Quarterfinals! [R]

[DonJuego]

In regards to the MLS again I dont understand where they think they can throw in the reserves if they still have not proven squat. just my opinion I guess

I'm not sure MLS thinks they can -- they just don't care about CCL as much as MLS league games. I think they should care -- but I don't have a vote.

I suspect their attitude reflects a business decision related to SUM. SUM is an MLS owned subsidiary that markets international soccer in the US. SUM handles El Tri games in the US, and handles Superliga.

CONCACAF has not employed SUM to handle CCL. Thus, I think MLS owners send signals to their coach/employees that they don't really care about CCL.

None of this is meant as an excuse or justification -- just my guess as to why MLS is relatively ambivilant. I for one am far from ambivalent. I consider CCL the greatest test of my team and I wish for nothing more than CONCACAF glory -- and I'm not happy with either our commitment nor our results.

[sidspaceman]

The CONCACAF Champions League winner will qualify as the CONCACAF representative to the 2009 edition of the FIFA Club World Cup. SUM manages the commercial aspects the Champions League. (http://web.sumworld.com/about/index.jsp?content=a2a)

I guess you guys need to come up with a new excuse.

[DonJuego]

The CONCACAF Champions League winner will qualify as the CONCACAF representative to the 2009 edition of the FIFA Club World Cup. SUM manages the commercial aspects the Champions League. (http://web.sumworld.com/about/index.jsp?content=a2a)

I guess you guys need to come up with a new excuse.

As clearly stated before -- no excuses have been made.

Good info. But not good enough.

I was unaware that SUM was doing anything for CCL. However, if you browse the SUM website you will find that CCL, while a SUM property, is not treated as one. Look at the press releases in 2008. None on CCL. And the CONCACAF site makes it clear that CONCACAF gets all TV revenue -- which is what SUM gets from its major properties. That SUM does some work for CONCACAF does not mean it is important to them.

Amazing how you cannot be cordial. I made a point to disown any of this as an excuse -- and to disown that any excuse could exist.

[AdamSoucie]

Even if SUM is handling the marketing, they're not doing all that great of a job covering it. It seems like Interliga and the Pan-Pacific Championships had more coverage on MLS' main site.

I just think about how much promotion the Impact were doing about their game. Obviously they had reasons to crow on and on about their attendance, but doing so made a big deal out of the game. There seems to be an air of ambivalence amongst MLS teams, or at least in MLS-produced media, about the tournament and that needs to change immediately.

As I’ve said before, the changes MLS has made to the participation rules is the first step. How that goes could determine how MLS handles this tournament in the future.

[sidspaceman]

As clearly stated before -- no excuses have been made.

Good info. But not good enough.

I was unaware that SUM was doing anything for CCL. However, if you browse the SUM website you will find that CCL, while a SUM property, is not treated as one. Look at the press releases in 2008. None on CCL. And the CONCACAF site makes it clear that CONCACAF gets all TV revenue -- which is what SUM gets from its major properties. That SUM does some work for CONCACAF does not mean it is important to them.

Amazing how you cannot be cordial. I made a point to disown any of this as an excuse -- and to disown that any excuse could exist.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck.

[AdamSoucie]

After some more investigating, I also found this:

North America's top club tournament, SuperLiga™ is an annual eight-team competition among clubs from Major League Soccer and the Mexican First Division. (http://web.sumworld.com/about/index.jsp?content=a4)

While I support the idea behind Superliga, it is the CONCACAF equivalent to the UEFA Cup/Europa League at best. The CCL should be the top club tournament, SUM!

*** Before anyone jumps on this, I know that CONCACAF is more than just North America ***

[Nerroth]

Going by a certain interpretation, that phrase could be valid, if you consider the CAC part of CONCACAF to be distinct - since SuperLiga is (apparently, though I may be mistaken) considered to be a regional championship, akin to Copa Interclubes UNCAF and the CFU Club Championship.


And as it happens, the Interclubes no longer has a link to the CONCACAF-wide tourney - only the CFU tourney can act as a qualifier for the CCL now.

[DonJuego]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck.

It is clear it does none of those things. Your trying to create something that is not there. Let it go. Lets for once have a civil discussion without insults.

[Naui_Ocelotl]

After some more investigating, I also found this:

North America's top club tournament, SuperLiga™ is an annual eight-team competition among clubs from Major League Soccer and the Mexican First Division. (http://web.sumworld.com/about/index.jsp?content=a4)

While I support the idea behind Superliga, it is the CONCACAF equivalent to the UEFA Cup/Europa League at best. The CCL should be the top club tournament, SUM!

*** Before anyone jumps on this, I know that CONCACAF is more than just North America ***

The CCL is the top international club tournament, or least-bad depending on how you choose to look at it, Superliga is a joke of a tournament. Hopefully it goes away soon.

[AdamSoucie]

That quote comes from SUM, and is a direct response to the posts about SUM. If you read my posts, you'll notice that I do think that the CCL is the top club tournament in CONCACAF.

Based on your posts in other CONCACAF threads, I've noticed you don't really see this tournament as important anyway. You'd rather see Mexican clubs playing in CONMEBOL tournaments. It is an attitude I've seen far too often from fans of the Mexican clubs, and it quite frankly makes me sick.

If fans of FMF teams think they are so grand, why doesn't the FMF just pull an Australia and leave CONCACAF entirely to join CONMEBOL?

