Hillsborough: Twenty Year Remembrance

[Borussia]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6195/cid000601c9abee5c064250.jpg


R.I.P.

[LiverMorgh]

Coincidentally, I was listening to Clair de Lune:

YouTube - Clair De Lune

And reading the letters on the Liverpool site...started ballin out.

[Grinners89]

Following on from recent events on this Liverpool forum, to do with a certain newspaper and a certain post that related to the Hillsborough disaster, I urge every Liverpool supporter and any other's who come to this thread to download the LFC.tv Hillsborough Documentary from the following link if you havent seen it.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XUSNZ7S1

For anyone who is a new Liverpool supporter or who either hasnt heard what happened or is unsure as to what happened, this documentary will inform you of as much of what happened as possible.

Survivors, parents and family members, as well as other people who were at the ground on 15 April 1989 all give a true account of what happened and how they saw it unfold.

Kevin Williams, who died at Hillsborough, was just 15 years old and the last part of the documentary focuses a fair bit on his story and his mother's quest for justice for her son, for the other 95 that died, the more than 400 that were officially injured and for the tens-of-thousands that were affected.

Hillsborough 96...20th Anniversary...80 days.

YNWA

I just thought I would re-post this link to a documentary that I posted a in January. I watched it again, and it really is a sad account from some of the survivors.

[Fung]

I hope the families of the 96 killed in the Hillsborough tragedy, aswell as those injured get the justice and recognition they deserve.

If only everyone tomorrow could boycott the sun, as a remembrance of the tragedy and the shameless profiteering the sun clearly pursued.

R.I.P.

[kopiteinkc]

BBC has live coverage of the service online:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7753036.stm

[Andy Bennett]

They've got Gerry of 'The Pacemakers' fame on atm. Very moving for an old codger of my age tbh.

[Andy Bennett]

BBC has live coverage of the service online:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7753036.stm
It's also been extensively covered on Sky News, (with adverts in), owner of Fox and, more importantly, The Sun newspaper. That scum has no shame! :mad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster#The_Sun_newspaper_controversy

[Kerry Dixon's Boots]

RIP 96. Saw this tragedy unfold live on tv when I was 10 and it still makes no sense. :(

The footballing world's hearts and minds are in Anfield and Hillsborough today.

[UncleMike]

At 10:00 this morning -- 3:00 British time, 20 years to the minutes that the tragedy unfolded -- I was walking up Ernston Road in Sayreville, New Jersey, toward my office. A hearse passed by. A sign?

At that moment I realized where the hearse might be going. There's a cemetery on Ernston Road, and that cemetery has a monument to another tragedy.

During World War I, America built its first modern defense plants. One was the T.A. Gillespie Company Shell Loading Plant, in the Morgan section of Sayreville, on Raritan Bay near the Atlantic Ocean. On the night of October 4, 1918, it exploded, and since the company's employment records were among the things that were destroyed, and some people were simply vaporized, we don't know how many people died. We think it was over 100, which would surpass even the Hillsborough disaster. Over 300 buildings in Sayreville and neighboring South Amboy and Madison Township (since renamed Old Bridge) were destroyed. Over 60,000 people were evacuated due to the threat, which was realized, of further explosions.

As recently as 2007, unexploded munitions, flung in the original 1918 blast, were found at a school on Ernston Road, a mile away from the epicenter. Since another school was another mile down the road, they checked that school as well, and, sure enough, there was more. This is almost 90 years later. (This is upsetting, but not shocking: Across the Raritan River, at Middlesex County College, unexploded bombs are still occasionally found, as during World War II the campus was the Raritan Arsenal, the barracks converted into the school's administration building. That was one "arsenal" that outlived its usefulness.)

Eighteen unidentified victims from the Morgan explosion were buried at the cemetery I mentioned on Ernston Road. At 3:06 British time, I arrived at the driveway. I know it's unlikely that any survivors of the explosion are still around 90 years after it happened, but surely there are descendants who still have a cloud over their families, as the Hillsborough survivors always will.

