Orange Card and 5th Official?

[greekchampion04]

From my blog: http://olympiacos.theoffside.com/
mods, if my shameless plug to my blog is not allowed feel free to remove it.


http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/med/e16ab755d65a94e1593effecc471c4a8.jpg

Not really Olympiacos news per say, but this is too good to pass up.

In Italy they are going to experiment with the use of an ORANGE card. Article from Italy (in english) here (http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2009-02-23_123322190.html)

”It would be good for those situations where a red card is too much and a yellow not enough,” said an ironically ORANGE looking Collina. If you get an ORANGE card you have to sit out of the game for a few minutes (maybe they will have a hockey-style penalty box?)

FIFA is allowing it and next year will consider using it world wide.

Also something in the article about having a fifth official or “second set of eyes” maybe this would be an NFL-style replay official for big, match-changing penalty, handball, and offside decisions?

the orange card is self-explanatory but the 5th official is more out-of-the-box.

here is how i imagine the 5th official working working:

lets say there is a close call on an offside decision. instead of the ref making a split-second call and killing the play, let the play run to its conclusion. once the play is over (a goal is scored, the ball is out, held by the keeper, or controlled by the defense*) the ref will blow his whistle and stop play momentarily. immediately after the close decision (before play is stopped), the 5th official will be looking at replays and make his decision which he will pass on to the on-field referee. the 5th officials decision will be final as he has seen multiple replays.

regardless of what happens after the ref allows play to continue (a signal like the one for advantage will be given) if the play did turn out to be offside, the ball will be placed at the spot of the infraction and play will resume from a free-kick as usual. if a goal is scored in this time, it will not count. if the play was not offside, play will continue with no further interruption. if a goal is scored during this time it will count.

for close calls on penalties/handballs in the box the same would apply and the ref would let play run to its next natural stoppage as described above. if it turns out to indeed be a penalty, all play in the meantime will be erased and a penalty will be given. if the team that would receive the penalty scores as a result of play being allowed to continue, no action would be taken, play will resume from a kick from the center circle as usual. if the offending team scores on a counter-attack and a penalty is given the team being penalized will not keep the goal as that play "never happened"

* in all situations except this, play is already stopped and all the ref has to do is wait a few seconds to get the call in from the 5th official before allowing play to continue, if the defense holds the ball a "fair play" style rule will be in effect. if they defense wants to just continue the game they play on, if they want a review they put the ball out of bounds.
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maybe it will be like this, maybe it wont... but this is what i think/would like it to be like.

mods, if my shameless plug to my blog is not allowed feel free to remove it.

[riverplate]

Top Soccer League to Use Extra Referee Behind Goal (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/02/28/sports/AP-SOC-Extra-Referee.html) - N.Y. Times

NEWCASTLE, Northern Ireland (AP) -- International soccer officials agreed on Saturday to have one of the world's top leagues experiment with having an extra assistant referee behind each goal beginning next season. Italy and France have already volunteered to host the trial approved by the International Football Association board.

Even as the IFAB moved ahead with the plan to rule on disputed goals, it also agreed to revive investigations into whether technology would be a better solution -- a year after halting all experiments.

The IFAB rejected proposals to allow a fourth substitute in extra time and to look at implementing a penalty box sin bins for yellow card offenders.

FIFA's proposal to extend the half time to 20 minutes was also dropped from the agenda.

[argentine soccer fan]

Leaving aside the issue of whether another card is needed, if we're going to add another card, why make it an orange card?

The color would be easily confused with the red, by the fans watching live or on TV. The whole purpose of having the colored cards is to make clear to everybody what the ref is signaling.

If we're going to have another card, let's make it distinctly different from the yellow and the red. How about a blue card?

[Big Soccer Member]

Top Soccer League to Use Extra Referee Behind Goal (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/02/28/sports/AP-SOC-Extra-Referee.html) - N.Y. Times
Having another ref behind the goal is pointless.

-The keeper/other players/net will get in the way of being able to make a decent penalty decision. Even on the wrong decisions, refs tend to have a good view of the decision.

- If he is there to call a ball over the line, why not just use a laser or a chipped ball?

- Or, why would we need an extra ref for over the line calls when these happen once every 25 matches.

[Bronaldo]

Leaving aside the issue of whether another card is needed, if we're going to add another card, why make it an orange card?

