US Open Cup Play-In Game

[K]

Just sent out by DCU

D.C. United set to host U.S. Open Cup play-in game

Black-and-Red will face FC Dallas on April 22 at RFK Stadium

Washington, D.C. (February 25, 2009) - D.C. United announced today the club will host FC Dallas in a U.S. Open Cup play-in game on April 22 at RFK Stadium, as it begins defense of its 2008 U.S. Open Cup title. The game will kickoff at 7:30 p.m. ET and serve as Special Game A for half and full season ticket holders. Tickets for the general public will go on sale at a later date.


The Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup is an annual national competition that is open to all amateur and professional soccer teams that are affiliated with U.S. Soccer. It is the oldest tournament in the U.S., beginning in 1914 when Brooklyn Field Club took home the very first title. MLS teams were first included in the tournament in the inaugural 1996 season, with D.C. taking home the title that season. Last year, United won its second Open Cup championship, defeating the Charleston Battery 2-1 in the final.

[Atouk]

Odd tournament. Instead of just letting us enter the tournament in an earlier round (where we'd play a lower-level team), we have to win two more games against MLS teams before entering in the Round of 16 (where last year's MLS Top 6 and the other "play-in" winner enter the tournament proper).

Is this because MLS teams don't want that many games against lower-level opponents?

Or because the USSF still wants to have 8 lower-level teams advance to the Round of 16 (something that might not happen if 8 MLS teams enter at an earlier round)?

[John L]

The latter - This is USSF's baby, not MLS's

This adds a Fri-WED-Sun game about one month into our season - Coulda been much worse, like a standard Sat-WED-Sat midweek game

We've stumbled early in previous seasons, but I think that has been due to the funky preseason tourney we've been in and games in Febr and early March have taken a lot more out of us than they've benefited us

[Atouk]

The latter - This is USSF's baby, not MLS's

Sure, but I think that black/white statement doesn't consider how those two units work together. MLS teams (United included) have sat out of this tournament before when there were conflicts and the USSF certainly wants/needs MLS participation (but doesn't put up a big paycheck to get it), so I assumed MLS clubs are able to express a preference about how/when they enter. I have no idea if this weird "MLS-only play-in setup" is such a case, however.

[monster]

Odd tournament. Instead of just letting us enter the tournament in an earlier round (where we'd play a lower-level team), we have to win two more games against MLS teams before entering in the Round of 16 (where last year's MLS Top 6 and the other "play-in" winner enter the tournament proper).

Is this because MLS teams don't want that many games against lower-level opponents?

Or because the USSF still wants to have 8 lower-level teams advance to the Round of 16 (something that might not happen if 8 MLS teams enter at an earlier round)?
I think it is a combination of the second part and the fact that lower-level teams want to minimize the number of times they might have to travel.

[QPR Kevin H]

Odd tournament. Instead of just letting us enter the tournament in an earlier round (where we'd play a lower-level team), we have to win two more games against MLS teams before entering in the Round of 16 (where last year's MLS Top 6 and the other "play-in" winner enter the tournament proper).

Is this because MLS teams don't want that many games against lower-level opponents?

Or because the USSF still wants to have 8 lower-level teams advance to the Round of 16 (something that might not happen if 8 MLS teams enter at an earlier round)?
Seriously - what did the USSF pattern this after - the useless UEFA Cup? :confused:

[fatbastard]

I doubt the USSF had much to say about it - they give MLS 8 spots to fill, I'd think it was up to MLS to determine exactly how to fill them - they chose top 6 based on points the previous regular season, then a bracket-style play-in to determine the other 2 spots.
You used to be able to choose not to participate at all, but I don't think that is an option any more.


Kevin, I assume you mean MLS's play-in, not the USSF's entire Open Cup, as that has been around about 60 years longer than UEFA Cup.

[Lowecifer]

I doubt the USSF had much to say about it - they give MLS 8 spots to fill, I'd think it was up to MLS to determine exactly how to fill them

The problem with "giving MLS 8 spots" is that it ceases to be an Open Cup. Open means anyone can enter.