I said a prayer asking God to comfort the survivors of both tragedies.

As I moved on, I passed one of the schools where the remaining ordnance was found. It has a clock tower, and its clock was two minutes slow. It read 10:06. The very time (by our standards) that the Hillsborough match was stopped.

I managed to reach my office, literally walking on through the wind, walking on through the rain.

What happened at Morgan in 1918 was an accident, and could not have been foreseen. There was no one to punish, and the question of "Why?" was easy enough to answer. This remains untrue of Hillsborough in 1989. Will no one stand up and say, "I/We made a terrible mistake?"

The time for justice has long since come. It will never go until that justice is granted.

[Grinners89]

At 10:00 this morning -- 3:00 British time, 20 years to the minutes that the tragedy unfolded -- I was walking up Ernston Road in Sayreville, New Jersey, toward my office. A hearse passed by. A sign?

At that moment I realized where the hearse might be going. There's a cemetery on Ernston Road, and that cemetery has a monument to another tragedy.

During World War I, America built its first modern defense plants. One was the T.A. Gillespie Company Shell Loading Plant, in the Morgan section of Sayreville, on Raritan Bay near the Atlantic Ocean. On the night of October 4, 1918, it exploded, and since the company's employment records were among the things that were destroyed, and some people were simply vaporized, we don't know how many people died. We think it was over 100, which would surpass even the Hillsborough disaster. Over 300 buildings in Sayreville and neighboring South Amboy and Madison Township (since renamed Old Bridge) were destroyed. Over 60,000 people were evacuated due to the threat, which was realized, of further explosions.

As recently as 2007, unexploded munitions, flung in the original 1918 blast, were found at a school on Ernston Road, a mile away from the epicenter. Since another school was another mile down the road, they checked that school as well, and, sure enough, there was more. This is almost 90 years later. (This is upsetting, but not shocking: Across the Raritan River, at Middlesex County College, unexploded bombs are still occasionally found, as during World War II the campus was the Raritan Arsenal, the barracks converted into the school's administration building. That was one "arsenal" that outlived its usefulness.)

Eighteen unidentified victims from the Morgan explosion were buried at the cemetery I mentioned on Ernston Road. At 3:06 British time, I arrived at the driveway. I know it's unlikely that any survivors of the explosion are still around 90 years after it happened, but surely there are descendants who still have a cloud over their families, as the Hillsborough survivors always will.

I said a prayer asking God to comfort the survivors of both tragedies.

As I moved on, I passed one of the schools where the remaining ordnance was found. It has a clock tower, and its clock was two minutes slow. It read 10:06. The very time (by our standards) that the Hillsborough match was stopped.

I managed to reach my office, literally walking on through the wind, walking on through the rain.

What happened at Morgan in 1918 was an accident, and could not have been foreseen. There was no one to punish, and the question of "Why?" was easy enough to answer. This remains untrue of Hillsborough in 1989. Will no one stand up and say, "I/We made a terrible mistake?"

The time for justice has long since come. It will never go until that justice is granted.

Good post.

[Shay Z]

On behalf of the bigsoccer Real Madrid forum,

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/38/76672246_e551adb7cd.jpg

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and LFC fans around the world.

RIP 96.

[iCEMANGSCCC]

Watching the YNWA being sung with the balloons being released almost brought a tear to my eye. :(

Justice for the 96

[kopiteinkc]

Forgive me for re-posting, selfishly this helps me heal a little.

April 15, 1989 was surely the worst day of my life.

The night before I'd received a phone call from a mate of mine who I played in an amateur footy league with.

The night before an FA Cup semi final and there came the words I'd been waiting to hear. "I have a spare ticket. Do you wanna go the match tomorrow?"

Within an hour I was at Childwall Fiveways pub exchanging god knows how much money for a ticket from my mate. He was going on the coach and he had his own ticket for a while.

So I said I'd meet him at the ground and went to Lime Street the next morning to get the train to Sheffield.