[Dr. Wagner]

That quote comes from SUM, and is a direct response to the posts about SUM. If you read my posts, you'll notice that I do think that the CCL is the top club tournament in CONCACAF.

Based on your posts in other CONCACAF threads, I've noticed you don't really see this tournament as important anyway. You'd rather see Mexican clubs playing in CONMEBOL tournaments. It is an attitude I've seen far too often from fans of the Mexican clubs, and it quite frankly makes me sick.

If fans of FMF teams think they are so grand, why doesn't the FMF just pull an Australia and leave CONCACAF entirely to join CONMEBOL?

Warner won't let us :( Nah, I'm just being an ass. Continue on with the discussion. It was a very entertaining read before these last few pages.

[Bujias]

It is an attitude I've seen far too often from fans of the Mexican clubs, and it quite frankly makes me sick.

If fans of FMF teams think they are so grand, why doesn't the FMF just pull an Australia and leave CONCACAF entirely to join CONMEBOL?



The fans want to leave CONCACAF and join the CONMEBOL, the federation don't.

60 - 70 % of the hardcore club fans in Mexico prefer they're clubs rather than they're NT (including myself, im sick and tired of the freaking tri dismantling my Chivas).

Besides the FMF is run by 2 TV Networks (Televisa and TV Azteca), they never get tired of selling the NT as a world class Team to the idiots who are willing to believe anything, so they can sell a lot more being in the CONCACAF, they won't risk joining the CONMEBOL as it would be less probable that the NT goes to the WC.

Our Federation is so FKD up that:
-Televisa currently has 3 teams in the First Division which its of course illegal in any other part of the world, i still don't know why FIFA turns the blind eye (they even have a local draft).
-Players at the end of they'r contract cant move freely between Mexican teams.
-If a team X doesn't sing a contract for the Television rights with either Azteca or Televisa, the FMF will make up an escuse to throw the owner of X team in jail.
-Queretaro they fkd them up so that Santos could stay in the First Division, and when Santos did the something similar for what the Queretaro was fkd up, they of course ignore it, even went as far as to try to shout the only owner complaining with blackmail.

Well thats the world we leave in anyway, even if the FMF wanted to join the CONMEBOL, the CONCACAF wouldn't allow it.

Sorry my english couldn't get the Spell check to work.

[Naui_Ocelotl]

Based on your posts in other CONCACAF threads, I've noticed you don't really see this tournament as important anyway. You'd rather see Mexican clubs playing in CONMEBOL tournaments. It is an attitude I've seen far too often from fans of the Mexican clubs, and it quite frankly makes me sick.

If fans of FMF teams think they are so grand, why doesn't the FMF just pull an Australia and leave CONCACAF entirely to join CONMEBOL?

Yes I'd rather see my club play Libertadores rather than CCL, I don't see anything wrong with that. It's a simple matter of Libertadores and Sudamericana being more prestigious than the CCL. LD Alajuelense and DC United fans have gotten a taste of CONMEBOL competition and I'm sure they would prefer a return to it as well.

[AdamSoucie]

You're missing the point that part of the reason the CCL is less prestigious is because Mexican clubs are not interested. Raise the level of your own region before considering another.

[Naui_Ocelotl]

You're missing the point that part of the reason the CCL is less prestigious is because Mexican clubs are not interested. Raise the level of your own region before considering another.

Mexican clubs ARE interested in CCL (ticket to FIFA CWC) maybe they don't play starters in the group phase but they do enough to advance and last time I checked they have won the vast majority of these tournaments so obviously they are interested enough.

[DonJuego]

I'm sympathetic to Mexican fans higher interest in CONMEBOL than CONCACAF. I can't blame them. I find Mexican fans to be fairly sophisticated fans that like high quality footy.

Lets see .. on one hand we have Argentina, Brazil, etc... On the other hand we have US, Canada, T&T? On one hand we have River, Indepiendiente, Boca, etc.... On the other hand we have TFC, FCD, DCU, etc..? This is not a difficult choice to make. Especially when there are strong language and cultural ties.

When the US raises the caliber of our game and starts winning club games on Mexican soil (I sure hope it starts tonight!) and winning group stages and advancing over Mexican teams in home & home cup ties then I think it will start raising Mexican fans interest. It will not be overnight, and it is not a given. We in the US have to produce on the field first, and to this moment we have not.

If I was in Mexico, I would prefer to watch my teams in CONMEBOL competition until CONCACAF becomes competitive.

[DGREAT]

Tonight should be good, sucks ima be studying I'll probably watch it online

[AdamSoucie]

I'm not saying the logic isn't sound. It is normal to want your teams to play better competition; it's why I find the CCL so great for MLS.

My overall issue with this whole discussion has been the attitude of Mexican fans in regards to the quality of MLS. Is FMF a better league, CERTAINLY. Is MLS complete and utter garbage, NOT AT ALL.

Whether you like it or not, Hispanics in America, particularly Mexicans (b/c of Chivas USA and Blanco) are a key target demographic of MLS. Keeping those fans interested is vital to the success of the league. If the attitude I see on these forums continues, that interest will deteriorate too much.

Having a positive, friendly rivalry between MLS and FMF is great for CONCACAF. Quality improves on both ends, helping out the leagues. This in turn raises the level of competition around CONCACAF (assuming they want to keep up). That's good for everyone, I think.

[AdamSoucie]

I will say about tonight that Houston is definitely in trouble. The game was always going to be a challenge, but now that Bobby Boswell is out, the Houston defense is in for a long night.

[sidspaceman]

Atlante up 1-0