[Atouk]

The problem with "giving MLS 8 spots" is that it ceases to be an Open Cup. Open means anyone can enter.It's not just MLS that has limits. I guess each league gets a certain number of slots in the tournament proper and then figures out how to narrow them down. According to usopencup.com, 122 PDL regular season games will count towards PDL team qualification for the '09 USOC.

A total of 32 non-MLS teams get into the tournament proper, knock each other down to 8 after a couple of rounds, then take on 8 from MLS.

It can't be profitable for MLS to play weekday games for these play-in games, but there are good reasons for not having regular season games also count as qualifying games, so I guess this is what we get instead.

The other option is just to have the Top 8 go and leave the rest of us out of it.

I'm happy to go, but I can see some season ticket holder thinking this isn't a very "special" game for a "Special Game" ticket when all we'd win is the right to play in another play-in game. ;)

[fatbastard]

Anyone CAN enter - they just have to whittle each division's entries down to so many "spots" before the "Final" tournament starts.

[Lowecifer]

Anyone CAN enter - they just have to whittle each division's entries down to so many "spots" before the "Final" tournament starts.

That's not how an open tournament is supposed to operate. MLS isn't calling these games Open Cup games, they are calling them "play-in" games. Maybe it's just semantic bullshit. Just rig the draw so MLS team have to play eachother. Sheesh!

:D

[QPR Kevin H]

With MLS increasing to 16 next season. They should really just sprinkle the top 8 into the last 16, seeded. Bottom 8 enter at the round of 32, I realize there needs to be whacky qualification for lower budget/lower league teams - but I'm not sure why MLS entrants have to operate that way.

Of course I also think MLS should just switch to a 30 match, home-away, single table format next season. But I don't want to spark some sort of intertube soccer holy war! :)

[fatbastard]

With MLS increasing to 16 next season. They should really just sprinkle the top 8 into the last 16, seeded. Bottom 8 enter at the round of 32, I realize there needs to be whacky qualification for lower budget/lower league teams - but I'm not sure why MLS entrants have to operate that way. because in this competition, the MLS is no different than USL-1 or USL-2 or Amateur soccer leagues. They get 8 spots, more than most of the other leagues, already - why should they deserve for all their teams to be in? It's kinda the point of the competition.

Serious question since I don't care enough about English soccer to know, do all the Prem teams automatically get into the FA Cup? I think that's the tournament this gets compared to the most (even though I think ours might be older).




Oh, and my volley in the holy war: Single tables are stupid, archaic things :)

[monster]

The problem with "giving MLS 8 spots" is that it ceases to be an Open Cup. Open means anyone can enter.
Anyone can enter. They just have to win some games, just like the USASA teams that enter their state cup.

[BigKris]

Anyone can enter. They just have to win some games, just like the USASA teams that enter their state cup.

Exactly. How many of the amateur teams that are entering wouldn't trade spots with us? Beat the Burn's reserves and move directly to the round of 16? That's a good deal.

[Atouk]

Exactly. How many of the amateur teams that are entering wouldn't trade spots with us? Beat the Burn's reserves and move directly to the round of 16? That's a good deal.No, if we beat the Burn's reserves, we then have another "play-in" game against the winner of SJ/RBNY. Win that and get into the Round of 16.

[BigKris]

No, if we beat the Burn's reserves, we then have another "play-in" game against the winner of SJ/RBNY. Win that and get into the Round of 16.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The point remains.

[Atouk]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. The point remains.But why compare us to amateur teams? We're not getting a "good deal" by starting later -- given the purse, we'd probably skip the tournament if they made us play a dozen games to win it. In what nation do top-division professional teams enter their national cup competition in the same place as teams four or five levels below them in the pyramid? It's not a "good deal" that we enter later, it's common sense.

The bottom 8 MLS teams are, in essence, being put into the tournament two rounds before the top 6, but we're forced to get through two rounds of playing MLS teams before we even have a shot at advancing through playing a lower-league team.

It's not the end of the world and I'll be happy to attend, but a "play-in game that, with a win, leads to another play-in game that, with a win, still puts you four wins away from lifting a cup" is a bit weird. When you're six wins away from winning the cup, you expect to be playing the Dubuque Badgers or something, not FC Dallas.