I had got there bright and early to make sure I could get a ticket on the train.

At this time in my life I was teaching and I ran into one of the 6th formers (18 year olds for the uninitiated) from one of my history classes.

He was with his Dad and uncle and I sat with them on the train.

The chatter on the train was innocent enough. We were on the first train to leave and after reading the morning papers talk got around to where our tickets were for.

I was thrilled to have tickets for behind the goal. Even though they were cheaper I always preferred that to the side. That's were all the singing and atmosphere would be at its best.

As it turned out, Jamie (the student in my class) and his Dad and uncle had tickets for the side. Real seats not terraces like me.

Well they had a spare as well for someone who couldn't make it. As we got closer to Sheffield they convinced me to go in with them and we'd sell my ticket instead. That way they could sit with someone they knew and I could sell my ticket for behind the goal.

I felt a bit bad cos I'd arranged to meet a few of my mates there. But went along with their plan.

Eventually the train pulled into the station and we made our way towards Hillsborough.

Before long we saw throngs of Liverpool fans already crowded around the turnstiles and hundreds of people asking for spare tickets. Being an FA Cup semi final and the low allocation for tickets meant they were like goal dust.

A little kid came up to me asking for a spare and I said quietly, yeh I have one and we did our deal surrounded by a few people so there was no funny business.

We went on our way towards the turnstiles with our only outstanding business done. Now we were ready for the match itself ... or so we thought.

We got closer and closer to the turnstiles and it was incredibly crowded.

Now I had seen scenes similar to this many a time outside the Kop, but usually the police on horseback sort it out and everyone (more or less) gets in an orderly queue.

This was a nightmare, the copper on horseback didn't have a clue and was trying push us back with the nose of his horse. Causing mayhem as the massive horse was coming close to stepping on people.

We managed to edge our way through and about 45 minutes later had squeezed our way through to the front and got through the turnstiles. I had never taken so long to get into a match, especially one that was all ticket and sold out.

We made our way to our seats and immediatley I noticed how crowded the Leppings Lane end was. I couldn't believe it. It was heaving with fans who were already in full voice and swaying and rolling like the old days.

The outside edges looked much thinner crowd wise and seemed like everyone was trying to get a good view behind the goal.

I had been in there for the Sheff Wed league match the season before and it was the same then. We had my little nephew with me and we moved to the side closer to the corner flag to escape the crush. But to do this we had to go over the front of the terracing and actually go behind the goal and back in the terracing again because of the fatal divides in their terraces which didn't allow for natural sideways movement.

Eventually the teams came out and the match got underway. I have vivid memories of Peter Beardsley starting really well and maybe even hitting the bar. We won a corner I know that much and I noticed the Leppings Lane end just heaving with bodies and a few spilling out on to the narrow path behind the goal.

The police though were not allowing fans to come out of what was obvioulsy an overcrowded area and they were pushing the fans back in again.

Suddenly a fan broke loose and was on the pitch telling Liverpool players what was going on.

Notts Forest fans started booing and thought this was some sort of pitch invasion or hooligan activity. IT WAS NOT.

From there chaos broke out and fans spilled onto the pitch, the police doing nothing to help and still not seeing the seriousness of the situation lined up on the halfway line expecting a fight.

As this was going on of course the players were led off the pitch and total confusion reigned amongst the fans.

I stood helpless at the side of the pitch trying to understand what was going on.

Before long Liverpool fans being laid out on the pitch as other fans were making makeshift stretchers from the advert boards and carrying bodies across the pitch to the other end. The ambulances didn't arrive and never came all way the down the pitch.

We stood and watched this scene for as long as I remember and the sight of a Liverpool fan covered up with a blanket or coat over his head sticks in my memory like a hot poker in the eye. An arm lifelessly hanging from a makeshift stretcher and the audible moaning and wailing of injured fans.

Before long there was an announcement that the match was postponed and we were ushered out of the stadium by the police.

