger(Didavi,Mandjeck)-Gebhard(Rudy,Simak)

---------------Brozek(Fischer)-Cacau(Schieber,Schipplock)

Would still be a quite strong squad in the Bundesliga IMO.
But I'm always optimistic regarding our youth players.


And the way we will go probably:

----------------------Lehmann (Ulreich, Stolz)

Träsch(Osorio)-Tasci(Niedermeier)-Boulahrouz(Geromel)-Magnin(Boka)

Hilbert(Gebhard,Elson)-Khedira(Lanig)-Hitzlsperger(Bastürk)-Trochowski(Rudy,Simak)

-------------------Voronin(Brozek)-Cacau(Schieber)

- lost a big chance regarding Gomez, Hleb and Delpierre

- good, but not good enough to have much of an impact

- not good enough to keep Khedira and Tasci

- too expensiv to build up a money reserve

- not much place in the squad for youth players

5 steps backwards.