The color would be easily confused with the red, by the fans watching live or on TV. The whole purpose of having the colored cards is to make clear to everybody what the ref is signaling.

If we're going to have another card, let's make it distinctly different from the yellow and the red. How about a blue card?

Well, it is orange as orange is a medium between red and yellow (when looking at wave lengths as well), but i agree with you.

So, are two yellows still a sending off? two oranges? an orange and a yellow?

[usaf_footballer]

One of the great things about this great game is how freely it flows. I always hate seeing players waste time and officials having to discuss a call. I think it's not a bad idea to have another set of eyes, but the last thing that should happen is an NFL-style replay as was suggested earlier. That would ruin the flow of the game!

As for the orange card, I understand the reasoning, but I agree that it might unnecessarily complicate things. I play in an indoor league that uses a blue card and hate it. Supposedly, it's less harsh than a yellow, but I think it does unnecessarily complicate things. If you think I challenged someone too hard and want to warn me, show me the yellow. If you don't want to show me the yellow, call the foul and warn me verbally.

The point is, keep things simple, flowing, and uncomplicated. Maintain the beauty of this game and let us keep playing without unnecessary rules and stoppages!

[Big Soccer Member]

One of the great things about this great game is how freely it flows. I always hate seeing players waste time and officials having to discuss a call. I think it's not a bad idea to have another set of eyes, but the last thing that should happen is an NFL-style replay as was suggested earlier. That would ruin the flow of the game!

As for the orange card, I understand the reasoning, but I agree that it might unnecessarily complicate things. I play in an indoor league that uses a blue card and hate it. Supposedly, it's less harsh than a yellow, but I think it does unnecessarily complicate things. If you think I challenged someone too hard and want to warn me, show me the yellow. If you don't want to show me the yellow, call the foul and warn me verbally.

The point is, keep things simple, flowing, and uncomplicated. Maintain the beauty of this game and let us keep playing without unnecessary rules and stoppages!
Good post. Replays are not the answer. Automatic technology (don't really know what that may be), post match decisions and most importantly, IMPROVING THE REFEREES.

[johno]

Well, it is orange as orange is a medium between red and yellow (when looking at wave lengths as well), but i agree with you.

So, are two yellows still a sending off? two oranges? an orange and a yellow?

I would assume 2 yellows = red

any combination of an orange and a yellow in whatever order should be a red as well.

The orange is > than yellow but < red which is = to 2 yellow, so orange + yellow is > than red


lol...

r=2y or 1y+1o=r or 2o = r


algebra will make a ref's job so much more difficult considering some refs can't remember to send someone off after 2 yellows in important international tournaments.

[harkes6]

i think the 3rd card is entirely unescessary. i understand it's akin to a sin-bin or hockey penalty...but that's what yellow cards are for in a way. most players already on a yellow are going to think twice about committing something rash. i don't see or want the need for another card...refs should make a few decisions as possible in a perfect game.

as for the extra ref, technology is the way to go. replays would kill the game, unnecessary stoppages of play kill the game...other sports have incorporated lights and buzzers and etc into the flow of their game (basketball and hockey come to mind) without any repurcussions. it's about time fifa faced the inevitability rather than further diluting the class of referees.

[nicephoras]

If we're going to have another card, let's make it distinctly different from the yellow and the red. How about a blue card?

Actually, I'm all for a 3rd card - a green card. Hand one out at U-21 tournaments to the best players on the condition they play for the senior US team. :p

[DeadAirSpace]

so the orange card is kinda like the sin bin in rugby? sit out for 10 mins maybe? i would support that for a trial, worth a go.

[OrlandoEngelaar]

Whats up with these stupid ideas being put out everyday?

[Antonio81]

I´m confused as to how having a player sit out for a few minutes is worse than possibly missing the next match. It might actually work in his favor in those long, drawn-out 120 minute knockout stage matches, or in over 100º F weather. And does the orange card come after a yellow, and before a red? That would allow a defender to get away with two yellow card offenses per game, and potentially lead to a frequency in more serious fouls.

As far as a 5th official and especially technology, I´m all for it, though FIFA seems frightened by it.

[Bronaldo]

Also, what difference does 10 minutes make in the higher levels?

In a lot of games, a team will go to 10 men and still be decent for quite some time. It takes a while to expose the extra space, numerical advantage and resulting physical advantage (cardio). It would change the entire dynamic of the game. Teams would have to specifically spend hours and hours thinking of ways to exploit the advantage in 10 minutes. seems silly

[johno]

Also, what difference does 10 minutes make in the higher levels?