We were escorted back to the train station and suffered much abuse by Forest fans who really had no clue what was going on.

It was a horribly silent train ride back to Lime Street, with the only noise that of Police radios which updated the death count as we travelled home. 18, 21, 27, 43, 51, etc.

It was just awful.

I got home and jumped a cab to my older brother's house in Toxteth (my parents were visiting relatives down south at the the time). I collapsed at his house and visited Anfield with them the next day to lay some flowers and say a few words on the Kop.

I am not a religious person but pray or do whatever your own spiritual beliefs allow you to do today.

There is not a day goes by that I don't think about the lost 96 and wonder whether the little kid I sold my ticket to was amongst them.

[Indy footballer]

I'm not sure if anyone already asked but I was curious what the crowd was chanting at the Prime Minister's Rep's today. I couldn't make out the words.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

A Gunner's Perspective - Hillsborough, 20 Years On (http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1717/editorial/2009/04/15/1211466/hillsborough-20-years-on-a-rival-fans-perspective)
Twenty years ago today I travelled on the Piccadilly Line to Arsenal tube station to watch the Gunners take on struggling Newcastle United - knowing that, with title rivals Liverpool otherwise engaged in an FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest, George Graham’s side could extend their lead at the top of the old English First Division – a lead that the Merseyside Reds had been relentlessly narrowing in recent weeks. Kenny Dalglish's team hadn’t lost since the turn of the year and were suddenly on course for another domestic Double. An Arsenal win was therefore essential.

A couple of hours later, I and some 38,022 other souls left Highbury sombre and subdued – not by what we had seen at the Arsenal Stadium, but by what we had heard unfolding at another stadium, Hillsborough, 150 miles to the north. Events there had put our excitement about the 1988-89 title race into stark and dark perspective; had in fact altered our perceptions about even attending another football match.

At Highbury that day the Arsenal game got underway amid much tension, because the Gunners’ form had been stuttering and Liverpool had been taking full advantage. But as the game settled down after the tentative exchanges of the opening six or seven minutes, the stadium announcer came over the public address system. "We have a report of an incident at Hillsborough, in the Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest. It's believed there have been several fatalities".
There was a gasp of incredulity around the crowd at Highbury. I was stood, as usual, on the famous old North Bank terrace. As those around me turned to one another and began speculating on what sort of ‘incident’ it could possibly be, anyone with a radio was suddenly in demand.

The game in front of us continued, but it was difficult to give it undivided attention because new slivers of information, each bleaker than the last, were filtering across the terrace, scarcely believable yet reliably sourced from the BBC and therefore carrying the awful stamp of authenticity.

The atmosphere was at once muted and distracted, confused and concerned. More facts became apparent at half-time, though it would be much later before the full scale of the disaster became clear. What was certain was that of 25,000 Liverpool fans who’d gone to Sheffield to support their team against Forest, many – we didn’t know how many – had lost their lives. Died on the terraces. Crushed or asphyxiated. And we were standing on a similar terrace – albeit crucially without fences in front of us – trying to assimilate this news.

Brian Marwood scored the only goal at Highbury, Arsenal earned a vital victory, but there was only one story that evening. The crowd dispersed and I suspect most, like me, made their way to the nearest television to learn what had happened in Sheffield, and why.

The next few days and weeks were unlike any others in English football. As well as indescribable grief on Merseyside, disbelief quickly turned to anger not just in Liverpool but nationwide, and possibly for the first time, football fans the length and breadth of Britain were united. The sense of solidarity was tangible; tribal loyalties were temporarily put aside as fans realised the awful truth that – notwithstanding the specific circumstances outside the Leppings Lane end that triggered the disaster – the combination of official indifference, unsympathetic if not hostile policing and refusal to treat supporters as valued customers meant something equally horrific could have befallen any of us at any time at almost any stadium.

As the tributes and mementoes from fans of other clubs all over the country steadily added to the poignant but impressive shrine at Anfield, there was much confusion about what would happen next. Of course, Liverpool, with much dignity, were preoccupied with the funerals for the dead and the consoling of the bereaved, and they naturally suspended their fixtures – including the potentially decisive game against Arsenal at Anfield.

The Gunners themselves rightly rejected the Football League’s insensitive request to continue as normal, and cancelled their next game. They were determined not to seek any advantage, points-wise, from Liverpool’s terrible misfortune. In fact it was another 16 days before Arsenal appeared on a football pitch again.

And 35 days after Hillsborough, Liverpool themselves achieved what they had resolved to do, and won the FA Cup at Wembley in an all-Merseyside affair, honouring in some small way those who had died following them en-route to the final.

Six days after that, Arsenal were at Anfield for the final match of that emotional campaign. Liverpool were aiming to complete the Double; Arsenal to win their first title since 1971. How the drama on the pitch unfolded is another story, to be told on the anniversary of that epic match. But prior to kick-off, Arsenal presented a cheque for £30,000 to the Hillsborough Disaster Fund. And the Arsenal players emerged from the Anfield tunnel carrying large bouquets of flowers which they took to Liverpool supporters around the stadium. The rivalry was about to resume; but at that moment there was a rock-solid bond between opposing fans and clubs. Liverpool were deep in mourning; other fans felt and empathised with at least some of their grief.

Hillsborough Remembered (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5191835,00.html)
Thousands of people have gathered at Anfield to mark the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster which claimed the lives of 96 Liverpool supporters.

The Kop and the Centenary stands at Liverpool's Anfield Stadium were opened early for the official memorial service in remembrance of those who died at an FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest at Sheffield Wednesday's Hillsborough ground on Saturday 15th April 1989.

As numbers grew, part of the main stand was also opened to the public and, at 3.06pm, the exact time the referee blew the whistle and abandoned the FA Cup tie, a two-minute silence was held.

As the families of the victims took their places on the Kop, the crowd of up to 25,000 people gave them a huge round of applause.

There were also loud cheers and clapping for a group of Celtic fans who laid two banners on the Anfield turf emblazoned with "Justice for the 96" and "You'll never walk alone".

Club officials then took their seats, followed by members of Liverpool's Academy.

As Pepe Reina led the first team out, there were huge cheers and applause.

Rafa Benitez followed with his wife, Montse, coach Sammy Lee, Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard.

There were also cheers and applause for Everton's manager, David Moyes, and Kenny Dalglish, who gave a reading.

Opening the service the Bishop of Liverpool, the Rt Rev James Jones, said the tragedy "broke the heart but not the spirit" of the community.

He said: "On this, the 20th anniversary of the tragedy at Hillsborough, which broke the heart but not the spirit of our community, Her Majesty the Queen has asked me to say that her thoughts and prayers are with us and all those affected by the tragedy.

"For many here today it seems still like yesterday. Those we lost always in our minds.

"Never a day passes without a thought of what their tomorrow might have been, without that longing for justice for their sake as well as for ours."

As the names of the 96 victims were read out at the service a bell tolled, while the bells of Liverpool's two cathedrals also rang out.

The silence was also observed outside Hillsborough and in Nottingham, and was followed by a round of applause from those inside Anfield.

LFC.tv - 20 Years On, 18 Emotional Features (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N164023090415-1935.htm)
To mark the 20th anniversary of Hillsborough, Liverpoolfc.tv have been publishing a wide-range of emotional and reflective articles in tribute to the 96. If you haven't had time to surf the website today, here's a complete round-up of our coverage.

YNWA!

[liverbird]

Just got done watching the service -- wiping my eyes and posting.

I am eternally grateful that I support Liverpool Football Club. Form is temporary, class is permanent. YNWA

[Andy Bennett]

I'm not sure if anyone already asked but I was curious what the crowd was chanting at the Prime Minister's Rep's today. I couldn't make out the words.
They were shouting 'Justice for the 96'. The families have been asking for 20 years for a full investigation as to exactly what happened before, during and after the event.