In a lot of games, a team will go to 10 men and still be decent for quite some time. It takes a while to expose the extra space, numerical advantage and resulting physical advantage (cardio). It would change the entire dynamic of the game. Teams would have to specifically spend hours and hours thinking of ways to exploit the advantage in 10 minutes. seems silly


I think you and the poster above you are misinterpreting the intent of the proposed change. An orange can be awarded without a yellow before it. So if you get an orange and sit out ten minutes for what in the past was a yellow card offense, the difference is that now you have to miss time on the field. That is significant. Also, if you picked up a yellow before your orange, or pick up one after, you're gone.

[Bronaldo]

I think you and the poster above you are misinterpreting the intent of the proposed change. An orange can be awarded without a yellow before it. So if you get an orange and sit out ten minutes for what in the past was a yellow card offense, the difference is that now you have to miss time on the field. That is significant. Also, if you picked up a yellow before your orange, or pick up one after, you're gone.

Sitting off for 10 minutes is not significant at all.

Players sometimes go off injured for upwards of five minutes and i'm fairly certain that the other team does not have a huge advantage for the time period. I have the opinion that a red card is a punishment because the team misses the player for 1-3 games and because, after time, the team with one less player will be more tired. How often does a team quickly take advantage of an extra man early in a game?

I can see the advantage of this late in a game where players are already tired, but for the majority of the game it is not a huge punishment. The only thing this does is reduce the number of hard challenges late in games.

[johno]

Sitting off for 10 minutes is not significant at all.

Players sometimes go off injured for upwards of five minutes and i'm fairly certain that the other team does not have a huge advantage for the time period. I have the opinion that a red card is a punishment because the team misses the player for 1-3 games and because, after time, the team with one less player will be more tired. How often does a team quickly take advantage of an extra man early in a game?

I can see the advantage of this late in a game where players are already tired, but for the majority of the game it is not a huge punishment. The only thing this does is reduce the number of hard challenges late in games.


I disagree. You are not considering the game situations.

Say a team is up a goal and in dominant form, but they lose a player for 10 minutes. What do they do if its a CB? They've got to drop a midfielder back and perhaps drop a forward to the wing. The other team can now take the initiative and momentum can switch.

Say you are down a couple goals. Do you really want to risk an orange and risk your ability to attack your opponent whilst being a man down?

Also, you still fail to see that the 10 minutes or whatever time period is just an addition to the yellow. It is like a more severe yellow, it is certainly more of a deterrent than just a yellow.

[Bronaldo]

I disagree. You are not considering the game situations.

Say a team is up a goal and in dominant form, but they lose a player for 10 minutes. What do they do if its a CB? They've got to drop a midfielder back and perhaps drop a forward to the wing. The other team can now take the initiative and momentum can switch.

Say you are down a couple goals. Do you really want to risk an orange and risk your ability to attack your opponent whilst being a man down?

Also, you still fail to see that the 10 minutes or whatever time period is just an addition to the yellow. It is like a more severe yellow, it is certainly more of a deterrent than just a yellow.

The momentum change is a valid point, fair enough.

I've realized that the time period is just in addition to the same punishment offered by a yellow card.

[DeadAirSpace]

''Sitting off for 10 minutes is not significant at all. ''



You should watch some rugby union where players go the sin bin for 10 minutes, and it regularly changes games completely. You think that it wouldn't affect Man Utd if Vidic had to leave the field for 10 mins? Not only are they a man down, but it encourages the opposition to attack for 10 mins until he returns.

[Jimbob]

Having another ref behind the goal is pointless.

-The keeper/other players/net will get in the way of being able to make a decent penalty decision. Even on the wrong decisions, refs tend to have a good view of the decision.

- If he is there to call a ball over the line, why not just use a laser or a chipped ball?

- Or, why would we need an extra ref for over the line calls when these happen once every 25 matches.

I think you're reading too much into "behind the goal". I'm pretty sure the referee will be behind the end line next to one of the goals. I've long been a supporter of adding an extra set of eyes for each penalty area. Not an extra set of whistles. mind you, the referee should remain the final arbiter of the game, but an extra set eyes will go a long way in deterring penalty area shenanigans, as well as aiding the referee and the linesman in close goal decisions.

-Jimbob