The thing to bear in mind about this is that everyone knows what happened in broad terms. There was poor crowd management by the police which allowed too many people to go into one specific part of the ground, (which wouldn't have mattered if grounds in those days didn't pen people in like cattle), and the people at the back crushed the people at the front. The problem is all the stuff that went on around what happened.

For example...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_Disaster#The_crush

As these events unfolded, some police officers were still being deployed to make a cordon three-quarters of the way down the pitch, with the aim of preventing Liverpool supporters reaching the Nottingham Forest supporters at the opposite end of the stadium. Some fans tried to break through the police cordon to ferry injured supporters to waiting ambulances, and were forcibly turned back. (44 ambulances had arrived at the stadium, but police prevented all but one from entering, and that one was forced to turn back due to the vast number of people who needed help.)

There should have been a full public enquiry into what happened but Margaret Thatcher's conservative government decided to have an enquiry that was very restricted in it's remit so that, for example, it was decided that everyone had died by 3:15pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7998231.stm

But many of the bereaved families believe their loved ones were still alive and perhaps, given proper medical assistance, could have survived.


South Yorkshire Police fully accept their responsibility for the Hillsborough disaster
Ch Con Meredyd Hughes, South Yorkshire Police

When South Yorkshire ambulance driver Tony Edwards reached the dead and dying in his ambulance it was already 1537 BST.

"Well, it's a time of convenience because what that does, it rules out a proper investigation because I don't exist - I never came on the pitch [according to the inquiry]," he told the BBC.

"I was not called to the Taylor inquiry because if everyone's dead at three fifteen why do they need to speak to me?"

Well, you can read the material yourself and see what you think but, IMO, the bottom line is that Thatcher hated football, (she'd been the one to push for the complete ban of all English clubs from Europe after Heysel don't forget), along with anything else to do with the working classes. Also, her beloved 'Sun' newspaper, (a strong supporter of the tories), was the one getting it in the neck for the lies they told about what happened and whose fault it was. Couple that with the fact that the police, (who had helped her smash the miners strike a few years before), meant that there was no way she was going to let the truth come out about what happened.

Andy Burnham was, (maybe rather unfairly), the one in the frame as representing the current government so he got the barracking. I think he was there to represent, not the government, (as he rather idiotically said)... but the people, the rest of us, in other words.

Still, maybe some good can come from it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8001243.stm

This might sound a bit daft coming from a Chelsea supporter, (and also bearing in mind it was a long, long time ago), but the Hillsborough disaster and The Scum's, (sorry... Sun's), reaction to it are part of the reason I won't take Sky's, (Fox's), TV sports service. There are many other reasons but that's a significant part of it, tbh. I despise them with a passion as you might be able to tell.

[liverbird]

They were shouting 'Justice for the 96'. The families have been asking for 20 years for a full investigation as to exactly what happened before, during and after the event.

The thing to bear in mind about this is that everyone knows what happened in broad terms. There was poor crowd management by the police which allowed too many people to go into one specific part of the ground, (which wouldn't have mattered if grounds in those days didn't pen people in like cattle), and the people at the back crushed the people at the front. The problem is all the stuff that went on around what happened.

For example...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_Disaster#The_crush

As these events unfolded, some police officers were still being deployed to make a cordon three-quarters of the way down the pitch, with the aim of preventing Liverpool supporters reaching the Nottingham Forest supporters at the opposite end of the stadium. Some fans tried to break through the police cordon to ferry injured supporters to waiting ambulances, and were forcibly turned back. (44 ambulances had arrived at the stadium, but police prevented all but one from entering, and that one was forced to turn back due to the vast number of people who needed help.)

There should have been a full public enquiry into what happened but Margaret Thatcher's conservative government decided to have an enquiry that was very restricted in it's remit so that, for example, it was decided that everyone had died by 3:15pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7998231.stm

But many of the bereaved families believe their loved ones were still alive and perhaps, given proper medical assistance, could have survived.


South Yorkshire Police fully accept their responsibility for the Hillsborough disaster
Ch Con Meredyd Hughes, South Yorkshire Police

When South Yorkshire ambulance driver Tony Edwards reached the dead and dying in his ambulance it was already 1537 BST.

"Well, it's a time of convenience because what that does, it rules out a proper investigation because I don't exist - I never came on the pitch [according to the inquiry]," he told the BBC.

"I was not called to the Taylor inquiry because if everyone's dead at three fifteen why do they need to speak to me?"

Well, you can read the material yourself and see what you think but, IMO, the bottom line is that Thatcher hated football, (she'd been the one to push for the complete ban of all English clubs from Europe after Heysel don't forget), along with anything else to do with the working classes. Also, her beloved 'Sun' newspaper, (a strong supporter of the tories), was the one getting it in the neck for the lies they told about what happened and whose fault it was. Couple that with the fact that the police, (who had helped her smash the miners strike a few years before), meant that there was no way she was going to let the truth come out about what happened.

Andy Burnham was, (maybe rather unfairly), the one in the frame as representing the current government so he got the barracking. I think he was there to represent, not the government, (as he rather idiotically said)... but the people, the rest of us, in other words.

Still, maybe some good can come from it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8001243.stm

This might sound a bit daft coming from a Chelsea supporter, (and also bearing in mind it was a long, long time ago), but the Hillsborough disaster and The Scum's, (sorry... Sun's), reaction to it are part of the reason I won't take Sky's, (Fox's), TV sports service. There are many other reasons but that's a significant part of it, tbh. I despise them with a passion as you might be able to tell.

Thank you Andy --accurate synopsis from what I've read.

[Matt Clark]

Hard day yesterday. Very sombre mood in the city. Good turnout at Anfield today - the best thing (if there's anything that can be deemed positive) about the 20th anniversary is that it has driven the media to give this annual remembrance due prominence for a change. Of course, the full independent enquiry that we all want would be an even better way to give this issue the profile it warrants, but our government contents itself with sending patsies up to Liverpool to take the flak for their continued indifference.

[Andy Bennett]

... but our government contents itself with sending patsies up to Liverpool to take the flak for their continued indifference.
Do you think they were expecting that? It didn't look like it to me. It looked like he was genuinely shocked. I tend to think if they thought that would be the response they'd probably not have sent anyone along as has been the case in the past.

Frankly, it's pretty unusual to send a government representative along to such a function. It hasn't happened with the remembrance services for the Valley Parade fire as far as I'm aware.

Actually, just reading stuff on the intertubes there are more than a few similarities between the two incidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford_City_disaster#Footage

American television network FOX TV controversially aired footage of the disaster in the programme When Good Times Go Bad 3. They incorrectly blamed supporters for deliberately starting the fire; and the program used punning language such as "as rabid as American fans can get, they can't hold a candle to soccer fans around the world".

Looks like they've been taking lessons from their British News International colleagues, eh? :(

They were both old stadiums with the fans pened in like cattle.

There were no extinguishers in the stand's passageway for fear of vandalism, and one spectator ran to the club house to find one, but was overcome by smoke and others trying to escape. Supporters either ran upwards to the back of the stand or downwards to the pitch to escape. Most of the exits at the back were either locked or shut, and there were no stewards present to open them, but seven were either forced or found open.[8][10] Three men smashed down one door and at least one exit was opened by people outside.[10][15] Geoffrey Mitchell said: "There was panic as fans stampeded to an exit which was padlocked. Two or three burly men put their weight against it and smashed the gate open. Otherwise I would not have been able to get out."[15] At the front of the stand, men threw children over the wall to help them escape. Most of those who escaped onto the pitch were saved.[10]

As I mentioned above, the real difference isn't in what happened in the incident, (in general terms, I mean), as what happened during and afterwards. In the Valley parade disaster the police, generally, tried to help. In the Hillsborough one they partly caused it, then made it worse, then told a load of lies about what happened.